Religious In-Laws Advice please.

[Paelos]

Moved Paelos' latest religion discussion over to there:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=14235.0

Ah, to that place I don't go. It's probably for the best.

[Samwise]

How about agreeing to "watch" the kid and then taking it for a covert baptisim at the Church.  I seem to recall hearing about that little gem once before.

A famous family story is that my mom's two brothers got horribly drunk and baptized me themselves. Apparently, they'd heard that in an emergency  two Catholics in good standing could do that.  They even remembered to bless the beer before dousing me with it.

I read up on that at one point (IIRC I had a friend in high school who wanted to convert to Catholicism but didn't want to do a big church thing, so I was trying to figure out if I could baptize her myself in a drinking fountain).  Turns out that such baptisms are "better than nothing", but that's about it; they're only appropriate in cases where someone's about to die, wants desperately to be baptized before they die, and they can't find a priest in time.  You're supposed to use the purest water you can find (not beer), and I there are some special disclaimers you're supposed to throw into the standard baptism rite if you're not a priest or otherwise not sure if the baptism is valid.  And after all that, if by some miracle the dying person you baptized pulls through, they're supposed to go see a priest ASAP and get baptized "for real".  Because the emergency layperson baptism is the spiritual equivalent of a spare tire; you don't want to rely on it for the rest of your life.

Sadly, I don't think your nonconsensual beer baptism officially "counted".

[Reg]

Well rats. I guess it's Limbo for me then!

[NowhereMan]

Nope, you've had the opportunity to convert through knowledge of Jesus and haven't taken him up on his offer. I'm pretty sure this means you're going to the hot place.

Maybe Paelos should threaten to stop speaking to you for your own good, we could start another thread about it and derail it into a debate on Christianity

Also since I don't think I've mentioned it yet, good luck Penn and glad to hear your wife's coping.

[Samwise]

Well rats. I guess it's Limbo for me then!

That's awfully optimistic of you.   

[slog]

Well rats. I guess it's Limbo for me then!

Sorry Man, pope says Limbo is out

I guess all those souls there get to go somewhere else or something.

[Amarr HM]

Your approach so far sounds like an extremely good one any confontration sounds like it can only lead to more aggravation for both sides I mean I really can't see what you can say or do til they cool down or see reason. It sounds like there's more to this than mere religion perhaps and I think it's completely your partners job to sort this out they are her parents you shouldn't be left having to carry a burden of guilt for something you do or don't believe in. She should find out what their real reasons are and if it just religion she should explain that her beliefs are of her own choice and the way they are behaving is really hurting her and you. A good comeback against true catholics is always the this isn't very Christian of you they can never squirm out of that one believe me I'm Irish catholic ethnicity it's a charm. Oh and also remember your not the first person to not got along with their in-laws its a fairly common thing so don't let it get to you.

[Ironwood]

Christ, if they're that pissy now, what the hell are they going to do when you launch the bomb 'Yeah and We Totally Had Sex Before Marriage.  LOTS.'

 

[CharlieMopps]

Oooo... yea, you guys should totally make a sex tape and post it on youtube.

[tazelbain]

And put a message in it that asks people to call your in-laws and tell them about it.

[Merusk]

Oooo... yea, you guys should totally make a sex tape and post it on youtube.

Youtube deletes that stuff very quickly.

Youporn, however, would be glad to host it.

[Signe]

I thought Paelos had given up religion in favour of beer!

[Paelos]

I thought Paelos had given up religion in favour of beer!

That's those crazy baptists. 

[Signe]

I'm sorry.  I always get religion and beer confused.  I should pray to St. Pauli Girl for forgiveness.

[Sjofn]

You know, I was raised Catholic. I'm that nominally kind of "can't quite shake it" Catholic now (as was mentioned before, it just gets in your bones somehow). My parents and siblings are varying degrees of Catholic. My grandmother said the rosary every goddamn day for as long as she was able. Not one of them gave even the tiniest shit that I married an atheist in a civil ceremony. It completely boggles my mind that people can be such assholes. ><

[DraconianOne]

It completely boggles my mind that people can be such assholes. ><

That's religion for ya.  I knew a girl who was disowned by her very Jewish parents because she got engaged to someone outside the faith.  They didn't go the wedding and as far as I know, have never seen their grandson. The only people grumbling at my wedding were on my wife's side and all because we had both a priest and a vicar performing the ceremony. I heard that there were people on her side who weren't happy that she was marrying someone who was raised a Catholic but at least we were getting married in a C of E church. They're lucky - if I'd had my way, it would have been a civil ceremony.  (They haven't seen their nephew and niece yet - but that's more because they actually are assholes and have never bothered to ask.)

[Khaldun]

This sounds a bit familiar. I went through with a Catholic marriage ceremony to make my wife's family happy, though my wife was already not particularly devout at that point in her life and has entirely lapsed since. Since I was baptized a Catholic, I could not get out of a lot of the flummery that even the very cool and relaxed Catholic priest we found was unable to avoid, and there were very high levels of bullshit involved. We went ahead and had our smallish own non-Catholic ceremony later in the day, which we all very much enjoyed.

My mother-in-law became aware that I was an agnostic some time ago, and put a lot of pressure on myself and my wife early on because of it. Our strategy was largely just to bend in the wind--say pleasant, non-commital things, ignore her, and try not to be around her too much, which over time got easier due to distance and her increasing unwillingness to travel. I never lied or professed anything I didn't believe in, but I learned quickly not to be pugnacious or aggressive about religious issues, either. There wasn't any reward for doing so. At times, my mother-in-law could be almost funny by accident--after one visit we found a ton of St. Jude medals and pictures hidden in our books and drawers and under my pillow. Though of course it was also annoying to know she'd been poking through our stuff when we weren't in the room.

I think you've got to have your spouse on your side in this, though--that's the first task, to make sure that you're both determined to make it a non-issue, and have an agreement that the spouse whose relatives are causing the issue is the first line of defense. It's no good when you're left exposed to an attack that you feel is very difficult to respond to because it's not the people you grew up with and you don't have the same sense of familiarity or intimacy that lets you fight back against something seriously intrusive.

Over time, most people just let this stuff slide. If they really won't, and keep at you year after year after year, eventually you have to quietly let there be consequences--phone calls unanswered, family gatherings skipped, cards unsent, contacts unmade. Don't announce this or make a big show out of it--it's best done slowly and accumulatively. If eventually someone asks honestly, "Why don't we see you so much?" then you give an honest answer: because you are unprepared to embrace who we are, only who you want us to be.

[Pennilenko]

I promise im not a crackhead, and she's not a whore, hehe. That gave me some chuckles though. I've learned more in the last day or two. This info is from her sister who has been in europe for a couple of months and just returned.

My wife is not sad anymore and has moved into really pissed off teritory.

Her mom recently lost her own mother and is now taking care of a pretty tart disabled old man who is pretty mean and nasty.(<-----We knew about this) (This info from the sister, we didnt know any of this -------->) Her sister is sure this grandfather has a pretty substantial estate and will. He is soon to go.  Shes not part of the crazies. She said the old man is making threats about the estate based on devoutness of his family and wether or not they are pious enough to inherit from him. They had a pow wow with the sister when she got back and told her that she has to talk some sense into my wife. That being married to me is going to ruin the family (bye bye money tree).

I've got things that I want to say to them. My wife won't let me though. However, some small hope, her sister told my wife to fight the good fight. My wife and I are pretty sure theres only one relative thats going to know their nieces and nephews when we have em.

Its so far fetched I'm not sure i beleive it. However, you can't make this stuff up. From my own family experiences, this sort of crap is all over the place. Never seen my wife mad or angry even one time, until she got off the phone with her sister.

Ohh, forgot to add. The grandfather kept his estate a secret, sopposedly to keep the vultures from circling. It was a slip on an attorneys part that let the cat out of the bag when my wifes grandmother passed. Which interestingly enough happened about 7ish months ago. They didn't tell my wife about her grandmother for a couple of weeks or so.

And I really thought these people were nice, I even envied my wife her family life, after comparing to mine. Not so much now.

[schild]

Your wife's family is sick. And your wife's grandfather is a mean old bastard.

[lamaros]

That's religion people for ya.

To be fair people do fuckwittery like this for stuff much more trivial than religion. A friend of my brother-in-law is no longer speaking with his sister because he married a woman who was 10+ years older than himself. I'm sure we can come up with a whole lot of stupid reasons for domestic dispites like this one that have nothing to do with religion.

And like Penn just said, this isn't really about religion anyway, it's about money.

[Oban]

Can not stress this enough, do not say anything bad about your wife's family in front of your wife.

[DraconianOne]

To be fair people do fuckwittery like this for stuff much more trivial than religion. A friend of my brother-in-law is no longer speaking with his sister because he married a woman who was 10+ years older than himself. I'm sure we can come up with a whole lot of stupid reasons for domestic dispites like this one that have nothing to do with religion.

This is very true. We have a very dysfunctional relationship with various members of my wifes family.  Like her brother who we don't talk to on account of the woman he married. Not because we don't approve - well, it is because we don't approve but we don't approve because she's a mean, spiteful, rude, selfish, vindictive bitch-troll cunt who he's better off without (if it weren't for the three kids involved).  She has managed to alienate most of the members of his family (most recently his grandmother) and most of his friends and we're now just watching from the sidelines waiting to see how she pisses off the last relations who are still talking to them.

Its so far fetched I'm not sure i beleive it. However, you can't make this stuff up.

It does actually sound like the plot of a Grisham novel (perhaps "The Summons"?)

[Cyrrex]

Crikey, what hypocrisy.  Hopefully your wife can see what her family truly values most, because it sure ain't religion or family.

[Khaldun]

One thing that sort of vaguely occurs to me is that it's not entirely impossible that the grandfather/inheritance thing is being exaggerated or even invented precisely to try and force proper religious behavior. I mean, the grandfather part is entirely credible, sure--I had a friend when I was growing up whose very large extended family was dominated by just such a wealthy old Catholic elder patriarch who very much manipulated his children and grandchildren's religiosity with pursestrings. But I've also known some ardently religious people to be shockingly willing to invent contrivances that they believe will force people to convert or comply with religious demands.

[Cyrrex]

That would make sense if it had been that way from the beginning, but Penn says it came two years after they got married.  You could kind of tell something was missing from the story, and I think the Greedy Assholes subplot fits quite nicely.

[Reg]

I don't understand why they can't just lie to the silly old man - unless there's even more drama than we know about. Perhaps some aunt or cousin spilled the beans about the atheist wedding so there'd be more money for his side of the family.

[schild]

This family does not sound like one that is above backstabbery, blackmailing, and general bullshit. I would in fact, tell them to take their money and shove it up their ass. They're just sick.

[slog]

Can not stress this enough, do not say anything bad about your wife's family in front of your wife.

What he said.  This is important.

[Signe]

Families suck.  Tell them to all fuck off. 

My advice might suck, too.  Just so you know.

[HaemishM]

Crotchety old grandpa trying to extort religious conversions by holding over an inheritance?

Yeah, fuck these people. Fuck them in their tiny little earholes. Not just for the grandfather being a douchey cunt, but the rest of them for letting him get away with it just to get his filthy money. Gaggle of twats.

[Furiously]

You should invite grandpa over for dinner.

[HaemishM]

And then eat him.   

[Miasma]

You should invite grandpa over for dinner.

And tell him that if you don't get some of that money any kids you have won't be baptised and he'll never get to see his great grandchildren in heaven.  You need the money because you're only going Catholic if you can do it in style with expensive private Catholic schools and University .

[Pennilenko]

This family does not sound like one that is above backstabbery, blackmailing, and general bullshit. I would in fact, tell them to take their money and shove it up their ass. They're just sick.

We have decided together that we are not going to communicate with them further. We don't need the stress such affiliations will continue to cause.

[Signe]

If you put long wavy hair on your manga avatar, Pennilenko, you would look like Geddy Lee!  How can anyone not be nice to Geddy Lee?