Patch 3.0.2 tomorrow

[Montague]

That SOC stun is from a Glyph, IIRC, not the ability itself.  I haven't looked at ret in a while though.

No, when SOC is judged when a target is incapacitated it deals double damage. What's going on is that Judgment of Command has a spellpower coefficient, and Ret pallies have a talent where their Spellpower is scaling with their Attack Power. That's increasing the damage by a good amount, plus there are talents that greatly increase the crit chance, and the crit damage from Judgments.

The upshot is that a well-geared Ret pally is going to have around a 60% chance to crit you with a judgment before resilience, and if you're stunned that judgment is going to do quadruple damage plus an additional 20% if it crits. I haven't been able to test stuff out extensively but on a quick run to the Blood Elf island my tier-4ish equipped Ret pally with 2100 AP was capable of dealing 10k damage in about 4 seconds if the stars aligned. I'm guessing a Sunwell/Brutal-equipped pally could exceed 15k in that span.

[Mazakiel]

I'm having to learn to replay a bit on my enhance shammy, I've gained several things I can do instead of just stormstrike and earthshock.  It's been a lot of fun, and I feel less beholden to windfury procs. 

[Jayce]

From what I've heard, it would be out of combat, it would most likely be on some form of short timer, and it wouldn't be allowed in arenas at all. The bigger question though is outside of pvp, why should there be a limiting factor? I would like to hear your thought process on that one, because I don't really understand it.

If it becomes trivial to find a trick to swap specs, it seems like they might as well have just dropped the pretense and doubled the talent points we get instead.

The only real hard limiting factor is that you can't exit combat with a boss in a raid instance.  Even then, need more healers? Let your feral druid die, run back respeccing and reenter the instance, all midfight.

World PvP and battlegrounds are yet another thing, particularly for classes that can exit combat like rogues and hunters.  If your spec isn't working against the other guy, just get out of combat, hit the button, turn around and shoot your new ultimate ability at them.

[Lantyssa]

And the problem with this is?

I find it's not very fun to be useless.  Mobs probably aren't going to get their feelings hurt by doing this.  Do you care how I play the game?

Were it a PvP situation, which I don't really see happening, then they could do the same.

[Numtini]

So do it the way that they do in EQ2 and require you to see your trainer. All the same to me. The point is to not go broke trying to swap between two specs both of which effectively cut off half the game to you.

[Paelos]

And the problem with this is?

I find it's not very fun to be useless.  Mobs probably aren't going to get their feelings hurt by doing this.  Do you care how I play the game?

Were it a PvP situation, which I don't really see happening, then they could do the same.

I agree, I find PvE arguments against dual spec to be extremely hollow. They usually seem to center on the fact that they want people more defined, or they want the game to be harder. I hated the idea of specs anyway because of the limiting factor. WoW PvE already limits you by your class abilities, and they further limit you be the gear needed to compete. We have to be limited again by our specs? I say that's just too much. You can't run out of instances and reenter during boss fights with different specs. The fights close the instance until everyone is OOC. Let's say you have a 2 warrior tanks and a pally tank. In a 3 tank boss fight, you have it nailed. In a one man boss fight, your warrior and pally can swap to their dps specs, or the pally can go for extra heals if that's his thing.

It's about increasing adaptability and decreasing raid composition rigidity. No longer will you have to jump from one foot to the other because different bosses require different things. It opens up the ability to play with more gear options than simply going after one particular style. It will increase competition on gear for sure, but it also means that less gear will get sharded.

[Zetor]

Even then, need more healers? Let your feral druid die, run back respeccing and reenter the instance, all midfight.

That wouldn't work, since most [all?] boss fights in instances lock people out of the instance while a fight is going on (you get a "battle is in progress, can't enter" style error messge if you try to zone in).

Avoiding the "oh, the rogue blinded and restealthed, now he's switching to full assassination spec" problem would be simple by making it a pure out-of-combat ability with a 15sec cast time or something...


-- Z.

[Paelos]

Or just not allowing anybody to respec while in a BG or an Arena.

Problem solved.

[Jayce]

Or just not allowing anybody to respec while in a BG or an Arena.

Problem solved.

World PvP.  But someone will probably just say who cares about that playstyle.

I mean, I play EVE, so maybe the point about making the game harder and being a masochist hits home.  Still, arenas and boss fights will be the only place you can't be everything.  They're the exception.

So I guess I'm not so much complaining, because I can certainly see the argument that finding people the right spec for a given fight is nothing but a headache and doesn't add to the fun or challenge of a raid or 5-man meaningfully.  But I'm seriously asking - if they're going down this road, why not just give everyone all talents instead of putting a trivial barrier in place?

[Ingmar]

So do it the way that they do in EQ2 and require you to see your trainer. All the same to me. The point is to not go broke trying to swap between two specs both of which effectively cut off half the game to you.

No, it needs to be possible within a single instance, without leaving, because otherwise it slows everything down as you go from a 2 tank boss to a 1 tank boss and one of the tanks has to port back to a trainer, respec, and then get ported or run back. It just wastes everyone's time.

That's the exact sort of scenario they are trying to address with this change, according to the panel.

[Ingmar]

Or just not allowing anybody to respec while in a BG or an Arena.

Problem solved.

World PvP.  But someone will probably just say who cares about that playstyle.

I mean, I play EVE, so maybe the point about making the game harder and being a masochist hits home.  Still, arenas and boss fights will be the only place you can't be everything.  They're the exception.

So I guess I'm not so much complaining, because I can certainly see the argument that finding people the right spec for a given fight is nothing but a headache and doesn't add to the fun or challenge of a raid or 5-man meaningfully.  But I'm seriously asking - if they're going down this road, why not just give everyone all talents instead of putting a trivial barrier in place?

Dual specs doesn't destroy game balance, it just increases convenience. Giving everyone all talents all at once does destroy game balance. The game is not balanced around people having access to all of those things *at the same time*.

[Fordel]

I expect improved hammer of justice to be moved farther in the prot tree more than I expect a ret nerf.  The 20s cooldown is needed so protadins have a reliable interrupt.   They will probably even-out ret's dps at some point, because it's far too streaky right now but it's probably going to stay where its at in terms of overall damage output.

It's only 30 seconds from the talents. The Extra 10 is from the PvP set bonus.

I don't expect Imp HoJustice to be moved even deeper, simply because they are running out of low level talents to actually spec into in the Prot tree. There's already a little bit of an issue going deeper into the tree as it is. Ironically, most Prot Paladins end up skipping the talent themselves, since it still doesn't let them reposition a caster.

[Xanthippe]

Did they change or tweak the graphic engine?  Things look snappier, brighter, sharper, clearer.

I haven't seriously logged in to play yet.  Waiting until they fix the broken things.

[Numtini]

They did something to it. Colors look more saturated and the spell effects are definitely torqued up somehow. Check your settings as well, mine were turned down a notch and are usually maxed out. Were there shadows before?

[Fordel]

Shadows are new, some spell effects are updated, otherwise it's the same thing as before.

[Numtini]

I think some of the item glows have been updated which immediately make all the high level characters have more visual interest. (Of course it's also possible it just hooked into something on the video card that some of us weren't seeing.)

[DraconianOne]

About those herbs...

I've just made 65g in about 15 minutes. That's selling peacebloom, silverleaf and mageroyal at ~10g a stack. Sure I did the same with Netherweave bags a couple of days ago but come on - peacebloom? I've just put the next lot on at 15g a stack which is half of what anyone else is putting it on - and I haven't even got onto the hard stuff yet.

Silly money.

EDIT: I realise that for those of you who have been raiding/doing dailies etc. for ages that this is pittance but at the moment this is like a kings ransom to some of us.

[DraconianOne]

Also shadows: check out the wind-riders/whatever-monstrosity you ally types ride




Arse. Pissed again.

[Azazel]

Like I figured, the release is rushed, they haven't gotten things working to a standard level of operation.  I mean, there's always bugs and issues, but this sounds worse than usual by a good bit.

It was fine by the time I got home and patched (I d/led the standalones during the day when I was at work).

[Ratman_tf]

About those herbs...

I've just made 65g in about 15 minutes. That's selling peacebloom, silverleaf and mageroyal at ~10g a stack. Sure I did the same with Netherweave bags a couple of days ago but come on - peacebloom? I've just put the next lot on at 15g a stack which is half of what anyone else is putting it on - and I haven't even got onto the hard stuff yet.

Silly money.

EDIT: I realise that for those of you who have been raiding/doing dailies etc. for ages that this is pittance but at the moment this is like a kings ransom to some of us.

Cash in on it! Some people stocked up on herbs before the patch, but it seems there are a lot of last minute Charlies.

[apocrypha]

About those herbs...

I've just made 65g in about 15 minutes. That's selling peacebloom, silverleaf and mageroyal at ~10g a stack. Sure I did the same with Netherweave bags a couple of days ago but come on - peacebloom? I've just put the next lot on at 15g a stack which is half of what anyone else is putting it on - and I haven't even got onto the hard stuff yet.

Silly money.

EDIT: I realise that for those of you who have been raiding/doing dailies etc. for ages that this is pittance but at the moment this is like a kings ransom to some of us.

Oh awesome. I've got a couple of chars with banks *full* of herbs. Probably 200 full stacks. Might have to see if my back can stand up to logging in and AH'ing for a bit :)

[DraconianOne]

Things I like about this patch that weren't necessarily in the patch notes

1. Shadows are cool. Windrider shadows pass over you while you're plodding along on the ground. (I'm sure I will turn them off for performance reasons before long)
2. Wands no longer trigger global cooldown == nearly as awesome as
3. Corruption is finally insta-cast as default
4. No more demon trainers. No more buying sodding demon skill books.
5. My hunter's cat knows prowl. And kung-fu but I'm more impressed about prowl. (I never trained it before the upgrade)
6. New Soul-Drain animations are sweet
7. Herbs will make me richer than Croesus. (Well, richer than before).
8. (EDIT) Bolt of Netherweave now only needs 5 pieces of cloth instead of 6.

Things I'm not so sure about

1. I used to like having to go out with my hunter, find an animal, train it and then learn it's skill. I will miss that.
2. My 'lock does not seem to be quite as powerful as he once was. My voidy takes damage and doesn't seem to be able to hold aggro. I ran out of mana and didn't know what to do. I got pulverized by a Draenei Warrior (although apparently that isn't new.) Maybe it's just been a long time since I played it properly or maybe I should have not specced afflic.
3. I was going to respec my pally to prot for some AOE grinding in Plaguelands but there hardly seems any point now so I stayed Ret.
4. Gnomes didn't get removed from the game.
5 (EDIT). FUCKING BOLT OF FUCKING NETHERWEAVE ONLY FUCKING NEEDS 5 FUCKING PIECES OF CLOTH!  The day after I grind a fuck load of these fuckers out at 6 pieces of cloth they go and fucking reduce the fucking requirement.

[Selby]

2. My 'lock does not seem to be quite as powerful as he once was. My voidy takes damage and doesn't seem to be able to hold aggro. I ran out of mana and didn't know what to do. I got pulverized by a Draenei Warrior (although apparently that isn't new.) Maybe it's just been a long time since I played it properly or maybe I should have not specced afflic.

They definitely reduced the power of the 'lock.  I'm still demonology spec after the changes, haven't had any serious issues though but I do notice the VW has trouble keeping aggro if I put more than 2 DoTs on the mob.  I do miss the "1 resistance per level" Master Demonologist change to the Felhunter though.  And yeah, I spent a few gold the other day upgrading my pets only to find that they are now built in (which is nice, but still).

Oh, and 15G for 2 stacks of Mageroyal and 10G for 2 stacks of Peacebloom that had just been taking space?  Win.

[Ironwood]

I have around 7 Chars at 70, all different classes.

This patch was pure fucking love for all of them.

However, my Prot Warrior is just waiting for the nerfbat.  He soloed Ramparts.

...

Read it again.  Soloed it.  Closest he came to death was 151 health after taking on 10 at a time.  No joke.

Christ, it's insane what they've done to the Prot Warrior.

[Merusk]

Yeah prot is a powerful spec for both classes that have it now.  Go try something harder and you'll be surprised.

[Mazakiel]

I did some dailies with my friend who plays a protection pally last night, and it's like playing with a whole new class.  He can do a lot more, and doesn't seem so...plodding.  And his gear is really nothing special.  It's a nice change, and it's gotten him to enjoy his paladin again. 

Shaman wise, any thoughts I'd entertained in the past of speccing out of enhancement at some point, even for a bit, are gone.  Maelstrom is nifty, and I love the spirit wolves. 

[Ironwood]

It's beyond enjoyment.  It's actually exciting.  Tanking has never been this much fun.

Shockwave is really cool, the new TC is great and the changes make shield slam fun.  You put that together with the sheer fucking amount of rage you're SWIMMING IN and the fact that revenge will remove limbs now and you've got yourself a party.

I may get bored of it, but for right now it not only helps my game, but makes me look forward to soloing as a Prot chap.

[kaid]

God my prot warrior has become amazing. I am actually a threat in pvp now I do enough damage to kill people and if you thought a stun locking rogue was bad just wait till you see shock wave, concussion blow and improved rend.

[ClydeJr]

My prot warrior got jumped by a pally last night while doing one of the SSO dailies. In the past, that usually meant a slow inevitable death since I could take a ton of damage, but my attacks did less damage then wet noodles. After getting over the initial surprise, I just started slamming, revenge/HS (yea glyph), TCing, shockwave. He had to bubble and run off, I wanted to chase but I aggroed some other stuff durin the fight and had to take care of that. Not sure what spec the pally was, but I was happy as hell.

Of course, 4 minutes later I get jumped by a druid and my brain freezes up. For some reason I was freaking out more during this fight trying to decide what to hit. At one point I stopped pushing buttons for 5 seconds going "Concussion Blow! I need to use Concussion Blow! Where the hell is Concussion Blow! Shit, I didn't map it after the respec!" I did take him down to about 1/3 health.

I've got way too many buttons now and I need to figure out how to arrange them better. Right now they're still set up in a pre-3.0 style which doesn't work well with the new mechanics.

[Polysorbate80]

Best change about this as a prot paladin IMO?  I can kill single mobs without taking all night and burning up half my mana on each one.

Multiple mob fights were always easier, but now they're silly easy.   Even with my PvP suit on (so crappy dodge, parry & block) three or four mobs will keep me in endless mana no matter what I spam.

In the same half-purple/half-blue PvP gear, I can now heal for an amount that's not an embarassment.  Got the glyph that does an extra 10% of Holy Light's healing to 5 targets within 100 yards, I likes it.

Avenger's shield change is OK for DPS, but awesome for BGs.  No more stopping to cast the damn spell while the person I'm chasing just runs out of range before it goes off.

New three-target hammer melee attack seemed a bit meh, but that's probably because I'm using a +spelldamage weapon; a DPS 1-hander might be more impressive.

[Merusk]

New three-target hammer melee attack seemed a bit meh, but that's probably because I'm using a +spelldamage weapon; a DPS 1-hander might be more impressive.

Fuck spelldam weapons. Seriously.  Get a tanking/ DPS weapon.  My pally's a blacksmith so I made that Dragon-headed mace (only the 91dps version.) I'm hitting 3 mobs at a time for 6-700 damage (non crit) where with my "uber" 41.7 damage-capped spelldam weapon I was hitting for 2-300.   Yeah, My spelldam is 300 lower and "only" 311 without it, but that damage is better for aggro than the shitty extra spelldam my +aggro attacks get.

[justdave]

2. My 'lock does not seem to be quite as powerful as he once was. My voidy takes damage and doesn't seem to be able to hold aggro. I ran out of mana and didn't know what to do. I got pulverized by a Draenei Warrior (although apparently that isn't new.) Maybe it's just been a long time since I played it properly or maybe I should have not specced afflic.

They definitely reduced the power of the 'lock.  I'm still demonology spec after the changes, haven't had any serious issues though but I do notice the VW has trouble keeping aggro if I put more than 2 DoTs on the mob.  I do miss the "1 resistance per level" Master Demonologist change to the Felhunter though.  And yeah, I spent a few gold the other day upgrading my pets only to find that they are now built in (which is nice, but still).

Oh, and 15G for 2 stacks of Mageroyal and 10G for 2 stacks of Peacebloom that had just been taking space?  Win.

Hmm...Affliction-specced, I don't really feel much pain. Maybe a -little-...I didn't have much +dmg, though, ~460, so maybe it's the coefficient change that   hit hard. Between the tweaks and Haunt, I know I DO feel like a pally in a dress. I have more health coming in than I need to tap out. It's a little crazy

Demo-specced, why on god's green earth would you ever have the voidwalker out for anything other than a free shield while fooling around in a contested area? Serious question.

[Zetor]

I can confirm that prot warriors are  . I specced my warrior [all in s3 arena gear, haven't pvp'd since mid-s3] 5/5/51 on a whim (season2 weapon+shield, not even 'proper' tanking gear), and ... wow. I can kill stuff almost as fast, and actually have a better shot at some classes than I used to in my old arms spec. I actually stunlocked a shaman from 100% to 0%, kept him from healing anyone on his team other than a NS healing wave and a riptide or two... and I feel sorry for that arms warrior who tried to gank me on the isle of QD. Prot may not be a rogue in plate+shield, but it's pretty close.

I hope they don't nerf pally/warrior tanks as collateral damage when the nerfstick begins to swing at ret pallies.. right now prot feels fun without being overpowered (mostly because all other classes got buffed like crazy as well).

Edit: Not that I'll end up playing WOW over WAR much, at least until WOTLK is out [and probably a while after]... the WAR shiny hasn't worn off yet, kek.


-- Z.

[Paelos]

Prot is certainly more fun one on one now. You are no longer a total joke in pvp, which is the way it should be. That being said, there are still classes that can beat your head in.

[Fordel]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/5/11296670044-retribution-paladin-changes.html


Not like we didn't see that coming.