Druid Questions

[Fordel]

I have no numbers or proof, but I'm guessing the lower ratings this season have more to do with fewer people in the arena then anything else.


If you are a 'welfare epics' player, losing your way to Arena gear, there is very little for you to actually GET this season that wouldn't already have from previous ones. So you don't do it as often (or at all) and the teams that were feeding off of you are now the new bottom, which in turn cuts them off from the rewards, which causes them to not play, which causes the people above them who were feeding off of THEM to be the newer 'bottom' etc.. etc...


Combine this with the pre-patch Blues and the "lol quest greens ftw in WoTLK!", I would not be surprised, even a little, if the Arena usage was down considerably.


But again, I have no way to prove this one way or the other, its mostly coming straight from my ass 

[Dren]

The entire pvp gear system is basically built on a failed model.

Let's see, we've got Team A, who is made of up extremely skilled players, and Team B, who is made up of average players. Put them on a level playing field, and Team A will win most of their games against Team B. Now let's reward them by giving them a giant gear advantage (and yes, in the aggregate, the difference between full season 4 and say full season 2 with a few pieces of 3, which is the best B will aspire to, is pretty huge.) Genius!

You forget that Team B is also able to build their gear up too.  At some point their inability to get better on their own merits will limit them though.  Without some system of allowing the mediocre to continue to get rewards, you'll just end up with a very small number of elite players that would win regardless of gear or not.  That kind of system doesn't play well to the masses, screwed up system or not.

I mentioned it actually. Team B can't get their gear as high as Team A, because the best gear has rating restrictions on it.

So you want Team B to get the same gear as Team A even though they aren't as good players?  Team B is going to lose to them regardless of items in your scenario.

I've honestly lost the entire point of this conversation now.

Let's say there is no item award in this scenario.  Team B still loses consistently to Team A.  Yet now they get no rewards regardless of win or lose?  What are you suggesting?

[Ingmar]

The entire pvp gear system is basically built on a failed model.

Let's see, we've got Team A, who is made of up extremely skilled players, and Team B, who is made up of average players. Put them on a level playing field, and Team A will win most of their games against Team B. Now let's reward them by giving them a giant gear advantage (and yes, in the aggregate, the difference between full season 4 and say full season 2 with a few pieces of 3, which is the best B will aspire to, is pretty huge.) Genius!

You forget that Team B is also able to build their gear up too.  At some point their inability to get better on their own merits will limit them though.  Without some system of allowing the mediocre to continue to get rewards, you'll just end up with a very small number of elite players that would win regardless of gear or not.  That kind of system doesn't play well to the masses, screwed up system or not.

I mentioned it actually. Team B can't get their gear as high as Team A, because the best gear has rating restrictions on it.

So you want Team B to get the same gear as Team A even though they aren't as good players?  Team B is going to lose to them regardless of items in your scenario.

I've honestly lost the entire point of this conversation now.

Let's say there is no item award in this scenario.  Team B still loses consistently to Team A.  Yet now they get no rewards regardless of win or lose?  What are you suggesting?

I'm suggesting that if you want sport PVP, you must have a level playing field. That means equal gear access regardless of skill level. If lower skill teams could get all the same gear, they'd have more incentive to keep participating and a better chance of improving their gameplay with more practice. As it is, most people don't stick with it any longer than it takes to get their S4 gloves.

Team A has a better chance to pull off that cool perfect game where they beat the better players and get that feeling of "woo!" that keeps people engaged in these kinds of activity if the system isn't built to screw them over.

[TheWall]

I always thought that when you entered the arena you should automatically be equipped with the basic S2 gear for your spec. Then everyone would be playing a game based on skill and their rewards would be deserved to use in world pvp and battlegrounds.

They basically did this for the arena tournament. Everyone had access to the best stuff to fight it out in.

[Zetor]

Yeah, I've been advocating gear-equality in arenas [and battlegrounds!] since forever. Give everyone the best gear available once they're inside (make it so you can set up your 'pvp set' at a vendor in major cities or something), and if they're good enough to get to high ratings, they can buy that gear to use -outside- of arenas and BGs.

Right now the system is kind of like chess where better-rated players [and those who've been playing for a long time] start with an extra queen replacing a pawn of their choice. Or star poker players having an extra card. Etc etc. The gear differential between s2 and s4 is substantial, and people in sub-s2 [ie those who don't want to farm BGs for several months] might as well be speedbumps. I know I can cleave through 2-3 blue geared people effortlessly in my s3 geared warrior.. even if they were to "outplay" me [unless it's 3 frost mages].

And that's only one of the things wrong with arenas atm, class balance (or lack thereof) and RNG-based abilities is neither here or there. 


-- Z.

[Dren]

I have to admit systems that provide an even playing field sound appealing to me.  However, my point still stands that if you don't provide the poor players some way of evening the field for themselves, they will not continue to play.

With an even playing field in terms of equipment, the only thing that separates the winners from the losers is talent build, tactics, and execution.

Talent builds can be learned or figured out just by visiting the community sites.  However, most casual players aren't going to do that.  In most cases, they don't really want a specific PvP spec because it is only a portion of what they do.

Tactics can also be learned, but reading about them is very limited.  You really have to practice over and over to really get the hang of it.  There is your time element.

Execution can not always be learned or even trained.  This really comes down to natural reaction, hand-eye coordination, etc.  Many and maybe most people will have trouble with this.  A select handful will be able to just whomp everyone else repeatedly due to this one.

Given this, the underdogs will only have loss after loss to look forward to without ANY recourse.  The losers will be able to watch the winners continue to get more and more "out of arena" stuff while they go lick their wounds yet again. 

The only way this will work is that the losers still get rewards that are desirable just based off of participation in the Arenas.  Even then, you are basically faced with the same problem you have now.  Good players will get the best stuff quickly and the bad players will never get as good of stuff and slower.

This may make it more of sport PvP, but it really does nothing to solve what most people complain about, time to achieve lewtz and status.  But, hey, at least it might be more fun?