Fantasy Hockey '08-'09

[Azaroth]

Okay. That Detroit/Pittsburgh game was fucking awesome.

It sucked for most of the first and some of the second, because when Detroit is on their game they give absolutely no time and space to any of the opposition. Leading to some stifling, boring ass hockey.

But they apparently think highly of themselves and are prone to getting overconfident as well. Once they were up 5-2, the game started going back and forth. Pens won 7-6.

Pure awesome.

[Fordel]

This season has been full of games like that.


I don't think anything changed significantly rule wise to cause it to stir up. But damn! 

[Special J]

This season has been full of games like that.


I don't think anything changed significantly rule wise to cause it to stir up. But damn! 

No TV timeouts if the puck is iced.  Now I won't say it would turn 3-2 game into a 7-6 game; but it is having an effect.  No line changes after icing wasn't harsh enough since defenses new they could get 3 rest breaks each period and knew when they were available.  As long as the linesman actually uphold the fast faceoffs it keeps more sustained pressure.  All faceoffs after penalties being in the offensive zone doesn't hurt either.

[Phildo]

Well, I finally get fed up and drop Pominville and he has a 3 point night.  Fucker.

[Strazos]

Yeah, I am Loving the whole penalty = face-off in your zone rule thing. Really sticks it to the team who is dumb enough to commit offensive zone infractions.

[Strazos]

Seeing as this is our only hockey thread....

Anyone hear about some tard up in Montreal that wants to outlaw flat-out shot blocking? Going down and sprawling to block a shot would be a penalty.

Am I the only one who thinks this would be fucking stupid?

[Azaroth]

Bob Gainey. One of the best defensive players in league history, General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens.

I'd say he has a point. Shot blocking has become a MANDATORY action for players. Not only is it incredibly dangerous for them (and not just broken feet, broken legs, broken ribs.. I've seen players get hit in the throat and almost die), but it downright stifles offense.

Do you know how many shots are blocked during a game?

Now, I don't know where to find those stats at the moment. But a quick google shows a quote from a Pittsburgh Gazette article dated Oct. 29th 2008:

Going into last night, Scuderi was second in the league with 28 blocks. Teammate Brooks Orpik was ninth with 22. Among other Penguins defensemen, Mark Eaton had 18, Kris Letang 17 and Hal Gill 16.

Now, how many games had been played by the end of October?

Most teams are around 20 games played right now. So, what - 10?

That's a LOT OF FUCKING BLOCKED SHOTS through ten games.

Had the majority of those gotten through, how many goals would have resulted?

Possibly more than that - Sidney Crosby broke his foot two seasons ago blocking a shot. Shot blocking is a main reason to keep superstars off of a penalty kill. Eliminate that danger and you not only increase goals one way, but also the other on penalty kills because stars will be out there more, thinking offensively.

[Azaroth]

Also, about the entire hockey world agrees with you, Strazos. I'm just presenting my viewpoint, and probably Bob Gainey's too.

[Strazos]

I think shot blocking, and the possibility of injury from it, is an integral part of the game. Not every player is going to throw themselves in front of a rubber-spewing cannon like Markov or something. And it takes skill on the part of the shooter to either shoot around the blocker, or be patient and let the block put themselves out of position.

Also, I don't buy superstars not being on the PK because of shot blocking - Carter, Richards, and Gagne all kill penalties. Some stars are not out there because they are not all that great defensively, or they are given a chance to rest.

And the whole "going down on one knee to block" idea? putting the majority of your body right in front of a shot? I see that causing more injuries, not less. Sticking those shins out there is probably the safest way to block a shot.

I really dislike the recent movement to take grit out of the game. Making diving blocks illegal will kill the game of a lot of good defensive players.

[Azaroth]

Like I said, throwing yourself infront of a vulcanized rubber puck moving 90mph isn't something only 'great defensive players' do now. Very few players won't do it. It's basically become mandatory. People watching the game in 80% of these markets don't understand shot blocking, either. They just understand that a whole lot of nothing just happened.

Fact remains:

Shot blocking becomes more controlled by the rules = More offense both ways, less injuries.

[Strazos]

There's a difference between doing it, and doing it well.

Besides, I see many more shots simply get blocked in traffic. Being called for a penalty for being down on the ice seems ludicrous.

And what about pass blocking? Are players no longer allowed to lay out on 2 on 1's to block a passing lane?


I'm sure Gainey means well, but his efforts are not altogether selfless - Montreal is a pass-happy team, and a rule like this would remove huge obstacles for them.

[WayAbvPar]

I am with Straz on this one (get your ass on NHL09 and play some games with us, btw!). If they want to increase scoring, make the goalie pads smaller. Watching a game from the 70s or 80s makes today's game look like a different sport with the size of the pads.

Speaking of goalies, I am on suicide watch. The Canucks are utterly fucked without him.

[Strazos]

(get your ass on NHL09 and play some games with us, btw!).

I'm SORRY!

There's been a lot of stuff on my 360 plate lately, and I've been reading, and when I was going on, no one else was on to play with.

[Azaroth]

Agreed that pads need to be smaller. Specifically upper body pads.

Ever since they regulated the size of the goalie's pads, they look comical with the (seemingly) tiny pads and huge chest padding.

Regulate it ALL.

Watch all of those Gretzky goals, dude. No, the goalies didn't have as much skill back then and that much is clear when you watch the clips -- but look at the size of their freaking pads. Half of the goals back then would never go in today solely due to michelin man factor.

[Special J]

Ken Dryden - 6'4"  207lbs.


J.S. Giguere - 6'1" 201bs.

[Azaroth]

I'm surprised they haven't just started using pizza shovel instead of a stick.

[Azaroth]

Edit: Electric Batman cape too.

[Strazos]

Leg pads are Thicker, but not That much wider than the old ones. The biggest difference is the shoulder/chest protector. And durr, helmet.

I'm reticent to tinker too much with the upper body stuff. How much smaller can you make them before you sacrifice bodily protection and safety?

Sticks have not changed.

[Azaroth]

What I meant was that I'm surprised they haven't just gone all the way and started using huge sticks.

My two biggest WTFs of the Eastern Conference:

1. Ottawa. WTF? 1 point out of last place.

2. Tampa Bay. They weren't good last year, but still. Like Ottawa, this team was GOOD not too long ago. Plus they added a bunch of pretty (if overrated) things. Last place again? Wtf.

[Azaroth]

BTW, even though Toronto is "massively overachieving", they're in tenth place in the East. Three points out of dead last.

When Burkie does the obvious and ditches Toskala, Kaberle, Antropov, Kubina, etc for picks and prospects... you Toronto guys will be enjoying your top 3 pick. And probably about four other first rounders.

See, I personally find that exciting. I went through it with Pittsburgh, and it's fun to play mental trading card fantasy games when you're watching your team lose. You'll be surprised how few guys that go in the mid-late first round pan out, though. So beware. Getting a first round pick from Detroit means a fuck of a lot less than a pick from Atlanta.

I only say this because Leafs fans tend to massively overestimate the worth of their own prospects. Probably because they haven't had any real prospects in many years, so Jiri "The Wang" Tlusty seems pretty exciting.

[Fordel]

I only say this because Leafs fans tend to massively overestimate the worth of their own prospects. Probably because they haven't had any real prospects in many years, so Jiri "The Wang" Tlusty seems pretty exciting.

Ain't that the fucking truth. For the last like, 5 years, the leafs have been a 2nd or worse line team. So has Burke actually signed on? I've been living in a Cave called Wrath of the Lich King for the past couple weeks 



As to the previous discussion, one thing you can't discount is the fact Goalies are just better as a whole compared to the old days.

[Azaroth]

Most goalies play a positional game made possibly almost entirely by the size of the equipment these days.

Burke has signed on. The Burke shit is totally overrated.

What'd he do in Vancouver?

Right..

What'd he do in Anaheim?

"WON A CUP!"

Sure. That team was 95% put together already. He traded for Pronger.

These things does not a genius make.

Sorry Leafers. They key to your future lies in your SCOUTS. If Burke can fleece some people out of higher-than-necessary picks being sent the Leafs way over the next few years, that's good too.

[Special J]

What I meant was that I'm surprised they haven't just gone all the way and started using huge sticks.

My two biggest WTFs of the Eastern Conference:

1. Ottawa. WTF? 1 point out of last place.

2. Tampa Bay. They weren't good last year, but still. Like Ottawa, this team was GOOD not too long ago. Plus they added a bunch of pretty (if overrated) things. Last place again? Wtf.

1.  Well I'm a Sens fan so I've watched them pretty close.  While I certainly didn't expect them to be this bad, there are big holes in that lineup:  Gerber now on year 3 and he's still awful though Auld has been a surprise.  The defense, while stronger in their own end has lost everyone with any offensive touch or that can deliver that outlet pass that can send their big guns up the ice.  Lack of scoring depth is an old story but still true.

2.  Tampa Bay is a disorganized mess from ownership on down.  The owner dump a successful GM for one of their agent buddies.  He drastically changes their lineup while not addressing their woeful defense and signing dubious free agents.  Then they bring in a washed up coach who the players revolt against.

[Strazos]

Yeah...Barry Melrose...Really?

lol

[Azaroth]

Well, you could explain everything away if a team was bad. On the flipside, if the Lightning and Senators were mowing everyone down right now, it'd be "HEATLEY! ALFREDSSON! SPEZZA!!! HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG! OMG FISHER AND VERMETTE PROVIDING SECONDARY SCORING WHAT A TEAM!!!". Lightning would be Lecavalier! St. Louis! New coach is great! Stamkos! Malone! Smith is awesome!

Well, yeah. It's easy to talk something up when they're doing well, and to pick it apart when they're not. But the surprise is, to me, just HOW VERY BAD these teams are.

I mean.. the Sens went from SC finalists to a legendary start the next season to, like, the worst team of all time.

[naum]

Starting to really get into hockey season, have caught all but one of the Pens past 4 or 5 games and most of the Coyotes too, along with a smattering of other teams (Center Ice Package).

1. Pens look like a machine some games, like they're on the power play when really not, even if it's not manifested into big goal scoring eruptions. And they're getting production from others besides Malkin, Crosby and Staal. Kennedy, Satan and others have pitched in and while I bashed #13 Gogoloski in an earlier post, him and Letang have really stepped up their game. Kind of disappointed in Gil, but he still does yeoman PK duty. Orpik keeps shedding my doubts about him and well Scuderi hasn't been too bad even…

2. Coyotes are struggling but could get it together — at best, they're a second tier playoff qualifier. Too much reliance on Jokinen (who is out now) and Doan. And if Bryzgalov loses his groove, it might be a long season.

3. Really don't know what his happening in Tampa, I thought Tortorella did excellent job there, but he lost confidence and from the sounds of it, Melrose, despite sitting in a TV analyst chair for ~15 years, came back into coaching with an "original 6" mindset on conducting practice and formulating team play tactics. Might be further meltdown, and who knows, maybe St. Louis and Lecavielier end up with cup contenders come trading deadline. And they overpaid for Ryan Malone.

4. Rangers sans Jagr look really good. Good goaltending from Lundqvist and solid squad though Paul Mara is still a stiff. He looks like a great hockey player and has all the tools, but it hasn't translated into stellar play for him.

5. Sens might be struggling but come end of season, they will be in playoffs and a threat to go all the way.

[Azaroth]

Malone is a perennial 20 goal scorer with some good grit, and he can fight a little.

They decided to go ahead and pay him 4.5m for five years.

Not only does this piss me off because it's stupid - not only does it piss me off because things like this have a ripple effect on salaries. But it pisses me off because people are taking pieces from the Penguins that would have otherwise existed very comfortable in their natural environment, getting a reasonable salary and making up a very, very good team (which is now just a good team).

If Staal doesn't sign soon, I can't even fucking imagine what some asshole will pay him.

[Special J]

Well, you could explain everything away if a team was bad. On the flipside, if the Lightning and Senators were mowing everyone down right now, it'd be "HEATLEY! ALFREDSSON! SPEZZA!!! HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG! OMG FISHER AND VERMETTE PROVIDING SECONDARY SCORING WHAT A TEAM!!!". Lightning would be Lecavalier! St. Louis! New coach is great! Stamkos! Malone! Smith is awesome!

Well, yeah. It's easy to talk something up when they're doing well, and to pick it apart when they're not. But the surprise is, to me, just HOW VERY BAD these teams are.

I mean.. the Sens went from SC finalists to a legendary start the next season to, like, the worst team of all time.

Sure, but you could say that about nearly any team, life is always good when your winning.  But they've been painful to watch since January so I take a hard look them figure out what's wrong.  Anyways, yes, the collapse from the Finals to now has been epic.

I should say, I don't think they're as bad as their record shows right now, but they're not great either.  I still think they get in, but I need to see some shortcomings addressed before I start getting my hopes up about a deep playoff run.

And Tampa didn't surprise me at all. I mean, did anyone not named Brian Lawton actually think hiring Barry Melrose was a good idea?

[Azaroth]

About every television commentator in the world, until he got fired.

[Special J]

About every television commentator in the world, until he got fired.

He's one of them.  They never say anything bad about one another.

Barry had one successful season in the NHL.  Where he rode Wayne Gretzky to the finals.  Wayne probably had more say in his linemates than he did.  Then he puts up two terrible seasons and never coaches until now.  No time in the minors, nothing in junior. 

Every television commentator in the world needs their head checked, or they were being nice to their buddy.  Sure you can find a diamond in the rough sometimes, but there is nothing here that says "What a great hire!".

I bet you Rick Tocchet will be more successful. 

[Azaroth]

Yeah, more money would be made betting FOR the Lightning at this point. He has incentive to do well.

[WayAbvPar]

I bet you Rick Tocchet will be more successful.

So will Janet Gretzky!

Melrose has always seemed like a mostly harmless dope to me. I was amazed to see him in the NHL so soon after coaching the Seattle WHL team- that was quite a step up.

In other hockey news, Curtis Sanford is making me long for the Dan Cloutier days. God he was dreadful last night. Schneider, OTOH, looks like he is about ready to be a full time NHLer, at least as a backup for now. Kid has some chops.

[cmlancas]

I know I'm necroposting like an asshat, but I for one was someone who thought hiring Melrose was a fucking moronic idea.  Also, I'm not sure how much ya'll watch TB games, but they're only missing by a little -- this is not the same team from last year.  They have good goaltending and their third line is coming around.  The return of Halpern helped us a lot, and Smaby is contributing on defense (and will probably stay called up).

I know the team's stats in the win column are terrible, but they're playing good hockey.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you see them make the playoffs this year.

Also, Malone is on pace for a better than 20 goal year.  Sounds like sour grapes we have him and PIT doesn't.

[Strazos]

Sure, PIT would like him...but your team massively overpayed for him....$7m in the first two seasons of his 31m/7 year contract? lol

[Azaroth]

Malone is a fine player. But nobody said otherwise, really.

But in a salary cap world, he is in no way, shape, or form worth what you guys paid him.