Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 09:40:06 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 402 Go Down Print
Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071705 times)
Nevermore
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4740


Reply #385 on: February 03, 2009, 01:25:57 PM

Since this is EA, beta will start on launch day.

Over and out.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #386 on: February 03, 2009, 02:27:48 PM

Y'all are assuming EA won't just flush the project down the drain like they have every other MMO to date. Times are tough, EA is flushing jobs and companies and I'd bet against Bioware: Austin, myself.  "They want how much money and how much longer? Fuck it *fa-woosh*"

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737

the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #387 on: February 03, 2009, 03:01:05 PM

Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #388 on: February 03, 2009, 04:42:31 PM

afaik, Perpetual was only connected to Star Trek Online. Had nothing to do with SW:TOR they did.

BioWare licenses Perpetual Third Party Tech

Perpetual was going to be building MMOs, licensing its tools to other companies and several other noble schemes. BioWare could have bought it; I'm not sure what happened to the assets when P2 went under.
Ah, corrected I am.
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #389 on: February 03, 2009, 05:09:33 PM

It is interesting that SWOR appears to be developed using a huge number of third party applications. Hero Engine, Perpetual's thing, Unreal 3 Engine (I think), plus probably stuff like SpeedTree and so on. This could mean they get on the shelf quicker, but there really hasn't been a good track record of MMOs using third party engines and succeeding.

I think it is the way of the future, so someone will get it right some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #390 on: February 03, 2009, 06:03:34 PM

This could be the game to get it right.  They have enough vets that they know what tools they need and figured they can either try and reinvent the wheel again, or carefully select what the need and get to work.  At least in theory.

While I want this to be a good game, there's enough cynic in me to believe it will crash and burn like all the rest.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #391 on: February 03, 2009, 06:39:55 PM

This could be the game to get it right.  They have enough vets that they know what tools they need and figured they can either try and reinvent the wheel again, or carefully select what the need and get to work.  At least in theory.

While I want this to be a good game, there's enough cynic in me to believe it will crash and burn like all the rest.

Except that in the MMO market a team of vets just seems to increase the magnitude of Fail.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #392 on: February 03, 2009, 07:03:26 PM

It is interesting that SWOR appears to be developed using a huge number of third party applications. Hero Engine, Perpetual's thing, Unreal 3 Engine (I think), plus probably stuff like SpeedTree and so on. This could mean they get on the shelf quicker, but there really hasn't been a good track record of MMOs using third party engines and succeeding.

I think it is the way of the future, so someone will get it right some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

A good chunk of MMOs use Unreal tech and non-proprietary billing and account systems. From a gameplay standpoint, yea, I don't see Perpetual's Engine, Big World, Multiverse or any of the few dozen other engines-awaiting-games actually being attached to big productions that were successful. But it really depends on what parts of what engine you use... and of course the talent of the designers to be right and the skill of the producers to be real  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #393 on: February 03, 2009, 09:10:16 PM

Except that in the MMO market a team of vets just seems to increase the magnitude of Fail.
Thus my cynicism.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192


Reply #394 on: February 05, 2009, 02:25:35 AM

A good chunk of MMOs use Unreal tech and non-proprietary billing and account systems. From a gameplay standpoint, yea, I don't see Perpetual's Engine, Big World, Multiverse or any of the few dozen other engines-awaiting-games actually being attached to big productions that were successful. But it really depends on what parts of what engine you use... and of course the talent of the designers to be right and the skill of the producers to be real  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I have a fair bit of faith in Unreal.  It's largest issue is that the subtractive editing and manual delineation of LOD zones that it's editor uses is more suited for tightly designing small spaces rather than large worlds.  On the flip-side, you can do all sorts of wonderful optimization which would make shit like Dalaran and Shattrath in WoW less likely to be a clusterfuck waiting to happen.
Rake
Terracotta Army
Posts: 94


Reply #395 on: February 07, 2009, 11:33:43 AM

Just out of curiosity, where did Blizzard get most of their team for WoW from?

Were they already the staff that they had making their previous games, or did they employ vets from other MMOs?
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #396 on: February 07, 2009, 11:36:23 AM

They employed a few former EQ poopsockers, I know that much. Otherwise, no idea.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Stormwaltz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2918


Reply #397 on: February 07, 2009, 12:38:34 PM

I have a fair bit of faith in Unreal.  It's largest issue is that the subtractive editing and manual delineation of LOD zones that it's editor uses is more suited for tightly designing small spaces rather than large worlds.

As a rendering engine, it's also extraordinarily bad at rendering hair. Epic has no out-of-the-box solution for it. Ever noticed that all the UE3-powered games of the last few years feature characters with shaved heads? That's why.

That probably wouldn't fly in an MMG, where people love their customization.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
tmp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4257

POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #398 on: February 07, 2009, 02:19:37 PM

As a rendering engine, it's also extraordinarily bad at rendering hair. Epic has no out-of-the-box solution for it. Ever noticed that all the UE3-powered games of the last few years feature characters with shaved heads? That's why.

That probably wouldn't fly in an MMG, where people love their customization.
So far though hair in MMO (heck, most games for that matter) are typically nothing but regular textured polygons with some alpha channel thrown in. Seems to be good enough for people, and nothing even a basic rendering engine cannot handle.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #399 on: February 07, 2009, 03:24:28 PM

God forbid having to write a few lines of code and perhaps a shader.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #400 on: February 07, 2009, 03:33:02 PM

God forbid having to write a few lines of code and perhaps a shader.

Wait, are you saying it's not that hardOh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

(I kid I kid!)
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #401 on: February 07, 2009, 06:45:02 PM

It is interesting that SWOR appears to be developed using a huge number of third party applications. Hero Engine, Perpetual's thing, Unreal 3 Engine (I think), plus probably stuff like SpeedTree and so on. This could mean they get on the shelf quicker, but there really hasn't been a good track record of MMOs using third party engines and succeeding.

I think it is the way of the future, so someone will get it right some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

A good chunk of MMOs use Unreal tech and non-proprietary billing and account systems. From a gameplay standpoint, yea, I don't see Perpetual's Engine, Big World, Multiverse or any of the few dozen other engines-awaiting-games actually being attached to big productions that were successful. But it really depends on what parts of what engine you use... and of course the talent of the designers to be right and the skill of the producers to be real  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


I have a fair bit of faith in Unreal.  It's largest issue is that the subtractive editing and manual delineation of LOD zones that it's editor uses is more suited for tightly designing small spaces rather than large worlds.  On the flip-side, you can do all sorts of wonderful optimization which would make shit like Dalaran and Shattrath in WoW less likely to be a clusterfuck waiting to happen.

BSP is not really only in unreal. Tons of games, and MMO's use it. They just happen to have a sweet integrated editor. Shit, even torque does now (always had the use, just not the editor, for that, you used unreal, QuArK, or other)...However, contrary to your observation, its not relegated to only indoor spaces. So, like i said, its a technique, not a limitation, as each engine uses it differently. Its quite possibly one of the oldest techniques. Source Engine uses it too.

I do however recall one is subtractive, as in the entire "space" is already "filled" and the other is additive, as in you make volume in a void. I think it was the diffrance between quake, and unreal IIRCC.

And Speedtree is used in just about every dam thing. Cuse its  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

BSP for dummies, just in case. And a fantastic presentations written by Carl Shimer.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 06:56:12 PM by Mrbloodworth »

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #402 on: February 07, 2009, 09:33:29 PM

Wait, are you saying it's not that hardOh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

(I kid I kid!)
*bonk*

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192


Reply #403 on: February 08, 2009, 12:52:31 AM

I do however recall one is subtractive, as in the entire "space" is already "filled" and the other is additive, as in you make volume in a void. I think it was the diffrance between quake, and unreal IIRCC.

This is what I was getting at to an extent.  They both use BSP, but the subtractive scheme tends to be better suited for interior stuff, and the additive for exterior stuff, because when you are building an outside area it's easier to fill a void with stuff, rather than carefully delineating the void and then populating it.  Conversely, subtracting rather than adding tunnels is intuitive and subtractive schemes makes it harder to create a hall of mirrors or missing geometry that players can fall through.

Also, Unreal makes really fucking nice usage of 2D planes and actors to create zones which dynamically alter their LOD properties based on player position.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #404 on: February 08, 2009, 04:28:26 AM

I didn't mean to pick on Stormwaltz, I've also heard that Unreal is really really bad at hair. I just find it funny that people expect so much of a game in a box that they can't put in some effort and make hair look good on their own.

Then again Unreal is likely very complicated and changing it significantly is quite painful from what I understand. I guess that's why all Unreal Engine games look kind of the same.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #405 on: February 08, 2009, 06:57:27 AM

I can't imagine anyone wanting to... say... form a guild in "KOTOR3 with co-op fights and a graphical lobby" or what the fuck ever. People are going to play through all the story in the free month and we're going to see another "sold a million boxes, woops 20% retention rate" post-WoW flop.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #406 on: February 08, 2009, 07:09:44 AM

I can't imagine anyone wanting to... say... form a guild in "KOTOR3 with co-op fights and a graphical lobby" or what the fuck ever. People are going to play through all the story in the free month and we're going to see another "sold a million boxes, woops 20% retention rate" post-WoW flop.

This is pretty much what I expect. 
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #407 on: February 12, 2009, 12:38:36 PM

If they try to do WoW, it's already a flop.  Trying to pull off a 10-man raid scenario in Star Wars just results in stupidity.  A ten-minute-long fight of a 'boss' being tanked by a jedi while soldiers pump a few thousand blaster shots into it is ridiculous.  Just about any modern or future setting game (or long long ago setting with super high tech) isn't going to follow WoW's lead very well, because you reach a point in fairly short order where anything should probably fall down after taking more than three bullets to the face and having a laser sword slice through its entire body four times.
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #408 on: February 12, 2009, 12:45:26 PM

If they try to do WoW, it's already a flop.  Trying to pull off a 10-man raid scenario in Star Wars just results in stupidity.  A ten-minute-long fight of a 'boss' being tanked by a jedi while soldiers pump a few thousand blaster shots into it is ridiculous.  Just about any modern or future setting game (or long long ago setting with super high tech) isn't going to follow WoW's lead very well, because you reach a point in fairly short order where anything should probably fall down after taking more than three bullets to the face and having a laser sword slice through its entire body four times.

Yeah, in my opinion games with more modern (or futuristic) weaponry would do well to organize "raid" content much more like survival type scenarios, or long assaults on a dug in position.   The tactics would involved dealing with large numbers of different enemies, rather than one big "boss," which as you described doesn't lend itself to these kind of weapons.

These would probably make for more dynamic and interesting combats anyway, rather than the only Tank + Spank (plus some gimmick mechanic), which dominates WoW even now.
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #409 on: February 12, 2009, 02:09:48 PM

If they try to do WoW, it's already a flop.  Trying to pull off a 10-man raid scenario in Star Wars just results in stupidity.  A ten-minute-long fight of a 'boss' being tanked by a jedi while soldiers pump a few thousand blaster shots into it is ridiculous.  Just about any modern or future setting game (or long long ago setting with super high tech) isn't going to follow WoW's lead very well, because you reach a point in fairly short order where anything should probably fall down after taking more than three bullets to the face and having a laser sword slice through its entire body four times.

As opposed to setting a gnoll on fire and then slicing through it's body with a magic sword a half dozen times... and it's not dead yeat?



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #410 on: February 12, 2009, 03:18:21 PM

As opposed to setting a gnoll on fire and then slicing through it's body with a magic sword a half dozen times... and it's not dead yeat?

Yeah.  Grab a broadsword and go out and try to kill a bear with it, see how fast that goes.  Well, it's liable to go pretty quick, just not in your favor, but still.  Hacking on a tough critter with a piece of metal can at least sort of believably take a while.  But not a lot of things can take full-auto blasts from modern firearms and be a threat for more than a second or two.  A Star Wars 'raid' would have to be a full-scale battle, with a cast of hundreds and whatnot, with more focus on numbers than on having 'bosses'.  Quests can have tough opponents where the game designers can force a 1-on-1 duel, or a 1-on-a-few-people fight in the case of super uber force users who could realistically fend off three or four players.  But even a great jedi isn't gonna be able to block the shots coming from twenty people gunning them down at once, and having them be able to soak up that much damage would wind up being ridiculous.  Ditto for the inevitable Starcraft MMORPG, in order to not be silly it would need to be more akin to Planetside than WoW.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #411 on: February 12, 2009, 03:55:44 PM

While the bear is on fire and yours is a magic sword?  awesome, for real
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #412 on: February 12, 2009, 04:04:54 PM

A Star Wars 'raid' would have to be a full-scale battle, with a cast of hundreds and whatnot, with more focus on numbers than on having 'bosses'.

So obvious, but will probably be forgotten in the implementation of this game.  undecided
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #413 on: February 12, 2009, 04:38:57 PM

We're trained by Bosses, but we need to drop that noise for raids. 40 people show up there should be 80 enemies that need to be cut through. I'd rather see raids borrow from some of the larger PvP encounter conventions, except of course with AI that be mowed down for the bling.
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #414 on: February 12, 2009, 05:13:41 PM

That doesn't work when you have aggro mechanics and AOE damage that can have 3 guys take out all the 80 mobs.

A game without AOE would be interesting.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #415 on: February 12, 2009, 05:18:00 PM

Yea, that's sort of a requirement.
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #416 on: February 12, 2009, 05:39:18 PM

How about we not have raids?  Is there anything that can retain people endgame other than raids and/or random PvP gankery?  Maybe not, I guess...

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #417 on: February 12, 2009, 08:05:31 PM

Well, 'raid' is being used solely in the sense of 'large scale event' when I use the word, not 'EQ-style trash/boss setup'.  Grabbing 30 of your closest friends and assaulting some Sith base is a big, involved proposition, rather raid-ish in scope, and should be a great deal more fun than what we're getting today.
SnakeCharmer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3807


Reply #418 on: February 12, 2009, 09:05:30 PM

A Star Wars 'raid' would have to be a full-scale battle, with a cast of hundreds and whatnot, with more focus on numbers than on having 'bosses'.

So obvious, but will probably be forgotten in the implementation of this game.  undecided

Which is why the AI Director from Left 4 Dead would be spectacular for 'raid' encounters for MMOs.  No more quest walkthroughs, enemies that vary/scale according to skill.

Le awesome.  And it will probably never happen
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #419 on: February 12, 2009, 09:59:46 PM

A Star Wars 'raid' would have to be a full-scale battle, with a cast of hundreds and whatnot, with more focus on numbers than on having 'bosses'.

So obvious, but will probably be forgotten in the implementation of this game.  undecided

Which is why the AI Director from Left 4 Dead would be spectacular for 'raid' encounters for MMOs.  No more quest walkthroughs, enemies that vary/scale according to skill.

Le awesome.  And it will probably never happen

I mean, it COULD happen, but I actually don't think the majority of the playerbase would want it to happen.  The raiding/end gaming people enjoy the meta game of theorycrafting fights.  While it would certainly be appealing to just have encounters where you show up, go and are surprised,  I don't think it would actually go over all that well with the community.  Think of all the bitching that happens already when an encounter comes around with too many "random" elements.  People get pissed off that they died to random element X that they could NOT POSSIBLY HAVE AVOIDED OMFG!!!, and it eventually gets toned way down or nerfed into oblivion.
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 402 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC