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jpark
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on: October 28, 2004, 05:38:44 PM

As you know to obtain certain badges certain villian types must be found and 'arrested".  In this case we had to find wolves and vampyr in Founders Fall and slaughter these guys.  Tedious?

Here's what we did:  1 scrapper (level 38), 2 controllers (levels 33, 37).

Both controllers flew through the city (Flight pool) and used stealth (Concealment pool) to avoid detection by snipers on the buildings.  When we saw a villian type of interest on the ground, we would call it out, and summon (Teleport pool) our scrapper and drop him from about 100 feet in the air straight down into the hot zone.

Scrapper opens a can of whoop ass - the controller leaves scouting for the next drop zone.  With both controllers scouting and summoning - we did this quest in no time.

/fanboi on

It was great combat variety - unlike any combat I had ever had in any MMORPG.  Not even a raid.  Flying overhead, identifying a target and then summoning your bud to drop from the sky and land on these guys was great fun.

It's just another thing that is cool about this game:  the depth and scope of strategic options is so great you can get truely unique combat mechanics.

/fanbio off

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
SurfD
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Reply #1 on: October 29, 2004, 12:56:11 AM

Two questions:

1: Did your controllers still get credit for the kills?  In the hunt badges, i thought you had to stay pretty close together (like, within sidekick range) for the kill to count for your team mates?

2: some hunt badges are WAY WAY easy if you have a friend with an outdoor mission that spawns the needed villian group.  Get a group of 8 people in the outdoor mission that spawns Warriors fighting Tsoo, and you get a boss in every spawn.  Did the warriors kill badge in two runs through an outdoor mission like that.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
jpark
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Reply #2 on: October 29, 2004, 09:26:55 AM

Quote from: SurfD
Two questions:

1: Did your controllers still get credit for the kills?  In the hunt badges, i thought you had to stay pretty close together (like, within sidekick range) for the kill to count for your team mates?


You're right but how close is not clear.  Certainly seems to be beyond sidekick range but I honestly don't know how far.  It also depends on class type I hear - if you have a scrapper just sitting there who is not in on the kill - he gets no credit - but if it is a healer / controller it seems this rule does not apply (still learning about this).

(not sure what the second question is but we had no outdoor mission to spawn the vampyr or war wolves in this case)

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Sable Blaze
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Reply #3 on: October 29, 2004, 09:27:05 AM

Actually, this is pretty close to what I do. Teleport to rootops around the square where the nazis hang out. Stomp any snipers rude enough to interrupt my routine. Watch for wolves (done with vampyrs, but same deal) and teleport right on top of them and take out the trash.

I've gotten a few surprises once I hit ground level (unseen vampyrs or lurking rikti drones), but it is sorta fun. I've gotten a few surprises on rooftops (rikti chief soldiers and mentalists evidently like the fresh air up high as well).

Most memorable moment was teleporting onto a previously unoccupied ledge to find a freshly spawned chief soldier. Knocked him off with headsplitter, watched him fall about 30 stories into a canal, then dived off after him to administer the coup de grace. Fun stuff.
jpark
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Reply #4 on: October 29, 2004, 09:29:20 AM

Even to this day - when I use teleport to travel - especially to scale large bulidings (where you drop like hell between each successive teleport when you try to go vertical) it really give me a sense of vertigo.  hehe wuss that I am my fear of heights sometimes rears its head in CoH lol.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Sable Blaze
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Reply #5 on: October 29, 2004, 09:34:21 AM

I get that same feeling. Tippy-toeing around rooftops to look at the streets sooooo far below. Definate queasy feelings when teleporting to the rooftops of skyscrapers in Crey's Folly, or the spires around the Hive in Eden.

Heh. I haven't had that feeling in any other game that I"ve played.

I did fall from a skyscraper in Founder's Falls once when  fumbled a TP keystroke. Almost 700 damage taken at street level. I'm just glad it wasn't into the middle of some behemoth overlord's little soiree.
Merusk
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Reply #6 on: October 29, 2004, 09:41:58 AM

Quote from: Sable Blaze
I did fall from a skyscraper in Founder's Falls once when  fumbled a TP keystroke. Almost 700 damage taken at street level. I'm just glad it wasn't into the middle of some behemoth overlord's little soiree.


Falling damage, like everything in COH seems to be % based.  I had my wife teleport me as my scrapper to the top of the tallest skyscraper in KR so I could jump off.  When I landed I took around 900 damage, leaving me barely alive.  A fall from nearly the same height should have killed my TP-power controller, but didn't. Both falls left them both with about the same % of health from a full life bar.


Hmm.. Scrapper Airstrikes.  I finished off the CoT badge the other day in an hour or so in Hollows on my own.  Your way sounds much more fun, though.  I'll have to remember it when we go after the Tsoo/Trolls later.

(And as a side note on titles, I wish I'd known the mission I completed the other day gave the 'Pwnz' title.  I've seen folks offering 300k influence to go on that mission. D'oh.)

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Sky
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Reply #7 on: October 29, 2004, 09:57:50 AM

It's pretty cool how much impact just a couple of pool powers have on a character. I got stamina and it almost felt like I had activated a cheat code, and it's only got one enh slot with a DO right now (couldn't find a 25 SO regen increase for some reason, got plenty of dough).

Then when I decided to respec I grabbed Stealth to try it out and it's staying, incredibly useful power and totally changes how I play my flying blaster, so few adds these days (well, I also spent a little time actually playing around with aggro radii and facings, etc and their effect on pulls).

But that bit about dropping a scrapper in on the action, damn if that doesn't sound like a wolvy/colossus fastball special variant ;) And THAT is tres cool imo.
Fargull
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Reply #8 on: October 29, 2004, 10:19:02 AM

Quote from: Sky
It's pretty cool how much impact just a couple of pool powers have on a character. I got stamina and it almost felt like I had activated a cheat code, and it's only got one enh slot with a DO right now (couldn't find a 25 SO regen increase for some reason, got plenty of dough).


Sorry Sky,

Unless you get a lucky drop the only SO End Regen start at 30 on the quest vendors.  When you hit 27th, find someone thirty who will buy them for you.  Makes a world of difference if you think Stam feels like cheating now.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
jpark
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Reply #9 on: October 29, 2004, 10:41:00 AM

Quote from: Sky
Then when I decided to respec I grabbed Stealth to try it out and it's staying, incredibly useful power and totally changes how I play my flying blaster, so few adds these days (well, I also spent a little time actually playing around with aggro radii and facings, etc and their effect on pulls).


Good stuff.  People in this game still don't see how useful the Concealment power pool is.  You know what my controller does?  He body pulls.

Example.  Tank / scrapper is in unyielding stance killing villians around him.  I turn on Phase Shift and go run to other villian groups - they pound on me (but cannot hurt me with PS on) and I just walk back to the Tank / scrapper with the train of villians following me.

Phase shift is also good for cluster fucks.  If you find yourself grouping with unknowns - good skill to have - since it's activation is a get out of jail free card when it looks like the party is going to wipe or if the healer is out of endurance.

5th column drones can see though invisibility so sometimes Phase Shift is necessary for scouting.  Folks are alerted to you - but cannot harm you while you map.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Fargull
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Reply #10 on: October 29, 2004, 11:21:03 AM

jpark,

Am thinking about getting PS for my blaster, but have heard some mixed things at the later levels.  Namely that AOE damage hits you in PS.  Do you know if that is crap or true?

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #11 on: October 29, 2004, 11:51:52 AM

Quote
Unless you get a lucky drop the only SO End Regen start at 30 on the quest vendors. When you hit 27th, find someone thirty who will buy them for you

That was my suspicion. I've been going through my contacts trying to find a science vendor, gotta do a bunch of missions before you know for sure, though the prose in their description gives a pretty good clue (as does the mob type they send you against), in which case I didn't get a science contact for my level, which kinda sucks as a science hero...
Fargull
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Reply #12 on: October 29, 2004, 11:58:03 AM

If your on Virtue, I would be happy to help.  All my toons are on there.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
jpark
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Reply #13 on: October 29, 2004, 12:07:01 PM

Quote from: Fargull
jpark,

Am thinking about getting PS for my blaster, but have heard some mixed things at the later levels.  Namely that AOE damage hits you in PS.  Do you know if that is crap or true?


Never happened to me and man I have stood in the middle of absolute mayham unscathed (including respec TFs).

Two things will kill you in PS (in my experience):

1.  Rest.  Never hit the rest button while in PS - if you do - the protection drops.

2.  Interdimensional beings.  They introduced a new mob awhile back from another dimension - it was spawning in cities for about a week - have not see it since.  It can penetrate PS.

The power does take a few seconds to activate - other than that - I highly recommend it.  My controller and scrapper have both used it.  It is costly - I have 2 endurance reductions SOs on it - but that allows me to have the power on, fly and heal myself all at the same time.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #14 on: October 29, 2004, 12:13:18 PM

Quote from: Fargull
If your on Virtue, I would be happy to help.  All my toons are on there.

Woops, sorry. Forgot to mention I'm on Victory (where BC is).
SurfD
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Reply #15 on: October 30, 2004, 11:17:55 PM

Just a few clarifications on Phaze shift (my blaster loves it):

Will agree with Jpark, NEVER ever rest with phaze shift up.  Used to be that you COULD rest while phazed (interestingly enough, things COULD hit you through the phaze while resting). Now, resting causes Phaze to drop.

Phaze uses a lot of end.  If you get it before you get stamina, expect it to suck end like crazy (phaze+fly = really rapid end drain)

Interdimentional beings: I would assume these were the Rularru critters that were coming in from portals to the Shadow Shard during the event for the release of Update Two.  If they WERE hitting you through phaze, chances are it was a bug.  Phaze has so far allowed me to run around most of the Rularru critters in Firebase Zulu missions without harm.

The biggest problem with Phaze as a last ditch "save my ass from that thing that is killing me cause I just ran out of respites" power is that it has about a 2.5 to 3 second windup animation where you pray to god something doesent kill you as you wait for the effect to kick in.  When you start it up you cease ALL movement, and stand there during the animation (remember the Tsoo Ancestor Spirits, and how you could kill them if you got a high damage attack off when you saw them start the animation for their Phaze?).   Phaze against anything that stuns/mezzes is also a pain in the ass, as chances are, it will stun you while you are trying like mad to trigger the power off.

That being said, if i had one more pool set to choose from, I would SOOO have Phaze shift and Teleport other.  The ability to run ANYWHERE on a map with total lack of fear and then summon your entire team to your location makes ghosting some missions a brease.

Another thing to note with Phaze, is that while it is up, you are TOTALLY unaffected by EVERYTHING in the game, harmfull and helpfull powers both.  While Phazed, allies can not heal, buff, or teleport you.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
jpark
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Reply #16 on: October 31, 2004, 12:28:52 PM

SurfD - yup activation time is a problem - but the only real trade-off in using this ability.

Keep in mind that invis or stealth can be active while PS is on.  This is useful.  You walk though 5th column map (drones detect invis) with PS on but decide you need to summon upon arriving at your destination.  You activate stealth with PS on - and find a corner somewhere as you lose the aggro.  Drop PS while stealth provides basic evasion from detection - and summon your mate.

ALSO - for timed missions where you have get bodies/clues, you can just do the whole mission while invisible, which includes clicking on items for clues (different if you have to rescue hostages held by folks you must kill).  Timed missions of this nature can be done in minutes and are a frequent timed mission type.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Mesozoic
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Reply #17 on: October 31, 2004, 01:58:23 PM

I still use SS + Stealth for my invisibility.

Fast? Check.  Invisible?  Check.  Defense bonus?  Check.

And at 24 I got SJ, so I can also make a complete mockery of any distance.

EDIT:  I realize that PS is not the same as invis.  But the point is that SS + Stealth will allow you to zip around missions, avoid snipers, and generally be an ass.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
jpark
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Reply #18 on: October 31, 2004, 02:08:06 PM

Quote from: Mesozoic
I still use SS + Stealth for my invisibility.

Fast? Check.  Invisible?  Check.  Defense bonus?  Check.

And at 24 I got SJ, so I can also make a complete mockery of any distance.

EDIT:  I realize that PS is not the same as invis.  But the point is that SS + Stealth will allow you to zip around missions, avoid snipers, and generally be an ass.


That does sound good.  Never worked with super speed.  Any comments on the whirlwind for that pool?

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
SurfD
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Reply #19 on: November 01, 2004, 01:19:46 AM

Quote from: Mesozoic
I still use SS + Stealth for my invisibility.

Fast? Check.  Invisible?  Check.  Defense bonus?  Check.


Hmm, not quite as safe as Phaze shift.
I say this, mainly because you are not 100% undetectable, even if you think you are. You ARE pretty much invisible at a decent range, but things WILL see through it if you have to pass by them in really tight spaces. (I could be wrong tho).  
The easy way to check, is to turn on SS and Stealth, and run up to a Rikti Drone.  Chances are, the drone (and everything else in its combat group), is going to turn on you and open fire (you learn this the hard way when you decide to go running around the Abandoned Sewer and have to run through nasty rikti packs)

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
SurfD
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Reply #20 on: November 01, 2004, 01:23:18 AM

Quote from: jpark
That does sound good.  Never worked with super speed.  Any comments on the whirlwind for that pool?


I have heard Whirlwind is nice simply for the ability to totally own bosses with it from mele range through "pulsing".  Run up to boss, turn Whirl on, wait for knockdown to occur, turn it off, whack boss a few times, pulse Whirl back on and off just as boss is getting back up.  Repeat till dead.  Need to slot it with accuracy/recharge, but other then that, it is almost exploit worthy.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Sable Blaze
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Reply #21 on: November 01, 2004, 07:47:40 AM

It is exploit worthy; that's why it no longer works on bosses (at least those of reasonable level). I don't recall the revised mechanics of it, but it's mostly minions-only, or of very limited utility on bosses and LTs.

I'd have to find the thread(s) on it again, but it's simply a situational tool now, not a cure-all for boss woes.
Fargull
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Reply #22 on: November 01, 2004, 08:34:27 AM

Well..

Did the Frostfire mission last night, which is one of the Hollow missions near the end of the line and was it interesting.  The boss man could summon both imps and jack frosts, but what made the mission a challenge is the whole zone was cris-crossed with ice.  The ice ment you movement never stopped when on it.  You would go sliding, the bad guys would go sliding.. was damn damn fun.  If you get a shot at seeing it, it is worth a little debt, but damn did it take a while.  Got five bubbles worth of xp and only one death at 12th.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
Mesozoic
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Reply #23 on: November 01, 2004, 08:34:52 AM

Quote from: SurfD
Quote from: Mesozoic
I still use SS + Stealth for my invisibility.

Fast? Check.  Invisible?  Check.  Defense bonus?  Check.


Hmm, not quite as safe as Phaze shift.
I say this, mainly because you are not 100% undetectable, even if you think you are. You ARE pretty much invisible at a decent range, but things WILL see through it if you have to pass by them in really tight spaces. (I could be wrong tho).  
The easy way to check, is to turn on SS and Stealth, and run up to a Rikti Drone.  Chances are, the drone (and everything else in its combat group), is going to turn on you and open fire (you learn this the hard way when you decide to go running around the Abandoned Sewer and have to run through nasty rikti packs)


Up to level 24, I have stood right next to purple-con bosses, autofollowing them at 0 range while picking out inspirations and toggles.  Bad guys run into me during the course of their pathing, and actually have to alter their course around me or completely turn around.  They never attack.  

I suppose its easy enough for higher-level mobs to have stealth detection ability that would knock me down to something they could respond to.  I have yet to see it.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Mesozoic
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Reply #24 on: November 01, 2004, 08:36:21 AM

Quote from: Fargull
Well..

Did the Frostfire mission last night...


Been there.  Lots of fun.  I enjoyed the ice half-pipe formed by two opposing stairways coated with ice.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Glazius
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Reply #25 on: November 01, 2004, 10:15:15 AM

Quote from: Mesozoic
Quote from: Fargull
Well..

Did the Frostfire mission last night...


Been there.  Lots of fun.  I enjoyed the ice half-pipe formed by two opposing stairways coated with ice.

One of the goodies coming out in December (possibly available at a slight fee to existing subscribers, they haven't hammered it out yet) is going to be a prestige sprint power called "Powerslide", which I'm guessing is going to be all grind animation, all the time.

Couple that with super speed and/or super jump and you have City of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.

--GF

Going from place to place should not be this much fun.
Delf
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Reply #26 on: November 01, 2004, 10:12:55 PM

Quote from: Mesozoic

Up to level 24, I have stood right next to purple-con bosses, autofollowing them at 0 range while picking out inspirations and toggles.  Bad guys run into me during the course of their pathing, and actually have to alter their course around me or completely turn around.  They never attack.  


If I'm following this properly, SurfD was talking about using Stealth, but you seem to be describing Invisibility. I've been using both for a while, got them at the earliest possbile levels. When I use Stealth, I get noticed when I'm closer than maybe 25 feet, depending on how it's enhanced. With Invis I can stand right on their heads and not get noticed.

OK, not entirely true -- I accidentally took the ferry out to the level 50 island from Talos and got nailed by things that saw me while I was invisible, and quite some distance (50+ yards!) away. Of course I was in the high teens at the time and they were level 50.
jpark
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Reply #27 on: November 01, 2004, 10:16:34 PM

One of the benefits not mentioned about stealth:

Single target pulls.

To the extent anyone uses it in CoH.  My scrapper has engaged and killed single targets in stealth without alerting nearby, in line of sight guards.  I tested this because after I killed the guy - I remained where I was - and dropped stealth - instant aggro.

The same can apply for ranged attacks.

I can't always predict how to do this - trick - and of course in the combat pace of CoH - one does not do single target pulls too often.  BUt if you do - stealth helps.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Delf
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Reply #28 on: November 01, 2004, 10:41:54 PM

Quote from: jpark

One of the benefits not mentioned about stealth:

Single target pulls.


Absolutely. I'd pretty much forgotten about that, since I'm stealthed all the time while hunting. But as a scrapper who solos literally all the time (I've TF'ed with Bat Country three or four times, but that's it) it's a very useful aspect of the skill set.

I Invis to travel or rest, stealth the rest of the time. I don't move really really fast like everybody else out there (am I the only one left without super speed?) but I can run straight lines without avoiding anything, which helps. It's nice to be able to pop Invis anywhere and be able to answer the phone, take a break, heal up when Rest hasn't recycled yet, etc.
tar
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Reply #29 on: November 02, 2004, 02:34:49 AM

Quote from: Delf


If I'm following this properly, SurfD was talking about using Stealth, but you seem to be describing Invisibility. I've been using both for a while, got them at the earliest possbile levels. When I use Stealth, I get noticed when I'm closer than maybe 25 feet, depending on how it's enhanced. With Invis I can stand right on their heads and not get noticed.


Stealth and Superspeed both have roughly the same effect on visibility, but when you stack them they are pretty much the same as invisibility.

To make up some numbers for an example:

Normal aggro range : 50yds
Sniper/drone aggro range : 150yds

Stealth : -25yds
Superspeed : -25yds
Invis : -50yds
Mesozoic
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Reply #30 on: November 02, 2004, 05:29:30 AM

Quote from: Delf
If I'm following this properly, SurfD was talking about using Stealth, but you seem to be describing Invisibility.


What Tar said.  I'm not talking about Stealth or Invisibility, I'm talking about stacking the stealth components of Stealth and Superspeed at the same time.  It has the exact same effect as Invis, except that

(1) you are hideously fast, instead of slowed.
(2) you can attack
(3) you get a defense bonus
(4) it always works (I hear some bosses can see through Invis)

It makes Invisiblity look stupid.  I can spend two powers  - stealth (or grant invisibility) and invisibility - to move slowly, be almost invisible, and not attack.  Or I can spend three (Stealth, Hasten, Superspeed) and get all the abilities listed above PLUS Hasten.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
blindy
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Reply #31 on: November 02, 2004, 07:11:29 AM

Quote from: Mesozoic

(4) it always works (I hear some bosses can see through Invis)


Snipers see through stealth + superspeed.  I started encountering them when I hit brickstown and founders (and very occassionally in missions, starting at 30).  I'm not sure if they see through invis, as I've never had a character with it, and only rarely get buffed with it in groups.  Snipers have never really been a problem for me though, they'll get one shot on me before I'm out of range, and that isn't enough to kill my characters.
jpark
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Reply #32 on: November 02, 2004, 07:34:12 AM

Quote from: Mesozoic
Quote from: Delf
If I'm following this properly, SurfD was talking about using Stealth, but you seem to be describing Invisibility.


What Tar said.  I'm not talking about Stealth or Invisibility, I'm talking about stacking the stealth components of Stealth and Superspeed at the same time.  It has the exact same effect as Invis, except that

(1) you are hideously fast, instead of slowed.
(2) you can attack
(3) you get a defense bonus
(4) it always works (I hear some bosses can see through Invis)

It makes Invisiblity look stupid.  I can spend two powers  - stealth (or grant invisibility) and invisibility - to move slowly, be almost invisible, and not attack.  Or I can spend three (Stealth, Hasten, Superspeed) and get all the abilities listed above PLUS Hasten.


Dumb question - does SS still confer its benefit against detection if you are standing still?

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
jpark
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Reply #33 on: November 02, 2004, 07:35:52 AM

Quote from: blindy
Quote from: Mesozoic

(4) it always works (I hear some bosses can see through Invis)


Snipers see through stealth + superspeed.  I started encountering them when I hit brickstown and founders (and very occassionally in missions, starting at 30).  I'm not sure if they see through invis, as I've never had a character with it, and only rarely get buffed with it in groups.  Snipers have never really been a problem for me though, they'll get one shot on me before I'm out of range, and that isn't enough to kill my characters.


Bosses cannot see through invis (none that I have encountered).  But some other stuff can - namely - the drones from the 5th column.  Snipers in Founders Falls see through stealth - not sure about invis though.  To deal with this whole issue I fly with Phase Shift on.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Mesozoic
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Reply #34 on: November 02, 2004, 07:39:12 AM

Quote
Dumb question - does SS still confer its benefit against detection if you are standing still?


Yes.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
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