Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 04:03:18 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR 0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 402 Go Down Print
Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071997 times)
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #70 on: October 24, 2008, 01:04:21 PM

Quote
The game could still be crap, but it would be BioWare crap, made by many of the same people who brought you BG, NWN, KotOR, and Jade.

Don't try to fleece us, Stormwaltz. Please :(

Edit: In fact, until it's a success, it's probably smart to remove yourself from the direct line of fire. I have a feeling, from everything said - particularly that bigger than WoW shit, that there will be LOTS of collateral damage.
shiznitz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268

the plural of mangina


Reply #71 on: October 24, 2008, 01:57:07 PM

Back to the subject of graphics, those images linked are good enough to keep me interested. There is no need for games to go all-hyper detailed. It didn't help AoC.

I have never played WoW.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11839


Reply #72 on: October 24, 2008, 02:09:55 PM

Will pistol damage stack with rifle damage?

Or would that conflict with Star Wars canon now?




Anyhow, 'story-based MMOG' sounds too much like Guild Wars PvE to get excited. (I'm guessing the pvp element will also be Guild Wars style sport-PvP)

I never really understand how anyone expects story-based to work in an environment where you are interacting with thousands of people who all have the same role in the same story.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527


Reply #73 on: October 24, 2008, 04:35:13 PM

Maybe they're thinking of making it like WoW's "story":  players get involved in the many subplots (dragons infiltrating Stormwind, king kidnapped, the Thrall subplots, the many subplots going on with pretty much each zone and/or dungeon and its boss) and they get lore bits and plot info as they grind the NPCs.  But as far as the main story:  the re-opening of the portal, the resurgence of the BEs, trolls, and (soon) the Scourge, that's handled via periodic expansions.

I mean, expansions are a given, right?

Anyway, judging by how Episodes 1 - 3 were, "a zillion subplots" seems to resonate with George Lucas (and he just couldn't cram everything he wanted into 3 2-hr movies, but it's possible to cram into a MMO without skimping on the narrative of each subplot).  So, I mean, the Death Star will be frozen in space after having just destroyed Alderaan, grave threat, no hope, and all that, and until the expansion hits we'll just be the thousands of Bothans that die to acquire its schematic.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #74 on: October 24, 2008, 04:37:31 PM

the thousands dozens of Bothans that die to acquire its schematic.

FIFY.

I have nothing else to add  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #75 on: October 24, 2008, 05:54:58 PM

"Story-based" says to me that they are going to use that as an excuse to not make a good games system that will be fun once you run out of story content.

See: Mass Effect.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Hayduke
Terracotta Army
Posts: 560


Reply #76 on: October 24, 2008, 07:34:58 PM

Story-based mmo sounds to me like DDO.  Just with a very slightly less swamp poop IP and a mostly single player based game with an excuse for micropayments to avoid software piracy.  But I'm probably really far off-base.
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #77 on: October 24, 2008, 07:41:23 PM

Story-based mmo sounds to me like DDO.  Just with a very slightly less swamp poop IP and a mostly single player based game with an excuse for micropayments to avoid software piracy.  But I'm probably really far off-base.

DnD is probably the closest you'll ever come to an IP that you don't have to shoehorn into a DIKU based mmo.

Star Wars, on the other hand, is just a couple bantha tracks behind Startrek and it's teleporters and make-stuff-ators.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 07:46:44 PM by Goreschach »
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #78 on: October 24, 2008, 09:50:51 PM

Don't:

launch the game if it lacks the 'stars' and 'wars' of the IP.

I know some people loved SWG, but it was one of the worst adaptions of the IP that it possibly could have been.

Oh, and 'story-based'? No-one cares if the controls suck and the classes are completely unbalanced.

Stormwaltz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2918


Reply #79 on: October 25, 2008, 12:14:55 AM


Don't try to fleece us, Stormwaltz. Please :(

I don't want to. I only want to correct this rumor that the team doesn't include anyone from what's traditionally considered "BioWare."

I honestly have no idea what the game will look like in the end. I only know what it looks like now. I can't comment on that, and it obviously still requires a great deal of polish.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
taolurker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1460


Reply #80 on: October 25, 2008, 12:18:55 AM

Alpha invites how soon?

That is the best thing you can do to appease this crowd.

If there's one for me, then you will have 700 word bug reports to look through too.

PS: Get some more community people and forum moderators ASAP.


I used to write for extinct gaming sites
details available here (unused blog about page)
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #81 on: October 25, 2008, 01:26:24 AM

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=265389&page=2

I can't help but point out this gem: 

Quote

That's no longer the case, says Erickson - and as a result, the class narratives in SWTOR are "the most unique stories we've ever told". What's more, even if you play through the entire game as a Jedi, then do it all again as a Sith, "You will not see one repeated piece of content. Not one quest, not one line of dialogue, nothing."


 awesome, for real  I almost feel like I should pay the devs a subscription fee just to watch their goals get cut from release, one by one.

EDIT:  Article also says that when you have a group encounter, you don't even have to get a full group- AI can fill in missing slots.  This is sounding less and less like an MMO all the time and more like GW or Diablo. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:31:13 AM by Triforcer »

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #82 on: October 25, 2008, 01:32:50 AM

From the same article:

Quote
We're not talking about any of that today, of course. The even bigger questions, such as whether complex storylines and AI buddies will work in MMOs, won't be answered until the game is released - and that could be years from now.

SWOR, the hottest MMO of 2011!  why so serious?

Here is the rule of MMO marketing: show, don't tell. Until you can put it up on the screen and we can see how it plays, it is all hype that is just going to end up strangling your product under the weight of expectations.


Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #83 on: October 25, 2008, 01:49:41 AM

From the same article:

Quote
We're not talking about any of that today, of course. The even bigger questions, such as whether complex storylines and AI buddies will work in MMOs, won't be answered until the game is released - and that could be years from now.

SWOR, the hottest MMO of 2011!  why so serious?

Here is the rule of MMO marketing: show, don't tell. Until you can put it up on the screen and we can see how it plays, it is all hype that is just going to end up strangling your product under the weight of expectations.



That was the reporter's musing, not the dev's (at least the way I read that article).  I continue to maintain this is much farther along than anyone here thinks.  Didn't Stormwaltz, before the announcement, confirm that whatever MMO they were developing was currently playable, at least in some alpha fashion?

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #84 on: October 25, 2008, 02:10:59 AM


SWOR, the hottest MMO of 2011!  why so serious?

Am I the only one that hates the acronym SWTOR? You can't pronounce it, and it's too long to spell out. We should all start using SWOR.

KOTORO, however, was the best mmo name yet.
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #85 on: October 25, 2008, 03:47:22 AM

We should just keep calling it KOTORO, maybe it'll stick.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #86 on: October 25, 2008, 04:12:41 AM

Alpha invites how soon?

That is the best thing you can do to appease this crowd.
God no. They can't avoid veterans getting in to the game. But no way should a company expedite entry for a group that has a long track record of turning on those games either by not buying the box or not lasting the first month. Then add to that the perfect storm of it-needs-to-be-better-than-SWG, MMO, and EA.

Nah. They need to run the other way  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #87 on: October 25, 2008, 04:54:35 AM

I am already having fun on the boards.  When I explained to an old SWG pre-beta board vet that I was a college "sophomore" at that time, the boards changed it to "sop****ore."  Its good to see that the Galaxy-spanning war won't be marred by naughty language. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #88 on: October 25, 2008, 05:30:01 AM

From the same article:

Quote
We're not talking about any of that today, of course. The even bigger questions, such as whether complex storylines and AI buddies will work in MMOs, won't be answered until the game is released - and that could be years from now.

SWOR, the hottest MMO of 2011!  why so serious?

Here is the rule of MMO marketing: show, don't tell. Until you can put it up on the screen and we can see how it plays, it is all hype that is just going to end up strangling your product under the weight of expectations.

That was the reporter's musing, not the dev's (at least the way I read that article).  I continue to maintain this is much farther along than anyone here thinks.  Didn't Stormwaltz, before the announcement, confirm that whatever MMO they were developing was currently playable, at least in some alpha fashion?

I can accept that Bioware might have a playable engine, or at least one that works well enough in some areas to show off.

However, look at what they are promising:

 - a completely unique, distinctive story for each class (although if the classes are "Jedi" and "Sith", maybe that won't be an issue)

 - massive worlds and numerous races that fit with the SW mythos

 - a companion system that interacts with the player and reacts to what they do

 - irreversible choices for characters, so that when a player goes down a certain path, they'll have to make some decisions; this means that multiple paths per class will need to be developed, so that players can actually experience the different alternatives

 - plus all the usual game systems that Bioware didn't want to discuss

In their own words, SWOR is the biggest game they've ever done. Working engine is great, but there is a lot of stuff to add to it to create the MMO they are talking about.

eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11839


Reply #89 on: October 25, 2008, 07:13:04 AM

- irreversible choices for characters, so that when a player goes down a certain path, they'll have to make some decisions;

Irreversible choices, that's worked ever so well in previous mmogs....


Quote
In their own words, SWOR is the biggest game they've ever done. Working engine is great, but there is a lot of stuff to add to it to create the MMO they are talking about.

tbh, those examples just sound like the usual fluff statements to me.

My guess; Bioware haven't even decided how any of this is really going to work.


The fact that they say it is 'currently playable' just means they've bought an engine and installed it.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #90 on: October 25, 2008, 07:29:01 AM

Exactly.  I'm not worried about a late release date because of those features, since they are crack fantasies and will be cut (probably sooner than later). 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #91 on: October 25, 2008, 07:32:13 AM

What features? There's none detailed to any sufficiency to have an expectation about, good or bad.
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #92 on: October 25, 2008, 07:51:27 AM

The feature of every class having a completely separate content experience, and (according to a couple interviews) the fact that this game won't have any MMO quests in the traditional sense (the exact quote was "you'll never walk into a cantina and have a stranger ask you to rescue his cat"). 

Unless Jedi and Sith are the ONLY classes, there is simply no way that the first will happen.  You can NEVER create enough static content to satisfy everyone and keep everyone occupied (at least, when you expect said people to come back month after month and pay you money).  For SWTOR to base an MMO around doing this is very troubling, given most people just want to click through quest text anyway.

Most single player RPGs give us (at most) a few dozen hours of content, and they are going to create 10 or 12 separate single-player games and keep patching in new content in a manner that nobody finishes their content?  Maybe the Defense Department could do that if it threw its budget at it, but even EA will fail.   

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
lesion
Moderator
Posts: 783


Reply #93 on: October 25, 2008, 08:15:53 AM

Swuh-tor, philistines.

steam|a grue \[T]/
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11839


Reply #94 on: October 25, 2008, 08:36:44 AM

  Maybe the Defense Department could do that if it threw its budget at it, but even EA will fail.   

Even EA?

You speak as if EA's involvement is a plus.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #95 on: October 25, 2008, 09:04:14 AM

The feature of every class having a completely separate content experience, and (according to a couple interviews) the fact that this game won't have any MMO quests in the traditional sense (the exact quote was "you'll never walk into a cantina and have a stranger ask you to rescue his cat"). 

That's not a feature. It's a system. Its success will rest mostly on content. As a system, what they've said so far barely qualifies as the title of the initial email that talks about the eventual need for a basic scoping document. There's so little that we know at this point the only expectation is whatever each of us imagine it could maybe someday turn out to be.

That of course is the problem itself and the reason saying nothing at all is better than the bits they've said so far.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11839


Reply #96 on: October 25, 2008, 09:12:16 AM

That of course is the problem itself and the reason saying nothing at all is better than the bits they've said so far.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but this is Star Wars, so they have to give us plenty of time to reach page 100.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #97 on: October 25, 2008, 10:57:26 AM

I've said before that I don't really want a world, I want a game pretending to be a world. This super-instanced Guild Wars shit doesn't even do an adequate job of pretending.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
SnakeCharmer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3807


Reply #98 on: October 27, 2008, 01:53:39 PM

New art interview.  One thing stands out:

Quote
Will the game be able to scale up if you have a really kick ass computer?

Ideally, I want to scale up frame rate. If you have the biggest, baddest machine, you should be able to run at some pretty high frames per second.

So basically, it will be crap graphics at 140 fps.  Awesome.
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #99 on: October 27, 2008, 04:47:18 PM

New art interview.  One thing stands out:

Quote
Will the game be able to scale up if you have a really kick ass computer?

Ideally, I want to scale up frame rate. If you have the biggest, baddest machine, you should be able to run at some pretty high frames per second.

So basically, it will be crap graphics at 140 fps.  Awesome.

Or maybe they're just not even trying to hide the fact that you'll get 5 fps in cities.
Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5576


Reply #100 on: October 28, 2008, 12:41:44 AM

In honor of this game's development, I'm dressing as SPOCK for Halloween.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #101 on: October 28, 2008, 12:48:52 AM

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,46413/

    Star Wars: Galaxies - Episode III Rage of the Wookiees (2005), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
    Star Wars: Galaxies - The Total Experience (2005), LucasArts
    NHL 2005 (2004), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Star Wars: Galaxies - Jump to Light Speed (2004), LucasArts
    Star Wars: Galaxies - An Empire Divided (2003), LucasArts
    CyberStrike 2 (1998), 989 Studios

Heh. It's like I don't even have to try. Still doesn't explain how screenshots were ever released with lightsabers the size of a bantha.
Triforcer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4663


Reply #102 on: October 28, 2008, 01:21:56 AM

I still don't get what the fuss is.  Stylized TF2-style graphics don't really age in the way we normally think of graphics aging.  This is one thing that WoW nailed.  Photorealistic stuff ages badly because there is always better photorealistic stuff the next year. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
SnakeCharmer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3807


Reply #103 on: October 28, 2008, 07:02:57 AM

Still doesn't explain how screenshots were ever released with lightsabers the size of a bantha.

But oversized weapons make you feel powerful.
trias_e
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1296


Reply #104 on: October 28, 2008, 07:38:29 AM

Quote
I still don't get what the fuss is.  Stylized TF2-style graphics don't really age in the way we normally think of graphics aging.  This is one thing that WoW nailed.  Photorealistic stuff ages badly because there is always better photorealistic stuff the next year.

Agreed, any game you want people to play for years to come should go this route in the first place, for an MMORPG it should be a no-brainer.


I remember having a conversation about the personal story-based MMORPG a long time ago, I believe on this site.  It seems to just be a tragic concept.  Either you make the storyline meaningless to the character development and no one will give a shit about it, or you make the storyline matter in development and end up with a bunch of characters who are pissed about how their character turned out and have to re-roll to make the 'correct' choices.  You can't let people switch at will, because again, the story doesn't matter at that point.

Honestly, the only way I could sort of see getting around this is a faction based end game where the choices you made during the story-line aren't permanent, but just push you to certain directions of gameplay.  Even there it's likely that in the end game people would view this as a inconvenience instead of a benefit, unless you push some seriously incredible evolving RP/story angle really well and make people feel involved in whatever faction they find themselves.  God, even that sounds idealistic as hell.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 07:47:43 AM by trias_e »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 402 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC