Leaving the guild group in scenarios...

[amiable]

Ok seriously, I understand that folks want to level quick and I understand completely doing this in PUGS, but it really screws over the tanks/healers in the guild trying to rank up in scenarios because:

1.  We do not get XP for healing/protecting/saving you. 
2.  For folks who are AOE heal specced (like myself) it cuts you off from our best heals.  It is also a pain to watch non party members on grid/the in game pop-up window.
3.  It sets a bad example and does not encourage teamwork.

Discuss.

[Kirth]

I agree. its an obvious loop hole / exploit in the way Renown and Xp is calculated in RvR.

[schild]

1.  We do not get XP for healing/protecting/saving you.

Are you sure? On my arch mage I got exp for those things for healing people in other groups.

I agree. its an obvious loop hole / exploit in the way Renown and Xp is calculated in RvR.

Well, yes. But yea, after doing it it only seems effective for Bright Wizards and their healer.

[amiable]

1.  We do not get XP for healing/protecting/saving you.

Are you sure? On my arch mage I got exp for those things for healing people in other groups.

I agree. its an obvious loop hole / exploit in the way Renown and Xp is calculated in RvR.

Well, yes. But yea, after doing it it only seems effective for Bright Wizards and their healer.

In my experience we get reknown, but not XP.

[schild]

I'd test it, but the bonus experience for anyone other than a Bright Wizard just isn't worth it. And you really have to bank on the rest of the team doing well.

[amiable]

And BTW:  this wasn't directed solely to you.  There were a few folks doing it last night and I just wanted to clear the air.

[schild]

I wasn't worried about who it was directed at, I know I was trying it also, and it just wasn't effective even with Glass, Acid and Festering Arrows running.

[kildorn]

The trick to doing it is to tag every possible target first. Dealing damage is not the goal.

RP is split based on damage done, and being out of a group doesn't really help (especially since you leech group healer RP by being IN the group, too)

XP is based on tagging, and assigned to the group that tagged. If you spam instant/fast casts and AEs aggressively and don't die, that means you get full XP for every target, not split with anyone else. Add in that rvr seems to give about triple the xp of a normal kill.

That said, it's fucking annoying, and I adamantly do not heal people in their own one man groups. It makes my windows cluttered and targeting a bitch, I just don't have the time nor care to do it. I'll heal my group easily, and the other group with a little more difficulty, nobody else.

[tazelbain]

>I adamantly do not heal people in their own one man groups.
I can see their bar just fine.  I am still not healing them.

[Righ]

Wow, exploiting the experience mechanic in such a way as to undermine fellow guild members. Just wow.

[schild]

Righ, it's not to undermind fellow guild members, it's to undermine Tier 3.

The only people to blame for this one are the folks at Mythic. As I've said directly to them, their designers were out to lunch. When I see Kraz break 20k and a thousand renown on Tor Anroc, guess what, I can't blame the guy. If it worked out for me, I would to. Tier 3 isn't a social call, it's a long hard walk through mud and poorly designed scenarios and content. I don't even know how or who thought the entire tier was somehow OK.

[amiable]

Righ, it's not to undermind fellow guild members, it's to undermine Tier 3.

The only people to blame for this one are the folks at Mythic. As I've said directly to them, their designers were out to lunch. When I see Kraz break 20k and a thousand renown on Tor Anroc, guess what, I can't blame the guy. If it worked out for me, I would to. Tier 3 isn't a social call, it's a long hard walk through mud and poorly designed scenarios and content. I don't even know how or who thought the entire tier was somehow OK.

I agree completely.  The only point I am trying to make is the one thing that makes Tier 3 fun is group PvP/PvE.  I really dig grouping with you guys and even when we lose it is a lot of fun, and while I understand why folks want to get out of Tier 3, I think they will have a much more satisfying time doing so in a way that doesn't undermine the group dynamic.

[tazelbain]

So when this is happening are guild players queued together and the once the scenarios starts a few people leave the group to get better exp?

[schild]

I did that once. To be fair, I warned them before I even got in the group the scenario popped (Different time, different thing, though I did manage to get called away from a scenario and became useless, that was annoying).

Other folks who are doing it queue up seperately. I'm pretty sure Amiable didn't make the thread because it was a drama thing so much as a PSA/minor annoyance.

[amiable]

I'm pretty sure Amiable didn't make the thread because it was a drama thing so much as a PSA/minor annoyance.

This.  I'm not mad or anything, I just wanted to make folks aware.  It is a bit selfish on my part too too because I get the majority of my XP from scenarios, because PvE is mundnumbingly impossible with a RP solo, it is only bearable when I can convince Sianne and or Kirth to AOE grind with me!

[Signe]

I'm sure Amicable didn't make the thread to cause trouble because that would be contrary to his name.  However, unless you DO warn people before doing this, it's a crappy thing to do, no?

[Righ]

Tier 3 isn't a social call, it's a long hard walk through mud and poorly designed scenarios and content.

Doesn't this make it an even longer, more lonely walk through tier 3 for the healers and tanks that you're, uh, not exploiting?

[Nonentity]

I was queueing with Seanzor, Kraz and Exo last night as our own little group.

It really was the best way to level - I hit RR20 and Rank 25 in the same match.

Making 1.5k+ renown a game as a healer is pretty nice.

I specifically did it in our own group, though, as not to splinter a group up.

[cevik]

Was that elder server NDA ever lifted?

[Nebu]

Telling other people how to have their fun is always a bad idea.  Especially in a game. 

Edit: Ok, being a dick is never ok... but I don't think this is an overt case of being an ass, just playing with people they enjoy playing with.

[Ingmar]

IMO if you want to troll, Cevik, do it in something other than the guild forum.

My plan for T3 is to grind straight through mostly doing PVE. If this game is anything like DAOC in the endgame, the RP income from doing just a few days of endgame PVP will eclipse what you can get below that so there's not necessarily much reason to stop and farm renown. Granted I am leveling slow and am not even out of T2 yet so, yeah.

Also as a runepriest I Officially Disapprove of people leaving the group and thus screwing me out of XP. It just seems like a recipe for hitting T4 and having to wait for healers to rank up anyway. 

[rk47]

If you need help for PQ bosses I'm always happy to tank for you Ingmar.

[trias_e]

This seems pretty lame.  A corollary might be me letting dps die a bunch in a PQ so I get more contribution, or any other such anti-team wankery. 

[tazelbain]

>just playing with people they enjoy playing with.
lol, they are min/maxing to get the more xp, enjoyment is secondary.  I guess they expect to get more enjoyment in the 4th tier.

Personally I mostly just want to kick people's teeth in while hanging out with people who don't make me want gouge my eyes out.  That means full coordinated groups.

[Nebu]

Yeah, you're right... I reread the thread and see my error on that half of the statement.

As a Runepriest, I just don't heal those people.  If they want to play solo, I let them play solo. 

[Numtini]

Apparently if you're solo, you don't even appear on my UI. I use squared and someone's reporting if you create your own party, you appear in a new row, but if you fly solo you don't appear at all. Honestly, this seems like a feature not a bug.

[Nonentity]

Apparently if you're solo, you don't even appear on my UI. I use squared and someone's reporting if you create your own party, you appear in a new row, but if you fly solo you don't appear at all. Honestly, this seems like a feature not a bug.

This.

They don't even appear in the default UI frames, to be fair.

[Nebu]

Apparently if you're solo, you don't even appear on my UI. I use squared and someone's reporting if you create your own party, you appear in a new row, but if you fly solo you don't appear at all. Honestly, this seems like a feature not a bug.

Are you telling me that there is a UI for healing people outside of your party in a scenario that aren't in a warband?  If so, link please!

[schild]

Eh? It's built into the game. While Grid (a Curse mod) does it, you just click the little box on the party flags in the Scenario gui.

[Ingmar]

Apparently if you're solo, you don't even appear on my UI. I use squared and someone's reporting if you create your own party, you appear in a new row, but if you fly solo you don't appear at all. Honestly, this seems like a feature not a bug.

Are you telling me that there is a UI for healing people outside of your party in a scenario that aren't in a warband?  If so, link please!

Click on the flag on the border of your minimap when in a scenario for 'scenario parties'. From that you can drag the other parties off into the UI and position them where you want. Sadly you do have to redo it every scenario as far as I can tell.

[Nebu]

Eh? It's built into the game. While Grid (a Curse mod) does it, you just click the little box on the party flags in the Scenario gui.

Dude... I'm a luddite.  Messing with the UI is like using one of those magical boxes with the talking people in it. 

[Numtini]

Are you telling me that there is a UI for healing people outside of your party in a scenario that aren't in a warband?  If so, link please!

Wait, I'm trying to remember, do you only see your own party by default in scenarios? (Yes, I started downloading mods quickly)

Squared is a clone of WoW's Grid which was mainly something healers used. You get a square for each character. It shows everyone in your group, warband, or scenario (except apparently ungrouped players -- but i see both groups in a scenario). There's a lot of configuration, particularly for such a new mod for a new game. Mine is set to color code by class at full health. As they go down, you see the square unfil, but it will also turn yellow then orange depending on hp%

As well as giving fast data, since all the characters are in about 2" of screen real estate, it makes it very easy to select them with a mouse.

Highly recommended.

http://war.curse.com/downloads/war-addons/details/squared.aspx

[tazelbain]

Squared sems to have a problem with people in party 5.

[Nonentity]

Squared sems to have a problem with people in party 5.

If you're using an older version, it had this problem - they've had like, 3 updates a day to the client since it came out.

Grab the latest version (I got one last night) that fixes this problem.