Heroes

[Merusk]

To give the writers some credit(ha!) I like to think of Sylar as an alcoholic who knows he's done bad things, who wants to change but who is still blaming the bottle for all his troubles. It was the booze talking, the hunger doing those things, not him. If that's the case he's really not reformed at all, he hasn't hit any sort of rock bottom and a relapse comes easily. I would like to think the writers have put this much thought into it but I'm still hanging onto my hopes for this show.

That's pretty much how I read it as well.  All his talk about "the hunger" is just his way of dissociating himself from all the bad shit he's done.

Except that it's affected Peter as well, so it would appear to be well established that it's linked to the power itself.

[NowhereMan]

Which now begs the question, is Petrelli senior going to start lopping open brains now?

I've just started watching this season, had pretty much forgotten most of 2 so the lack of resolution on those plot points doesn't bother me too much. Having read this thread I can see how having the time to nitpick some of the stuff that's happened starts to kill the show. I think Jeff has a point that spending all your time rehashing what's happened and delving into every possible action a character could have taken is going to kill off enjoyment of this show. There are a few cases of genuine stupidity but personally I think they handle Hiro's time travel thing quite well simply by making Hiro, well, Hiro. His attempt to capture the African precog was fucking brilliant.

I definitely buy Sylar's conversion, Mama Petrelli was just what he's been wanting since Season 1. A mother who thinks he's awesome and special for being who he is, he didn't really snap fully until his (adopted) mother called him a monster. Also like any addict I think Peter telling him there was a future him who had overcome his problem genuinely has given him some hope, though I agree I don't think he's really hit rock bottom yet. I think he's getting set up for a redemption so that he can fall way back down later. Either that or Peter falls and Gabriel gets to be the new hero (would that confuse viewers way too fucking much?)

Also HRG is a selfish fuck and I think Claire is starting to catch on to that. He doesn't give a fuck about anyone except his family. That is his one and only concern and I think Claire has had a little too much exposure to Peter to accept that this makes him a good man or father.

[Cyrrex]

Definitely better this week.  The Hiro/Precog stuff was fucking brilliant (1 minute earlier, lol).  Sylar becomes more believable, I actually find myself sympathizing with him a bit.  Mohinder....eh.  Out of character - but then again, the writers have a way of explaining things well after they introduce a new problem, so I'll be patient with that line for now.

I wasn't liking Daphne much in the early going (except for, well, the whole boobs thing), and Parkman has always been a doofus, but somehow I'm interested to see where it's going.  Daphne is growing on me a bit.  And, boobs.

The time travel stuff doesn't really bother me at all.  You people need to be a little better at suspending disbelief, to be honest.  Especially when you consider that time travel is nothing but, you know, a completely unproven theory that nobody can possibly know how it is supposed to work.  

Also HRG is a selfish fuck and I think Claire is starting to catch on to that. He doesn't give a fuck about anyone except his family. That is his one and only concern and I think Claire has had a little too much exposure to Peter to accept that this makes him a good man or father.

Agreed with all your points NowhereMan, but doubly so on this.  I kinda like Noah, but I get tired of him claiming that he's just doing it to protect his family.  A big part of it is him wanting to protect himself.

[Samwise]

That's pretty much how I read it as well.  All his talk about "the hunger" is just his way of dissociating himself from all the bad shit he's done.

Except that it's affected Peter as well, so it would appear to be well established that it's linked to the power itself.

Oh, I'm sure it's linked, but he's like an alcoholic blaming his problems on the drink and not taking any responsibility for his own choices.

[Grimwell]

Which now begs the question, is Petrelli senior going to start lopping open brains now?

I'd say "No" to that idea. Peter had been around Sylar numerous times and should have picked up the power via presence, but it wasn't until Sylar taught him how to understand how the power worked that the hunger clicked in. Yes, I know that Peter needs to know how to use a power before he can use it, but I'm thinking this condition (understanding how things work) is the trigger for the hunger.

Plus, now that I think of it, Pa Petrelli should have Peter's "just need to stand near you to get the powers" thing going now. If they had him zap his son first Adam wouldn't have had to die. 

[Venkman]

Has it always been the case that NBC only allows the viewing of this particular season's full episodes? I'd like to rewatch some of season 1, they're not on the site, and I'm guessing they want me to buy the full season on DVD or some such (other option is iTunes I suppose).

[CmdrSlack]

Has it always been the case that NBC only allows the viewing of this particular season's full episodes? I'd like to rewatch some of season 1, they're not on the site, and I'm guessing they want me to buy the full season on DVD or some such (other option is iTunes I suppose).

Or Netflix.

[Samwise]

Netflix is how I watch almost all my TV now (at least whatever I can't get on Hulu).  It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying each episode on iTunes.

[Venkman]

Nobody watched it last night? How am I supposed to know whether it's worth my time?!

[Nerf]

Last nights was pretty meh, just seemed like a lot of useless filler to me.

[Mazakiel]

It was kinda meh.  Some cool parts, but a lot more dumb stuff that dragged down the cool.  Plus, we get to wait two weeks for another flashback episode, which comes at probably the worst time possible.  Split them up and stick them into relevant parts of present time episodes, another forced 'one year ago' episode just serves to kill what momentum they'd built up. 

Oh, and they're apparently going to be building on that comment Sylar made to Elle about her possibly being the one most responsible for what he became or whatever it was.  So....meh. 

[Nevermore]

It wasn't too bad for an episode with a lot of Mohinder and not enough Hiro.  Parkman leveled up.  There are a couple of spies and traitors.  The future has already been changed unless Peter somehow gets his powers back.  The pieces are almost set up for a big finale, it seems.  It should be happening in 3 or 4 more episodes.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, filler episode.  I like Elle okay, so that was all fine.  Kinda fun that her powers are shorting out.

Still can't tell where they are going with Sylar, but that thing he did near the end with Peter had me all  and then I was all 

[Slyfeind]

Sylar's really growing on me, I like Parkman's subplot, but everything else was just kinda meh. I can't believe Mohinder could ever knock Sylar out...unless Sylar wanted to be knocked out, HMMM. I'm not thrilled about another flashback episode. I feel like we know everything we need to know, and any new developments can be explained by moving forward, not moving back.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Some thoughts.

-Parkman using new powers is awesome, parkman not reading daphne's mind is retarded.

-Petrelli senior seems like such a one-dimensional 'rawr i'm the big bad guy' that it's silly. They should have spent at least a minute trying to develop his character.

-Sylar, I really don't like where they are going with him. They are blaming everything he did on his powers but suddenly he gets some friends and he's a good guy?! He a god damned serial killer, or did we forget what happened to maya's brother even without "the hunger"  The whole point of sylar was that he was a heartless, analytical psychopath. He didn't kill for money or for some twisted morals like linderman, he killed for power and anyone that would get in the way of that. Suresh senior was also someone who "the hunger" wouldn't explain him killing.  They had made the perfect boogeyman in Sylar, one that could scare even villains but instead of pursuing that they opted instead to make him choose a side in this heroes/villains war when he never should have been on either.

-Maya was annoying but I'll miss that mocha beauty if she leaves for good.

-Fire mom, seriously we get it...you have fire powers. Do you really NEED to be holding out your flaming hand every time you meet someone new? It's like the annoying guy in mmo's that just HAS to show you his new epic weapon, dude calm down.

[Grimwell]

I agree about fire mom. I was thinking the same thing last night. Maybe they are trying to show that she is insecure and desperate for validation?

I liked the episode because it was all about positioning people for something big in the near future. Just as in previous seasons the characters are starting to converge into groups that will (most likely) all end up in the same place for a big event closing of the season. I just hope it's a good close and not a shark jump.

[Abagadro]

It's not jus the fire mom.  They are constantly referrencing all the powers ad nauseum.  If I hear Marlo say he gets stronger because of the fear one more time I'm going to scream.  Claire whines aout not feeling pain at least three times an ep.  They repeated the "wy didn't peter die" line three times. We get it okay?  I think the writers think the audience is as dumb as the characters.

[Nevermore]

I think some NBC exec told the writers: "Your show is too confusing!  " and the constant reminders on the character's powers and the stupid voice-over at the beginning of the episodes is the result.

Edit: grammar snake

[Slyfeind]

Now that I think about it, a flashback episode could be interesting if we see Sylar's descent into evil, or seed of evil, or whatnot. And yeah, that narration needs to go away. We don't have to hear that Elle lost control of her powers. We can see it happen on that convenient screen thingie that came with our television sets.

[Nevermore]

-Petrelli senior seems like such a one-dimensional 'rawr i'm the big bad guy' that it's silly. They should have spent at least a minute trying to develop his character.

This is where the flashback episode could help.  Remember, Sylar started off the same way.

[Venkman]

I think some NBC exec told the writers: "Your show is too confusing!  " and the constant reminders on the character's powers and the stupid voice-over at the beginning of the episodes is the result.

Edit: grammar snake

This. Or they need to ensure each episode clearly explain who is/does what for new people or those who are lapsed viewers. This is executive "show ratings don't improve because of the audience you already have" thinking.

Further, on flashback episodes, they're needed to cover origin stories that are covered through the online graphic novel that only a niche of the third-season viewers are reading. So while you can skip over origins on the TV show, you need to get some people up to speed to answer the questions like "why is Pa Patrelli evil" or "how did Sylar go from 2+ seasons of sociopath to good guy". There's also origin stories they don't explain online at all, waiting for the show to do it first.

[Venkman]

Finally got around to it. It wasn't bad. While it was definitely a setup for future things, there's some interesting bits:

- Sylar didn't want to lose his powers to Dad but was still a family man after all
- Dad's as manipulative as Mom
- Primatech is still around at all. Wasn't sure about that one nor the fact that HRG was still working with them. I thought he was a lonewolf.

The flashback episode coming is more palpable because it looks like it jumps around a lot, like the whole thing is Hiro's spirit walk.

[NowhereMan]

So I hadn't been reading the comics (totally forgot about them), the amount of extra story and colour to the world is I like that there's extra stuff out there but I do kinda feel like not reading these before really left a lot of the world out for me. I guess there seems something odd about telling so much story for a TV show in online comics, but then I guess there's more than just the show and... I just feel a bit . I cannot decide whether I think it's a good thing or not.

[Samwise]

My take is if you don't think supplemental material is a good thing, don't look at it.

[Velorath]

Jesse Alexander and Jeph Loeb let go.

A major shake-up for the “Heroes” production staff took place this weekend, as writers/co-executive producers Jesse Alexander and Jeph Loeb have been let go from the program, this according to a report Sunday evening from Variety.

Both writers/producers have been with the show since its inception and have been instrumental in the production, running day-to-day operations under the guidance of series creator Tim Kring.

The change comes at a critical moment for the program, which has struggled in the ratings in its third season, down from Season Two, amid complaints from fans and critics about the direction of the program. According to Variety, the duo were “let go because of [NBC] execs' frustration with the creative direction of the show.”

Sunday evening, CBR News spoke exclusively with Loeb who said, “As of today, Jesse Alexander and I have left ‘Heroes.’ I'm incredibly proud to have been a big part of the success a show with eight Emmy nods and a win this year for NBC.com. I will miss the superb cast and writing staff and wish everyone the best.”

Loeb has completed writing/producing the fall finale, the last episode of the “Villains” chapter titled “War.”

Alexander commented on the dismissal Sunday evening on his blog. "I write this with a heavy heart. As of today I am no longer a writer/producer on 'Heroes.' I could not be prouder of all the work I did on the show and wish all my Heroic Scribbler pals the very best."

For those who don't follow comics, Jeph Loeb is a fairly well known writer in the industry (and was also a writer/producer on the second season of Lost and a few seasons of Smallville), probably best known for writing Batman: The Long Halloween.  In recent times his writing has gone from decent (and overrated) to abysmal.  In particular he did a short run on Wolverine, that I can say without hyperbole are some of the worst comics I've ever read.  I don't want to sit here and bash the guy (he's been through some hard times in recent years, and don't like seeing anyone lose their job), but I think as far as Heroes goes, this can only be an improvement.

[Mazakiel]

I'd forgotten Loeb had written some of the recent Wolverine stuff.  That explains a lot.  Yeah, it sucks that he lost his job, but...oh well.  Maybe they can get Heroes back on track now. 

[Velorath]

I'd forgotten Loeb had written some of the recent Wolverine stuff.

Yep.  He's also currently writing the critically panned Red Hulk storyline.

[Venkman]

Is this the real problem with the show though? Season one was pretty damned good, but it had the benefit of being an origin story with a whole bunch of unknowns and a big cataclysmic problem a bunch of people weren't sure how to deal with. Season two seems like it was affected by the writer's strike but also didn't have much direction and a ho-hum main issue. Season three feels a bit more like season one in that you've got the same faces but with some origin-story-like issues (particularly Mohinder, Hiro not wanting to timewarp, Sylar).

I'm basically wondering how much of this is due to writers going from great to suck from first to third season versus the formula of the show really not able to be extended versus the office MBAs micromanaging focus groups and weekly ratings resulting in recurring from-the-hip course changes that destroy consistency.

Something's been going on, but I'm not convinced it's the same writers that gave us the first season.

[Mazakiel]

Well, while Loeb might have been writing for it since season 1, he wasn't the only one.  One of the writers for the first season was Bryan Fuller, who left to do Pushing Daisies.  Considering how awesome I've found the first season and the few episodes of the second of that I've had time to watch so far, I'm thinking he was a big part of what made the first season work.  He was apparently the one who wrote the "Company Man" episode, which I thought was one of the high points of the first season.  Add in he was behind Dead Like Me and involved in Wonderfalls and Amazing Screw-On Head.  So really, I'm thinking he was the lifeblood of the first season. 

[stray]

Get Showtime and HBO. Bump some real threads. 

[Velorath]

Comin from the guy who made the Smallville thread...

[stray]

Smallville is much more entertaining, even without Lex. Heroes is dogshit.

[edit] Actually, let me put it this way. Smallville has managed to have some life in it in it's 8th season. Heroes already lost me on it's 2nd. And a lot of other people.

[Slyfeind]

Oh wow. Smallville died after its third season, when they started going "OMG NEXT EPISODE WE REALLY MEAN IT CLARK WILL FLY AND HAVE A SUPER SUIT AND FIGHT DOOMSDAY AND EVERYBODY WILL REALLY REALLY CALL HIM SUPERMAN WITH MUSIC BY JOHN WILLIAMS!!!" and the "next episode" turned out to be Clark hanging around in the bathroom for an hour trying to poo without making the toilet explode. After they did this for three years I kinda gave up on it.

[HaemishM]

I'd forgotten Loeb had written some of the recent Wolverine stuff.

Yep.  He's also currently writing the critically panned Red Hulk storyline.

Which has been total shit. Loeb has REALLY REALLY lost what little he had and probably needs to take a fucking vacation to recharge his writing battery. I don't see him off of Heroes as a bad thing at all.

They are definitely building for a fall finale. Big fucking power war is what it ought to be. We still don't really have any kind of good motivation for Peter's dad being evil - the "give everyone powers" thing seems rather stupid. Would you really want some of the guys you used to drink with in high school to have super powers, especially when you can't control what powers they get?

[Samwise]

I was thinking about that, and I'm not so sure it ends up being random.  In the flash-forward episode, we saw everyone having the ability to fly.  And we already know that Nathan's flight ability was introduced artificially.  Coincidence?