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Author Topic: I just finished this.  (Read 9310 times)
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3816


on: December 26, 2007, 08:39:09 PM

Takin' my time. Playing here and there, just finished on normal difficulty.

So here are my thoughts.
This was all solo play. Internet play was pretty retarted when I tried it.

Fun game. I got about 3 or 4 side quests that were not completeable due to bugs. (Game not recording kills, monsters not spawning *I looked and looked and looked*) but since they were side quests, the did not stop my progress in the game badly.

About halfway through the game, mastery set in. I had seen all the game had to offer in gameplay, and it was all kill tasks and gather tasks and grinding missions.

Towards the end, I did get the gun that shoots buzzsaws, so that was pretty wiked kewlio.

And also towards the end challenge was definitley replaced with frustration. Monsters would one-two or three hit me, with stuns and waves of shitheads. So there was no way to "play better" just suck up the deaths and soldier on.

Great start, mediocre middle, flat ending. I still consider it money well spent, as I like shooting buzzsaws at demons and lighting zombies on fire while gathering lewt and xps.




 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Lt.Dan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 758


Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 11:24:05 PM

I'm still playing :P but I agree with your comments on difficulty.  It's either a total cake-walk or a 20 death war of attrition.  Bad randoms can also stuff you up - last night I got an epic and his two rare buddies with the damaging auras...in combination was taking about 300 damage per tick :P
Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4856

Noob Sauce


Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 05:28:34 PM

I am still playing, elite nightmare as a blade master.  About halfway through again.

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 26426

Badge Whore


Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 07:37:51 AM

BLarg.. I'm just past Waterloo and beginning to encounter lots of bugs.   The whole "don't portal because the entire place will respawn and kill you when you get back" thing was annoying enough.  However, now I'm running into shit where I'd get "stuck" apparently, and it throws me back to the start of the area... along with a complete respawn.   Fuck.

Then there's the legendary/ epic mobs that spawn and won't die.  THey run away as soon as they take damage so you have to chase them... into other  mobs.  So you clear the whole area, go back for them and when you get them to about 1/7th  of the bar left.. it refills! awesome, for real

Not to mention the weapons I loot that don't even work.  "Ooooh rotary knives on a gun!  WTF it's doing 0 damage."  Or that when I REMOVE  some of my +luck gear, I get more rares/portals/elite mobs than when I had it on.  swamp poop

Good lord I can't imagine anyone actually subscribing to this.  It's fun enough, but it's getting annoying to the point I don't even want to continue to the end.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
rattran
Moderator
Posts: 3685

Unreasonable


Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 08:55:40 AM

The 'rotary knives' gun works fine for me, it's the field guns that don't seem to work reliably. Mostly the grizzly physical one, which seems to not work at all.

And loot is starting to piss me off, it seems impossible to get a decent combo of stats on an item. I'm still using stuff from 15 levels ago in some cases.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 09:40:16 AM

I'm still playing on elite with a couple of real life friend that never got hooked to a mmorpg.  The last time we played together was starcraft...
I'm having a great time, I have 3 elite character so I can group with every friend depending of their level.  All my character play differently. The bugs are really manageable, you can always complete bugged quest online because maps can be reseted.

The 3 worst parts for me are :
- The story is awful
- There is too much loot - I have to clear my inventory every 8-12 mobs I kill
- Still waiting on a shared stash for all your characters
geldonyetich2
Terracotta Army
Posts: 811


Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 02:02:56 PM

The 3 worst parts for me are :
- The story is awful
- There is too much loot - I have to clear my inventory every 8-12 mobs I kill
- Still waiting on a shared stash for all your characters
Agreed. 

The Story might be better if they had presented it better.  The idea of the demons as being forces of anti-creation is a really nice start.

I can think of a really good fix for the loot issue: cut down on the amount of loot dropped dramatically, but improve the quality of the loot by an equal amount.  Much less crap and much more hard decisions on what to scrap versus what to keep.

The shared stash, last I heard, was a planned feature for subscribers that didn't quite make the cut.

6 more months in the post-release oven and Hellgate: London might be awesome.  Currently, it's just barely rising above the decent game bar.
spiralyguy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 36


Reply #7 on: January 10, 2008, 04:34:57 PM

I played HG:L through normal as a Marksman.  Totally gimped my char (grenades and precision strikes SUCK) in hindsight and there's no respeccing so yea... pretty frustrating there.  Tried to get a guardian through normal.... also gimped skills.  Got very boring, normal mode doesn't offer much challenge.

Played elite mode for a while... stuff hits harder and has alot of HP.  So... you pretty much do exactly what you were doing on normal, except it takes longer, and you're more seriously punished when you get hit.  I guess that's.... fun?

Anyway this game was fun as a one time through game.  However, as someone who subscribed for a month (hola mistake) I'm a pretty bitter soul.  Online play was unplayable due to invisible party member bug for the first month.  They've patched and fixed some minor bugs, but there's still that memory leak.  Still no new content.  No end game play.  No reason to group and develop social bonds.  There's basically NOTHING worth subscribing for.

While the initial game play was fun, in the end.... the tile sets are repetative, the monsters are repetative, the skills are boring, the loot is boring, the story is bad, there's too much crap loot, not enough strategy.  The only thing that really seemed to change about my char was my weapon.  Just like an FPS....

IMO, buy it from the discount bin next year, play through once, uninstall.  I'd rate this game on par with Hexen 2.  A few neat gimmicks, absolutely no lasting gameplay.  6.5/10  FPS/RPG-lite.

Subsciption value I rate 1/10 cause I've never seen worse, ever.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 04:40:39 PM by spiralyguy »
Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7165


WWW
Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008, 07:25:12 PM

Subsciption value I rate 1/10 cause I've never seen worse, ever.

I'd give it a -10 subscription value. They have actively punished their subscribers from day one.

Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 11:00:31 AM

I'm really frustrated with the number of missed potential in this genre.  The solutions were right there in their grasp.  They just about had it right on so many things, but missed it.  And even when they understood they missed it, they didn't do anything about it.

They've missed their opportunity.  They'd have to be giving away solid gold ponies at this point to get me to come back and subscribe.  Why even bother now?
Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7165


WWW
Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 11:12:16 AM

Maybe they were going for "Springtime for Hitler" all along.

Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3816


Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 12:44:27 PM

Making games is hard?



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #12 on: January 11, 2008, 07:22:08 PM

While the initial game play was fun, in the end.... the tile sets are repetative, the monsters are repetative, the skills are boring, the loot is boring, the story is bad, there's too much crap loot, not enough strategy.  The only thing that really seemed to change about my char was my weapon.  Just like an FPS....

Subsciption value I rate 1/10 cause I've never seen worse, ever.

Not sure if anyone care but I fixed that for you.
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #13 on: January 14, 2008, 08:52:07 AM

Making games is hard?

I really don't think so.  Designers can do it.  Coders can do it.

It is the investors/distributors that cannot stomach the real up front cost that is required to make a good game.  They even know what it takes by looking at past successes.  They must be looking for those rare "Blair Witch Project" type successes without much investment.  They just haven't figured out that games and films are really not the same.
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3816


Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008, 09:25:00 AM

So I've totally lost interest in the harder difficulties. It just sucks to be plopped down in a map and die instantly after loading, and then having to restart grind for every single kill.

This isn't more difficult, it's plain frustrating.

I'll probably tinker with the other classes on normal difficulty now. My first was a Marksman, and I just rolled up a Blademaster for a changeup.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
rattran
Moderator
Posts: 3685

Unreasonable


Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 09:50:09 AM

Blademaster is kinda hosed in elite, too many 1-shot mobs.

Balance in general is still fucked, still no xmas stuff, 1.0 (stonehenge, the December patch) is buggy on the TC, and everyone I was playing with has wandered off/back to WoW/is now a Pirate.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3295


Reply #16 on: January 14, 2008, 05:09:39 PM

Now that all is said and done for me, I will make this observation:

I have never had my interest in an online game vanish this quickly. Just poof gone in a day. Save for skill use, the game does not actually change at all. At level 50 you are still essentially fighting the same badguys in the same three grey map templates as you were at level 5. In fact it is indistinguishable to observers :)
lesion
Moderator
Posts: 754


Reply #17 on: January 14, 2008, 07:51:23 PM

While playing this game I went from feelings of elation to abject anger to a negative-true flux state. I'm playing solo Elite (online, because I have a Vision) as a Marksman and I'm almost to Sydonai. Normal was blah to me and Hardcore Elite makes me hate videogames altogether. Vanilla Elite has morphed the game into a sadomasochistic survival horror game that sidesteps review standards. It's fun. Ish.

The game is technically beautiful, and everything is shiny--but they are sewers and poo-monsters. Hellgate: Planet Lush Oases would probably engulf everyone. Rich people would equalize third-world nations and furnish them with quad-cores and SLI. They would then promptly kill themselves during the first month of memory crashes. Global population and greenhouse emissions would stabilize. Robots would be invented to take care of non-Hellgate activities for the few lucky enough to be playing on Medium-High Texture Detail. A content patch would add some more subscriber features, like a special kazoo.

I can't even think properly when I look behind the curtain. Is this game good? Is it bad? Polka-dot banana hammock?

steam|a grue \[T]/
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3295


Reply #18 on: January 15, 2008, 02:45:01 AM

Oh, it's bad, make no mistake. It is a bad game.

But it is a bad game made by people who aped the Diablo format and proved conclusively that clickclickclicklootlootloot bypasses logical centers and stokes our lizard brain in a primal fashion, to the point where a game company could release a buggy shit game with three environments and the same enemies over and over from levels 1-50 as long as they did the diablo thing and it will addict people.
spiralyguy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 36


Reply #19 on: January 15, 2008, 10:26:11 AM

While the initial game play was fun, in the end.... the tile sets are repetative, the monsters are repetative, the skills are boring, the loot is boring, the story is bad, there's too much crap loot, not enough strategy.  The only thing that really seemed to change about my char was my weapon.  Just like an FPS....

Subsciption value I rate 1/10 cause I've never seen worse, ever.

Not sure if anyone care but I fixed that for you.

Skills:

Summoners spammed summons.  All game.  Stupid summons that would get 1 shot constantly.
Marksmen have no useful active skills except rapid fire.  Grenades and strikes are TERRIBLE.  Crouch and Sniper scope are considered "skills"  ROFL
Guardians just spam heal alot, sometimes anchor, sometimes shield turn, but mostly just left click and heal alot.
Engineers are like crappy marksmen with  a pet.  You just keep putting points into that pet for small incremental stat changes....  nothing actually changes as you level except the numbers.



Loot:

Endgame the only loot you wear is +all attributes because the stupid stat feed system forces you too.  Either that or you can keep wearing the same gear you had at lvl 20 despite being lvl 40.  I never found a single peice of gear that had a unique or interesting stat.

The guns are all pretty different.  But every game on the planet can come up with 10 unique guns.  Unreal Tournament has been doing it for years.  The guns don't really seem to progress either, you could use the same type of gun from lvl 1 to lvl 50.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3295


Reply #20 on: January 15, 2008, 05:01:56 PM

Addendum to skills being exciting:

at no point in the game was I using more than three skills regularly and vast portions of everyone's skill trees are pointless junk, with some people's skill trees being mostly useless junk.

When I hit level 30 the game became the constant and unyielding use of one skill (arc legion).

In addition as time went on I became acutely aware of the fact that gameplay was halfheartedly balanced around people having the 'correct' optimal build and this makes skill variety a joke.
Evildrider
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5521


Reply #21 on: January 15, 2008, 05:55:10 PM

After I finished the whole game.. I saw no point to replay it. 
I'm not a loot ho.. at least when its so horribly repetetive.

At least I didn't subscribe  awesome, for real
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #22 on: January 15, 2008, 07:58:59 PM

spiralyguy :

I see your point on loot, it's valid - I disagree. The stats requirement are too high and some attribute types are still bugged, like +% minion armor. I'm missing set items, hope they'll patch some soon. Some aspect are really nice tough.  The mod(socket) system is the best I ever saw, the augmentatrix random enhancement is a nice money sink, the nanoforge is a great way to keep the items you like for a few level (when it's not bugged). I vastly prefer this system over a WoW/EQ system where everyone is looking for the same Epic stuff.

Your take on skill looks uninformed.

- The summoner is about spamming summons and healing them.  Don't take fire elemental if you don't want to spam 100% of the time.  Each main summons has 2 active skills.  There's a life exchange mechanism and a drain corpse skill.  Some minor curses.  You can mix and match elemental and minion types to your liking (a few are gimped...) What are you expecting?
- The guardian does a huge deal more than healing. Not to mention the gun guardian build (actually viable) which is the equivalent of a viable archer berserker in Diablo 2.
- The marksman is more straightforward but aimed at the point and shoot crowd.  The guns are diverse enough.  The sniper build is not has fast as the classic build but is still a viable alternative playstyle.
- The engineer pet is one of the most elaborate pet I ever saw in a game, mmo or single player.  You can decide it's stats, his equipment.  Only Guildwars (from the game I played/remember) did a better  pet feature with their hero system, it's more like a party member and it's been added via expansion.  Once again, what are you expecting?[/li][/list]


On my out of my ass scale, skill system (combat) can be ranked like this :
pen & paper > Guildwars > Enemy territory & Battlefield > Eve > Diablo > HG:L > the rest > SWG

HG:L is a crippled game, released too early by a cynic dev teams but it's still a good piece of game design IMO.
MournelitheCalix
Terracotta Army
Posts: 803


Reply #23 on: January 23, 2008, 10:01:45 AM


Skills:

Summoners spammed summons.  All game.  Stupid summons that would get 1 shot constantly.


Loot:

Endgame the only loot you wear is +all attributes because the stupid stat feed system forces you too.  Either that or you can keep wearing the same gear you had at lvl 20 despite being lvl 40.  I never found a single piece of gear that had a unique or interesting stat.

The guns are all pretty different.  But every game on the planet can come up with 10 unique guns.  Unreal Tournament has been doing it for years.  The guns don't really seem to progress either, you could use the same type of gun from lvl 1 to lvl 50.



I play a summoner and I am well into nightmare.  In fact I am almost to the end and I have had no problem soloing at all.  I can tell you that I didn't experience what you have claimed.  My entourage includes a warper, 6 Earth Elementals, 3 Storm Elementals, Specter Elemental, 2 Toxic Elementals.  With this setup, I rarely have to "constantly spawn elementals," if ever.  While I will agree that both the storm elementals and Toxic elementals are fragile, the rest is never one shotted and even bosses usually don't last long enough to wipe out the whole team.  The Tower of London boss for example, I was able to solo in under 40 seconds when it was five levels my superior.  In addition, by timing the attack right I did not need to summon more than 2 elementals in the entirety of the encounter (This was not counting the time taken to get the boss into the position of turrets I wanted him to walk into).  In all to down him usually takes 2-4 vulnerability sessions.  How many sessions it takes depends usually on the status of the warper.

I must agree and disagree with you points in loot.  I agree that the gun choices seem to stop progressing fast.  I am not sure why this is, but that it does happen I have seen first hand and it is every bit as serious a problem that you have described.  I strongly disagree with you on the end game + attribute loot.  While I agree + Attribute is desireable, I have found that + to minion damage, health and armor are much more valuable to a summoner like myself.  I maximize these as well as luck.  Using this formula, I have found that not only my demons, but also my elementals last longer and hit harder. 

Born too late to explore the new world.
Born too early to explore the universe.
Born just in time to see liberty die.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #24 on: January 23, 2008, 02:41:49 PM

+% minion dmg and + % minion armor were bugged until the stonehedge patch... You are playing with placebo items.
spiralyguy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 36


Reply #25 on: January 28, 2008, 04:37:36 PM



- The summoner is about spamming summons and healing them.  Don't take fire elemental if you don't want to spam 100% of the time.  Each main summons has 2 active skills.  There's a life exchange mechanism and a drain corpse skill.  Some minor curses.  You can mix and match elemental and minion types to your liking (a few are gimped...) What are you expecting?
I'll admit, I didn't play a summoner for long.  Watched someone play till maybe 10-15 so I don't know much about this class.


Quote
- The guardian does a huge deal more than healing. Not to mention the gun guardian build (actually viable) which is the equivalent of a viable archer berserker in Diablo 2.
I'm not sure why you would be a gun guardian instead of a marksman.  There are no guardian skills that use the gun, the guardian guns have very short range, and require a good deal of accuracy points.  As a gun guardian.... you would still just anchor... shoot alot.... and heal. 


Quote
- The marksman is more straightforward but aimed at the point and shoot crowd.  The guns are diverse enough.  The sniper build is not has fast as the classic build but is still a viable alternative playstyle.
9/10 situations you can't snipe because your in a tightly enclosed area, or are being zerged by quick moving melee mobs.  The DPS on a sniper is quite poor because using the sniper scope increases your damage but also lowers your rate of fire.  Sniping is nothing but a niche skill, useful on a few select enemy types who don't charge in larger levels.


Quote
- The engineer pet is one of the most elaborate pet I ever saw in a game, mmo or single player.  You can decide it's stats, his equipment.  Only Guildwars (from the game I played/remember) did a better  pet feature with their hero system, it's more like a party member and it's been added via expansion.  Once again, what are you expecting?
The engineer drone is a lot like minions in diablo 2, you could decide their equipment too....   The thing about the pet is that, yes, you make decisions as far as how to design your drone (ranged or melee kinda thing) but once the gameplay starts the descisions are over.  It does it's own thing for the most part and you get to be a bad marskman with a stupid friend.  Maybe I am just completely biased against pets which are out of your control.


My real gripe with the skills is the lack of thought they require while playing.  You just pick a couple skills and spam the shit outta them, you don't really have to think about what you're doing.  Here's a comparison:  If I'm playing my hunter in WoW and want to ranged attack something, I can aimshot, multishot top rank, multishot rank 1, steadyshot, arcaneshot, serpentsting, huntersmark, scorpidsting, vipersting, scattershot.  Those abilities all have different effects, cast times, mana costs, and dmg output.  Those are JUST ranged abilities before getting into aspects, traps, melee abilities and pet control.  Already thats more then can even fit on hellgate's hotbar (one hotbar lol).  Contrast that to a marksman: I can shoot it with one of 3 guns.... maybe I can use rapid fire and/or beacon.  I keep wondering while playing HG:L when my brain will be forced to activate instead of just run-shoot-loot-run-shoot-loot-run-shoot-loot-run-shoot.   

Quote
  I strongly disagree with you on the end game + attribute loot.  While I agree + Attribute is desireable, I have found that + to minion damage, health and armor are much more valuable to a summoner like myself.  I maximize these as well as luck.  Using this formula, I have found that not only my demons, but also my elementals last longer and hit harder. 
Go to the HG:L forums.  Everyone there is quite open about the fact that if you want to keep equipping better loot, you need lots of gear with +all attributes.  +all attributes combined with other useful bonuses is ideal, but +attributes is vital.
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