FDA Clarification That High Fructose Corn Syrup Can Be Labeled Natural

[Engels]

I buy Mexican Cokes from my local Kroger grocery store.  They even come in glass bottles instead of crappy cans.  I love some hot pizza and a Mexican Coke.

This. Its always been amusing to me that Coke tastes better just about anywhere in the world than its country of origin, thanks to the use of HFCS here. Really, give it a shot. The difference is very noticeable.

[Yegolev]

There's a theory that the whole "Old Coke/New Coke" debacle back in the 80's was just a way for them to switch from cane sugar to HFCS and get people to thank them for it.

This is entirely possible since I was sure at the time that Coke Classic was some sort of third Coke since it didn't quite taste like the original.  Put something nasty in people's mouths and they might forget what the original taste was... I can see these people doing that because we spend massive amounts of money on sugar.  Massive.

[schild]

This would bother me if I drank anything that had sugar or HFCS in it. But really, meh, if you're not drinking diet you're only hurting yourself.

[Musashi]

Things that happen in nature are natural.  I think the word we're looking for is, "Biohazard."

[Oban]

Cyanide is natural.

So is lead.

Meh.

[naum]

There's a theory that the whole "Old Coke/New Coke" debacle back in the 80's was just a way for them to switch from cane sugar to HFCS and get people to thank them for it.

I've always believed this too. New Coke got replaced by "Classic" Coke, which was HFCS based and not sugar, like the "Old" coke.

At that time, I was attending university and worked overnight at a local grocery store unloading and stocking shelves. I used to tune in to Jim Bohannon radio show over the speakers, and distinctly remember him jonesing for a "sugar"-ified old coke in addition to a break of 3 weeks of straight work. For some reason, I remember a caller telling him that Hawaii was still serving up sugar cokes and odd vending machines that still had old stock…

[Arnold]

Its heavily processed, and long past being "Natural". Natural has a very short "From dirt to mouth" time span IMO, i will continue to ATTEMPT to avoid it in my foods.

The worst part of all of it is, it will now cost more. Watch.

I'm not trying to defend HFCS here, but cane sugar lasts a long damn time without going bad.  So does flour for that matter.  And rice.  And lard.  And etc...

[apocrypha]

I'm not trying to defend HFCS here, but cane sugar lasts a long damn time without going bad.  So does flour for that matter.  And rice.  And lard.  And etc...

That reminds me of how clever bees are. They put hydrogen peroxide into early honey to stop it from decaying until they've got the sugar concentration in it high enough to inhibit bacterial growth. Bees are awesome.

Er, anyway, yeah. HFCS is such a great example of the market fucking things up. They taste worse than cane sugars, they're possibly really bad for you (although the research both for and against that has been pretty badly done and really isn't conclusive) and they're more complicated to make than cane sugars. Yet because of economics your Americans are awash with the things.

However, there does seem to be an increasingly universal hatred and distrust of HFCS in the US. Won't that lead to some kind of consumer backlash at some point? My GF's sister-in-law lives in Tennessee and she scours the packets of everything she buys to make sure she's not giving her 2 toddlers any HFCS's. If they make HFCS disappear from the ingredients list then she won't give up, I know her. If it ends up with those kinds never eating or drinking anything processed again then that's what she'll do, and I'm sure she's not alone in that.

[Engels]

would that be such a bad thing?

[Yegolev]

I'm not just against HFCS, I'm generally against processed foods.  It's really fucking difficult to avoid, but I can get the low-hanging fruit like "cheese" made from hydrogenated corn oil and things that turn your tongue funny colors.

[Sky]

We were getting some cheese the other night and overheard a funny debate between a younger couple over what kind of cheese to get. The yellow or the white.

[schild]

We were getting some cheese the other night and overheard a funny debate between a younger couple over what kind of cheese to get. The yellow or the white.

Funny and sad are way too close to eachother in the spectrum of how one should judge other people.

[Sky]

To be usefully cynical, for the children: the white and yellow processed american cheese is the same product except for the dye added to the yellow cheese.

[Yegolev]

I've been told Velveeta is clear without the coloring.  Yum.

[Nebu]

There exist MANY natural dyes by the by.  This is why the "natural" label is pretty meaningless.  I tend to think of things being "natural" if you get them in their natural state.  The FDA believes otherwise.  Anything for a buck.

[Morat20]

The worst part of all of it is, it will now cost more. Watch.

The whole point of HFCS is that it's much cheaper to make than regular table sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar, etc.). If the price goes up too much (like from the rising cost of corn) manufacturers will just switch to cheaper forms of sugar.

IIRC, it's only cheaper to use HFCS than real sugar because of insanely high trade barriers put into place at the behest of the corn industry.

In short, it's cheaper to use corn because the people that grow corn spent a lot of money to make Congress make it that way.

I don't doubt for an instant that the corn lobby's reaction to higher corn prices pushing HFCS past sugar's price would be to get those tariffs raised.

[Lantyssa]

I'm not trying to defend HFCS here, but cane sugar lasts a long damn time without going bad.  So does flour for that matter.  And rice.  And lard.  And etc...

Crystals are an inherently stable form of solid.  Get it wet and leave it out for a while and it won't be so good.

[naum]

Bingo.

HFCS is a primary product but its inception was oriented around what to do with all the excess corn (though all/most of this isn't the kind of corn you eat with your barbecue) grown and HFCS was a sort of recapture/recycle deal. It's been a while since I studied this, so I might be a little fuzzy on details, but that is the gist of it.

The worst part of all of it is, it will now cost more. Watch.

The whole point of HFCS is that it's much cheaper to make than regular table sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar, etc.). If the price goes up too much (like from the rising cost of corn) manufacturers will just switch to cheaper forms of sugar.

IIRC, it's only cheaper to use HFCS than real sugar because of insanely high trade barriers put into place at the behest of the corn industry.

In short, it's cheaper to use corn because the people that grow corn spent a lot of money to make Congress make it that way.

I don't doubt for an instant that the corn lobby's reaction to higher corn prices pushing HFCS past sugar's price would be to get those tariffs raised.

[Oz]

But really, meh, if you're not drinking diet you're only hurting yourself.

Except for, you know, Aspartame (demylinates nuerons) and splenda (destroys your liver).

Mabye should read: But really, meh, if you're not drinking water you're only hurting yourself.

Nothing is safe these days.  I'll stick to my water/beer/whiskey for drinking.  (I prefer my liver damage over many many many years)

[NowhereMan]

Pretty much everything you can eat/drink can do horrible things to your body in some way (even if it's just as a vector for bacteria/parasites). That said I'll go with Oz and destroy my body in the grand tradition of humanity everywhere. Why fuck with something that's served us well so far?

[Abagadro]

That's why I only drink grain alcohol and rain water.

[Paelos]

That's why I only drink grain alcohol and rain water.

And here I thought lawyers only drank the Blood of the Innocent, with a splash of Grey Goose.

[Numtini]

We were getting some cheese the other night and overheard a funny debate between a younger couple over what kind of cheese to get. The yellow or the white.

You're trying to make me cry aren't you.

[eldaec]

I always struggle to understand how any ingredients can be considered 'unnatural'.

The day someone starts making food out of zombie flesh I might reconsider.

[Trippy]

Do you consider hydrogenated oils natural? How about Olestra or Aspartame?

[eldaec]

I don't consider them healthy, I don't consider them something I want to eat.

But I don't see what is 'unnatural' about them?

[Trippy]

I don't consider them healthy, I don't consider them something I want to eat.

But I don't see what is 'unnatural' about them?

Well one definition of "natural" is something that's not strictly man-made -- i.e. it can be found in nature assuming humans weren't around.

[eldaec]

Rules out any cooked food then?

[Oban]

Forest fires, lightning strikes, volcanic eruptions of red hot magma...

[eldaec]

Hydrogenated fats are back in then.

It's just mixing stuff up and heating/cooling interesting combinations of stuff.

[Trippy]

You should work for the food industry as a PR person.

[eldaec]

I have no problem with people banning Hydrogenated fats, or putting big red spiky labels on such things that say THIS IS TEH EBIL.

But doing so because they aren't 'natural' is meaningless nonsense. In this context the term is something made up by woolly thinking hippies and captured by middle class food marketing executives none of whom have any idea what they mean by it.

Even if there was some practical way to define 'natural' in terms of how commonly a substance is found in the environment around us, it wouldn't be useful, since common has no particular relationship with healthy.

'Organic' is my other favourite nonsense marketing term. What? Is the rest of the food I've been eating not carbon based? OMG my fridge must be full of sand! wtf?

[IainC]

In most countries the term 'organic' when applied to food means that the product meets certain specific criteria for use of pesticides, additives and animal feed. It doesn't have the same meaning that it would have to a chemist but that doesn't make it a useless distinction.

It sounds as though in the US at least 'natural' also has a specific definition for food labels although the bar appears to be pretty low.

[Musashi]

I think that's the problem that most people have with terms like organic and natural.  It makes them feel dirty when they think of tree-sitting hippies foisting retarded propaganda on their food.  I help my grandma set up a persimmon stand every year.  Her persimmon tree is her pride and joy.  One year some bitch asked her if her persimmons were organic.  It was funny because she's like 84, and completely unaware of the 'organic' food movement.  So she was like wtf are you talking about.  So the lady explained that she didn't buy shit with chemicals or fertilizer.  And my Grandma said, "Well we fertilize the lawn..."  She didn't buy my Grandmas persimmons.  Grandma was bent.

Nobody wants to eat unhealthy shit.  But sometimes our ideas about that differ.

So why not label stuff, "This product contains x, which should be used sparingly or it will kill you?"  But based on empirical data, not soccer mom dieting trends.

[Nebu]

Nobody wants to eat unhealthy shit.  But sometimes our ideas about that differ.

Sorry, but this is dead wrong.  People want to eat what tastes good and makes them happy.  Sure, people PRETEND to want to eat healthy.  When it comes down to the real decision making, the numbers don't lie.  People want high fat processed crap because it tastes good. 

We ALL know what is healthy, yet the majority to choose otherwise.  It's denial and a blind faith that the medical establishment will bail them out for their life of bad choices.  Heart disease, obesity, and the use of pharmaceuticals are up yet I can always find dusty bags of brown rice and dried beans on the grocery shelf.