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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: EQ2 NDA Lifted 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: EQ2 NDA Lifted  (Read 8016 times)
Soukyan
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Reply #35 on: October 19, 2004, 08:00:13 AM

Quote from: Kageru
I have never played DaoC, but I read that the 40-50 curve in that game was rather brutal. As far as I know there is no equivalent ramp up in the WoW XP curve. That said I should have restricted myself to a WoW / EQ2 comparison.


Yes, 40 to 50 was brutal. So was 1-40. Heh. It's quite alright to draw comparisons and even if you had restricted, I would have pointed out that the WoW curve is not all that fast. The EQ2 curve even less so. When you say "as far as you know", have you actually leveled to the top level in WoW or are you just going off third party info? I'm interested to know because while I was able to obtain level 14 with one character in a week of stress testing, it started to be a noticable slowdown in leveling. Granted, I tested 4 other race/class combos to anywhere from level 3-5 each so that took up some of that week's playtime from me. I'm not knocking WoW because I was pleased that I always had quests I could do and my quest log never ran dry. That made it fun to play. The problem occurs when the experience grind starts to show through. Just as in leaving fine silver exposed, the tarnish starts to show up.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Kageru
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Reply #36 on: October 19, 2004, 08:42:28 AM

Being Australian I was not eligible for WoW beta. But then I enjoy trying to divine game mechanics from discussions, which means that much of my data is not direct... would that I had the time to play all MMORG's in depth. However given people hitting high 30's in the stress test, and the highest reported character in the EQ2 beta being L43, I think there's a pretty substantial difference there.

Incidentally I've also heard that EQ2 questing starts to offer reduced return at L15+ while soloing becomes punitive at L20+ so i'll be interested in if you find this to be the case.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Soukyan
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Reply #37 on: October 19, 2004, 08:49:18 AM

Quote from: Kageru
Incidentally I've also heard that EQ2 questing starts to offer reduced return at L15+ while soloing becomes punitive at L20+ so i'll be interested in if you find this to be the case.


I'm interested to find that out as well. Perhaps someone who has already been testing can speak better to that, but I should be starting to test within the next week so if someone else can't answer it, I'll find out for you and let you know.

And I agree with you on the wish to be able to play a lot of MMOGs in-depth. If I can just hit on the PowerBall jackpot soon, I can retire early and lead a life of blissful decadence... and ignorance... and aw, who am I kidding, the taxes would wipe out my fortune before I even had the chance to pile all those greenbacks in the living room and roll around in them like Scrooge McDuck.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
El Gallo
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Reply #38 on: October 19, 2004, 09:11:14 AM

While it isn't a popular opinion here, I think having certain EQ uberguilders helping on your endgame PvE content is a good move.  I've seen the feedback (past the flames) Furor has given to SoE over the years, and I have almost always agreed with him on raid design issues.  He always bitched about identical design, massive raid size, ch chains etc.

One thing about the Blizzard team that worries me a bit is their pig-headedness.  There are some ideas in WoW that are just so laughably awful that I really can't imagine anyone who hadn't been stricken with a very severe case of fetal alcohol syndrome coming up with.  And they dig their heels in the sand and steadfastly refuse to even consider changing these obviously moronic decisions.  The best example of this is the 24 hour clock, which literally nobody thinks is a good idea.  Even the most diehard fanbois can only come up with "well, it's not that bad."  Granted, that's a pretty minor issue, but its the mindset that's worrisome.  The forced server localization is similar, and much more serious.  Though there are at least a couple xenophobes that agree with that one.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Kageru
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Reply #39 on: October 19, 2004, 09:32:56 AM

It's the disadvantage of the "vision". You get a strong personality to the game but have to cope with some idiosyncrasies along the way. The 24 hour clock is an extremely odd one though, because no one can actually identify why it is considered an advantage. Then again I admired the rest system and they surrendered on that.

Incidentally I think it's almost certain the server localization is VU protecting the EU delayed release. I expect Blizzard is every bit as appalled, but thoroughly gagged.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
kaid
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Reply #40 on: October 19, 2004, 09:39:13 AM

The 24 hour clock is odd but frankly when I played in stress test I would play late into the night and never really notice it turning very dark.  In alot of zones the only way I really noticed it was night time was by looking at the game clock.


kaid
HaemishM
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Reply #41 on: October 19, 2004, 09:46:44 AM

Short answer from me:

EQ2 = EQ1 + LOTS OF SHINEY + shitty performance on all but the greatest hardware + lots of quests

I'll save the longer comments for the write up on the front page I intend to do, but suffice it to say I never felt like I was playing anything other than Everquest.

Sky
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Reply #42 on: October 19, 2004, 10:59:26 AM

Quote from: kaid
The 24 hour clock is odd but frankly when I played in stress test I would play late into the night and never really notice it turning very dark.  In alot of zones the only way I really noticed it was night time was by looking at the game clock.

So why even bother with it? If it makes no difference, why not let some players see the light of day, even if they are, you know, working and whatnot during the day. Even if it's just a matter of different tinting, why lock swatchs of the playerbase into the same tinting?

As Kageru said, I have yet to see a good reason for it being in. Just seems silly.

Trippy
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Reply #43 on: October 19, 2004, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: El Gallo
One thing about the Blizzard team that worries me a bit is their pig-headedness.  There are some ideas in WoW that are just so laughably awful that I really can't imagine anyone who hadn't been stricken with a very severe case of fetal alcohol syndrome coming up with.  And they dig their heels in the sand and steadfastly refuse to even consider changing these obviously moronic decisions.

This "we know best" mentality is a common afflicition among game develoeprs. The one that drove me bonkers was the Recall Friend Teleportation Power Pool power in CoH. Despite endless pleadings on the beta boards to at least allow people to add a confirmation box in the UI to curtail all the griefing that was going on with that power (and would only increase once the game was released) the devs refused to do anything about it, saying it was "working as intended". Their rationale was they didn't want to have people waste the second or so it would take to click on a confirm box and possibly die as a result so they steadfastly refused to allow players the choice to add a confirmation box. I believe they finally capitulated and added the UI option in the lastest mega-patch implicitly admitting they were wrong the entire time.
kaid
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Reply #44 on: October 20, 2004, 09:49:58 AM

Well you may argue why bother keeping it if it makes no differance I say why bother changing as it makes no differance. They just made a choice to make night and day very similar in ambient lighting so frankly 2 hour 6 hour or 24 hour unless you are really paying attention it would have no impact on your gaming. It simply is not worth any brain sweat worry about.

I originally was very against the 24 hour clock but seeing it in play and even deep into night time having to look at the game clock to tell its night made me realize that it just didn't matter. Hell for all I care now they could just make it noon all the time the impact on game play would be about the same as things currently are.


kaid
Nebu
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Reply #45 on: October 20, 2004, 11:06:48 AM

The only problem I could envision with the 24hr game clock would be one connected to a lovely EQ feature: Camping.

If they implement quests that have a mob that a) spawns only at night and b) only has a chance to spawn once per day, then this could get to be even more of a nightmare than it was in EQ1.  

Now I'd like to think that they know better than to do this... but that may be a tad too optimistic.  We all know how fanbois clammor to Evercamp for their sword_of_eternal_l33tness.

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Sky
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Reply #46 on: October 20, 2004, 11:07:18 AM

Because sometimes I want the world to be purple, but sometimes I want it to be golden. If there's no impact beyond that, why force me to have only a purple world, since I can only play at night?

Murgos
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Reply #47 on: October 20, 2004, 11:19:06 AM

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing an 18hr 30min clock (or some similar unit which would give various dtd day night sequences that were not 'static').

Maybe for a week or two you log in and it's night time.  The next few weeks when you come on it would be at or near dawn (game time) etc...  The you could start making time of day encounters thant mean something.

For example:  Say you know that your coming up on an 'night cycle' during your regular play period and that in this particular game spawns near midngiht are 15% more difficult than spawns at dusk/dawn and 20 more difficult than during the day.  So you have to prepare accordingly, either kit yourself out with weapons to neutralize that advantage (but say would be mob specific) or move to a different hunting ground temporarily or start grouping more.

Regardless, the point would be that the game would be that much more dynamic and interesting.

I agree though that if the only difference in day/night is that for a few minutes everything has a purple tint than whats the point?

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Venkman
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Reply #48 on: October 20, 2004, 01:22:47 PM

I'm sorry but, "it's not that bad" in no way equals "it's a good thing for reasons X and Y"

I want to know X and Y. I want to know why they chose a 24 hour clock. I don't want to hear bullshit about it not being bad because that doesn't say anything useful. I want to know why they chose it, how it affects the game, and why it's a good thing it does so.

The fact that at this late date Blizzard has not adequately explained this to even their more rabid fanbase is, quite honestly, freakin' wierd. At some point in the past months or years, the designers sat around a table and debated the use of a 24hr clock versus what every other MMORPG does. Somehow they convinced themselves the clock was a good thing. They've lightened the nighttime world to the point where the clock is irrelevant, but that does nothing more than give the fanboi their easy out in debates.

As to the localization, I can't really blame the devs for that. Rather, it was a business decision the devs were probably informed of after the fact.

I would love to hear what other pig-headedness they've exhibited though, and particularly what those "awful" game design decisions are. Curiosity and what-not.
Alkiera
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Reply #49 on: October 20, 2004, 04:48:16 PM

Quote from: Darniaq
At some point in the past months or years, the designers sat around a table and debated the use of a 24hr clock versus what every other MMORPG does. Somehow they convinced themselves the clock was a good thing.


"Make the day/night cycle 24 hours or you're fired" can be a very convincing, if not really rational or explanatory, argument.  I'm a firm believer in the ability of managers to force their underlings to do stupid stuff.  I don't agree with it, but I know it happens.

The fact that they haven't come up with a good explanation is a hint that lends this argument weight...  They probably can't say "Yah, it's stupid, but our manager/lead designer/etc thought it was cool, and refused to listen to reason" in any public forum.

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Alkiera

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Kageru
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Reply #50 on: October 20, 2004, 07:51:31 PM

The best theory I've seen is that they plan to have festivals in game that match the real world equivalents. Which seems a pretty poor reason for having a 1:1 game/real time match. There is some immersian advantage to having a match, but it's equally feeble. But it seems unlikely management would intervene in a detail this trivial, so it remains a mystery as to what the story is.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Alkiera
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The best part of SWG was the easy account cancellation process.


Reply #51 on: October 21, 2004, 12:42:10 AM

Quote from: Kageru
The best theory I've seen is that they plan to have festivals in game that match the real world equivalents. Which seems a pretty poor reason for having a 1:1 game/real time match. There is some immersian advantage to having a match, but it's equally feeble. But it seems unlikely management would intervene in a detail this trivial, so it remains a mystery as to what the story is.


Yeah, and the fact that my common mmog-playing time is 11pm-2am makes the system really bite for me....  Maybe if there was a Vampire race who took damage from being out in daylight, or something, it'd be nice...  but for most, I don't see it being useful.  I've heard the dark isn't as bad as other games, but I'd still like to see the cycle, not forever night.  Heck, I moved north to see 4 seasons, over my former residence's two... the cool season, and the other 8 months of the year, which were hot.

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Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
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