WotLK spoilerfication

[Lakov_Sanite]

There's a comedian that does sets in the World's End Tavern as well.

And he's fucking TERRIBLE.*

My 10 year old tells funnier jokes. No, really.


*That the Horde gets a kickass metal band and the alliance gets a comedian that tells jokes even washed-out Bob Zany wouldn't use just illustrates the Horde Bias of the game devs!

he was wonderfully bad i thought, it made me laugh....







also horde rules!

[K9]

I have to agree with Lantyssa, the over-use of pop culture references in WoW is terrible. When you find another it's just tiresome now.

[Azazel]

Have you seen The Tauren Cheiftains? I speak of course, of the 5-man horde heavy-metal band, that sometimes play during the Darkmoon Faire and can now be found in BRD on a nightly basis. (or summonable, with the Brewfest Remote.)

No, I haven't, but it illustrates my point perfectly: Kind of cool and neat occasional occurance to being heavily over-used and ever-present.

Well, not really. You have to be inside the tavern in BRD at 8pm server time to see them play if you don't have the remote which summons them (and if you're level 52ish and doing BRD, you won't have the remote). I didn't even know that they play in the World's End tavern in Shattrath until this thread, so it's hardly in your face. Until the Brewfest annual event which featured them in BRD (not everywhere) I had only seen them once before, at a Darkmoon Faire.

[Fabricated]

I finally got to run Azjol'Nerub and it has to be the shortest instance they've ever put in the game. Ever.

I walk in blind with 4 random people from my beta guild of 1000+ people and it's over in 20 minutes with no wipes or deaths.

[Paelos]

I finally got to run Azjol'Nerub and it has to be the shortest instance they've ever put in the game. Ever.

I walk in blind with 4 random people from my beta guild of 1000+ people and it's over in 20 minutes with no wipes or deaths.

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

[Koyasha]

Eh, saying that none should be more than short isn't good.  Some people like the longer runs.  I'd like an ample variety - plenty of the short ones for people that don't want to spend a lot of time on them, and some longer ones like Blackrock Depths or some of the other old world -long- instances.  Though if the long ones were set up to be doable in small chunks as well as a single runthrough that'd be ideal.

[K9]

The only long instance I ever enjoyed was Strat, but that could well be because Srat is one of the best instances for its level.

[Dren]

I finally got to run Azjol'Nerub and it has to be the shortest instance they've ever put in the game. Ever.

I walk in blind with 4 random people from my beta guild of 1000+ people and it's over in 20 minutes with no wipes or deaths.

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

Seconded.

[Paelos]

Some people like the longer runs. 

Those people are wrong, broken, and have too much free time.

Have one big instance with 5 "wings" if that's what you like, but one long-ass linear place that takes over 2 hours isn't cool. That applies to the large raids too. Black Temple was especially stupid in this regard. Nine bosses? Really? Most of them had shitty loot nobody gave a damn about, save 1-2 items that of course never drop, and the real kick in the teeth was that you couldn't skip them. There's a big ass closed door in the way that wouldn't open until they were all dead. Hey! That's a cool idea, let's force people to grind out every goddamn boss in the place, over and over, even if they are DEing items off the first 5 for the last 3 months.

Long instaces force you to play "beat the clock" so you're not wasting time on stuff you've done before and have enough time to learn the fights you want. They also waste monumental amounts of time because nobody gives a shit about the stuff that drops off the first few bosses. It's always the last guy that has the goods. T5 raids were actually ok in this regard once they finally opened the doors to Kael and Vashj. There should never be gates on final bosses. You should be able to get to them and win if you can.

[Fabricated]

I finally got to run Azjol'Nerub and it has to be the shortest instance they've ever put in the game. Ever.

I walk in blind with 4 random people from my beta guild of 1000+ people and it's over in 20 minutes with no wipes or deaths.

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

It's incredibly short.

1. Walk in the door, 2 pulls of 3 mobs.
2. There's the boss! He has 3 groups fanned out in front of him, pull any of the groups. When the last mob of each group is dead, another group comes, then the boss comes after they're all gone.
3. Walk down a ramp around a corner, 3 pulls you need to do quickly because the boss is rampaging up the tunnel towards you the instant you get on the ramp. The boss comes to you.
4. Drop down a very deep hole, walk down a ramp, one pull, then the last boss.
5. Done!

[Paelos]

I would think on regular that might be a good place to farm for gear, which is nice. On heroic, I imagine it would be a little more difficult, but still a good place to get marks in a daily scenario.

Overall, I think that sounds about right for a five man instance. It's a little short, but not far from what I would consider the ideal balance. In my world, it would be 10-15 trash mobs between each boss, set in groups no bigger than 4. I would also prefer harder trash mobs with higher health and more abilities than large amounts of standard trash done over and over in a room (aka the horrible repetition in MrT caster groups).

[K9]

Short = Win for heroics. The absolute best badge farming instance is heroic BM, the only thing that puts people off is it's slightly higher difficulty level relative to Slave Pens (actually a crap badge farm imho), Underbog (2nd best badge farm) or Mech (*yawn*). I've done heroic BM in 22 mins with my priest, a prot warr and three enhancement shamen. Was a very fun run.

[AngryGumball]

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

Disagree

[Fabricated]

If you don't dick around a lot UK and the Nexus are roughly 50ish minutes long give or take despite having way more trash compared to Azjol'Nreub. I'd say there's 8-10ish pulls between every boss in UK, about that much between all but the last boss of the Nexus (which is in the center of the zone and can be instantly accessed and started after you kill the first 3 bosses). The trash dies a lot faster than the shit in say MgT however even for non-epic'd groups so the number of pulls may not be accurate to describe the speed. 3-4 elite mobs per pull, tops.

[Paelos]

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

Disagree

Seek help.

[apocrypha]

20-30 minute instances would be awesome for me at the moment. Still can't play for more than about 40-60 minutes twice a day (gamers/photographers curse - bad back) and all I'm doing now is a quest or two on my RAF duo.

I need to get into a guild or summat, the 20-30 mins of putting a PUG together kinda rules me out of any group content :/

[AngryGumball]

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

Disagree

Seek help.

sure console kiddie.

[Rasix]

I think you misfired there.

[Fordel]

His argument certainly swayed my position. 


Sorta, but not really related beta thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10873899411&sid=2003

That must suck. So damn much. So very very much! 

[Merusk]

I think you misfired there.

Nah, clearly those who don't want to spend 3-4 hours in a blue-item instance are all kids who should be on ADD medication and not adults with other shit to do besides spend an entire evening glued to the computer.

[DraconianOne]

adults with other shit to do besides spend an entire evening glued to the computer.

You mean there's other shit I could be doing? This sounds like an interesting and unique concept. Please elaborate.

[Dren]

adults with other shit to do besides spend an entire evening glued to the computer.

You mean there's other shit I could be doing? This sounds like an interesting and unique concept. Please elaborate.

Apparently, playing a console.

[Merusk]

adults with other shit to do besides spend an entire evening glued to the computer.

You mean there's other shit I could be doing? This sounds like an interesting and unique concept. Please elaborate.

Sure, here's things my evenings are usually occupied with:

Making dinner
Help the Daughter with her homework (in a year it will be both kids)
Talk to the wife when she calls on her meal break.
Spend some time playing with the kids.  On console, with toys, whatever.
Read the boards & news for a bit.
Clean-up & dishes after dinner.
Day to day household maintenance.  Things like Laundry, vacuuming, sorting/ shredding mail, pet care and tidying up the house.
Overseeing the kids getting ready for bed

After that I get to play my MMOs or other games.  If I'm speedy that evening I'll be done by 8pm.  It's only that early because I work 15 mins from my house and get off at 4:30.  A 2-3 hour instance, IF I get started right at 8pm takes me right up to bedtime.  Yeah, stellar.  I can see where other adults are more frustrated that shit takes forever to do. Particularly if you're responsible and go to bed before midnight since you're up at 5 or 6am the next day. 

[Dren]

...da truthz...

Yep, all that except 4 kids with sports and cub scouts thrown in.  A few nights I get to log in at 8:30 p.m. and stay on until 10:30 p.m.  If I feel like dragging ass the next day at work, I'll go later.  I normally don't want to feel like that.

So, 2 hour window for EVERYTHING and then I'm off.  2 hour instances or more do not fit into that equation.

[murdoc]

adults with other shit to do besides spend an entire evening glued to the computer.

You mean there's other shit I could be doing? This sounds like an interesting and unique concept. Please elaborate.

Apparently, playing a console.

 

[Paelos]

Good, no instance should take more than 45 minutes in my book.

Disagree

Seek help.

sure console kiddie.

No problem, catass.

[Merusk]

Anywhoooo, drama whores..

New tracking stat: "Deaths by Hogger."

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?tab=2&page=777   

[DraconianOne]

Responsible stuff that needs to be done

No, no, no - you're doing it all wrong. What you want to do is what I've done: find a job that's a long way from home and leave all the responsible parent and household stuff for the wife to do while you go to work then come back to a nice empty apartment and play MMOs all night. I mean, yeah, sure - occassionally you've got to eat and go to the boys room and stuff but that's what take-outs and buckets are for.  Who cares if you don't get to see your baby daughter grow up and start crawling and stuff as long as you get to go raiding every night.

[Fordel]

Personal gripe: Where the fuck is my 11 point Protection (Paladin) talent?

I can't remember a talent tree ever NOT having a single 11 point talent. Many trees have absolutely shitty 11 point talents, but they EXIST!


Tick Tock etc 

[Paelos]

Personal gripe: Where the fuck is my 11 point Protection (Paladin) talent?

I can't remember a talent tree ever NOT having a single 11 point talent. Many trees have absolutely shitty 11 point talents, but they EXIST!


Tick Tock etc 

Can I just say fuck pallies? Heal or GTFO.

This is nothing against you personally, but I've heard nothing but bitching from them in my alliance. Frankly, I'm wondering if they are the ONLY unsatisfied group in the totality of the new changes. If that's the case, I hope they all quit, on both sides. I hate them all in PvP anyway. We don't need more tanks. We have lots. Let it go.

This from your friendly neighborhood warrior who's glad they can finally AE things instead of hearing about how pallies do it. We need healers now.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, everyone will get Kings now in the new patch. Check and mate.

[Fordel]

Holy is still complete shit, for the same reasons it was back at the original release. The only reason anyone plays that spec is either because it 'guarantees' a raid slot, or because they are sucking it up and playing the healbitch for their friends. Like, 5 people on the planet actually find Holy Paladins actually fun to play on the play style alone. It's also the "It doesn't matter if your other specs suck, stfu and heal!" spec, as illustrated 


Protection is leaps and bounds better then it was and should preform just fine in WoTLK. Most of Protections bitching is residual "Oh, so warriors really WERE the favored tank, and Prot Paladins WERE total shit, on purpose, for years, to ensure warriors were the only real tanks?  ". So a lot of tinfoil hats weren't so tinfoily after all.  So now *every* single possible inequality is now under the microscope, since Blizz declared this a four tank expansion. (The fact Prot Paladins could even reach uncrushability in TBC was a side effect of them handing out too much avoidance gear, it's also why they didn't actually make proper gear for paladin tanks till the end of the cycle, since they would be "too good"  ) The other, other source of bitching would be from most of the changes being "About fucking time" kind of changes, instead of 'oh this is new!' changes, but that is debatable either way.


I don't see Ret's complaining other then about the giant nerf they'll get before launch. There so damn silly in PvP currently everyone knows they are getting smacked by the bat real soon. The only other bitching I see is more residual 'our DPS was purposefully gimped because we were a utility spec?', similar in IDEA to how a Shadow Priests damage was capped, just minus the actual shadow priest utility. lolret etc. The spec is really fun to play right now, even putting the insane burst aside. If it remains competitive DPS wise, you'll have 1 ret paladin in every large raid, maybe two. It's just so getting a giant nerf, the dev's have said so a few times in recent posts, but no word on what specifically is going to be nerfed as of yet, so its like... PANIC 



I QQ about a 11 point talent specifically, because those are usually new abilities in of themselves. I'm being cheated out of a new toy dammit!

I also bitch about having two talented blessings in the same tree, both 'required' for tanking... it's really annoying. The tree itself is "Half-Done". You know how the Warrior Prot tree got all the fat cut out of it, then they added in some new toys like Warbringer and Imp Spell Reflect? The Paladin tree got it's fat taken out as well, but they never got around to adding in those new toys for us.

The other, other, OTHER bitch, would be a Prot Paladin currently buffs the other tanks as well has it buffs itself, so some folks have a fear of being used to buff the REAL tank then put on the bench etc.



Of course a lot of those things are really reserved for the top end folks, or for theorycraft. In the end, there are only so many tanks to go around for the other 95% of us playing, so it'll probably be moot. Doesn't stop the nerd rage though!




-edit- : Most Holy Paladins probably won't have Kings, unless they are the only paladin around for a guild. They'll end up like http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhVuGxRtZVf0x0h to get all the extra spell crit, to fuel their shitty, shitty play style.

You're 50/50 on Prot Paladins taking it, since Sanctuaries mana return is so vital for Prot.

Ret will probably have it 99% of the time, since PvE Ret is stupidly easy to spec for, plenty of spare points.

[Merusk]

I'm like >.< this close to ditching the pally and picking up a DK at launch.  They're so fucking fun to play, and yes, warriors are still better tanks than pallies in the endgame.  Add-in the multitude of tools that DKs get AND the damage they can dish out even as "Tank spec" (note; all trees can tank with a few talents switches) it's almost a no-brainer for who you'd want as an offtank.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, everyone will get Kings now in the new patch. Check and mate.

Really? Fucking hilarious and about time.  It was stupid to ever have it as a spec blessing after they wanted to make all trees viable.

Can I just say fuck pallies? Heal or GTFO.

Hope you plan on saying that to priests and druids, too.  Healing is still the same boring 'watch the bars' game it was 4 years ago, with the added stress in current encounters of having to know when to move and where to go.  DPsing is much easier and less stress overall.. AND gets more accolades, nifty abilities and toys.  Yeah, expect a BIG shortage of healers in WOTLK. It's a fucking thankless job and even the folks I know who have healed for the last 4 years are giving it up enmasse. 

[Fabricated]

You don't even really need to be specced for healing or tanking to heal or tank the leveling instances in WoTLK from what I've done so far in the beta. The difficulty level when you have a non-tank specced tank in a smattering of tank gear and a ret pally/feral druid/shadow priest healing in their Spell Power set is about right; DPS can't just do whatever the fuck they want without pulling aggro, and have to pay attention to boss gimmicks to avoid big spike damage since the non-specced healer doesn't have 20 ways to save their ass.

With a tank-spec and a healer-spec (or alternatively someone with a hybrid-spec and a great healing set) instances are a snooze fest.

I tanked an instance last night with a fury warrior, arms warrior, and a hunter rocking -full- Sunwell gear and the Legendary Bow and I never lost aggro. Not once. And I'm in mostly WotLK blues right now.

[K9]

Hope you plan on saying that to priests and druids, too.  Healing is still the same boring 'watch the bars' game it was 4 years ago, with the added stress in current encounters of having to know when to move and where to go.  DPsing is much easier and less stress overall.. AND gets more accolades, nifty abilities and toys.  Yeah, expect a BIG shortage of healers in WOTLK. It's a fucking thankless job and even the folks I know who have healed for the last 4 years are giving it up enmasse. 

Healing is not all bad, although I finally got my shaman into the 60s and I'm having a blast pew-pewing as elemental.

[Paelos]

Hope you plan on saying that to priests and druids, too.  Healing is still the same boring 'watch the bars' game it was 4 years ago, with the added stress in current encounters of having to know when to move and where to go.  DPsing is much easier and less stress overall.. AND gets more accolades, nifty abilities and toys.  Yeah, expect a BIG shortage of healers in WOTLK. It's a fucking thankless job and even the folks I know who have healed for the last 4 years are giving it up enmasse. 

Most healers I've talked to say the "added stress of moving" was the only saving grace that kept the game from being completely boring. Without that, I'd agree that it's incredibly monotonous. Also, "Thankless jobs" are ALL the jobs in raiding, not just healing. Nobody pats you on the shoulder when you do well. They bitch when things get fucked up. Ooooooh, you're #1 DPS! It probably means you were pulling aggro off of me a ton. DPS is the same rolling your face across the keyboard scenario that it was 4 years ago. Tanking is the same 4 key job it was 4 years ago. If people are lauding DPS, I'm not seeing it, except amongst themselves. I'm also not seeing a lack of awesome healing items, while the DPS have to scratch each other's eyes out to get anything.

Frankly I love the healers. I try my best to make sure as a raid leader that they are getting the support they need, and that they never get shat on by the DPS. What I don't like is 5 feral druids and 3 prot pallies signing up for runs when I'm short one healer. I blame Blizzard for making it boring, but I also blame people for signing up for things thinking they can just spec however they want and are entitled to a raid slot. The encounters don't work that way because Blizzard's a bunch of raid composition dicks.