Tell me why RMT is any different from...

[waylander]

Has anyone seen this article?

I guess we are whiney Americans and Raph is the poster boy now.

[Ratman_tf]

It took a non-gamer, Shi Yuzhu, an entrepreneur who made his first fortune marketing "vitamin tonic",

A fool and his money...

[Venkman]

Yea, was making the rounds this week. Traditional media catches up with reality years old. The only interesting thing I found about the whole thing was that the media company exposed the current owner of Zu during some enterprise he had a few years ago. Otherwise it was the usual fear-the-geeks label-it-counterculture crap. Sure took a whole lotta words to say it though.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Has anyone seen this article?

See, I don't have any problem with a game like that.  It's designed from the ground up to take real money as part of the game play.  Players know exactly what they're getting into, and an informed choice can be made.  I certainly wouldn't play a game like that, but others might and more power to them.  The key point is:  Everyone knows that real money is part of your advancement right from the start, and it is part of the game's rules.

I don't get the impression that Raph (or anyone else in this thread) thinks that advancement driven by real money in an online game is bad in principle.  Real money trades become a thorny issue when affixed to an online game that is designed with and is advertised as in-game advancement for in-game rewards.  Think what you will of typical MMO mechanics, problems result when players subvert the mechanics of any game, be it Checkers or WoW.

Honestly, I think RMT is a red herring.  The more fundamental problem is sidestepping the game rules, of which advancement and item acquisition are just two examples.

[Kiste]

Entropia Universe has prioneered the fusion of online gambling and virtual worlds years ago, long before our Chinese friends were even aware of MMOs. You buy PED for real money, you use PED to buy equipment (which degrades with usage) that enables you to gradually earn back the PED you spent but most people end up with less than they started out with. But there's always a small chance to get some really phat lewts or a rich ore vein or whatever. There's a similar chance factor associated with crafting.

It's pretty much a slot machine remodeled as a virtual world, just slightly more predictable. You have a plastic cup full of quarters, you'll lose most of the time but there's always the occasional win that keeps you motivated and refills your plastic cup to some extend. There is a chance to strike it big but most people end up losing money. The plastic cup is your PED account. Entropia pushes pretty much the same psychologic buttons that slot machine gambling does, even though it's still a virtual world with an in-game market and social interaction and stuff.

It's not that I mind MMOs using RMT as their business model but everything in Entropia has this distasteful patina of gambling. I wonder about the regulatory implications of such a business model.

[Rendakor]

IIRC, there was an article on terranova some time ago about Entropia and some scandal. Will try to find it when I get to a computer.

[tmp]

See, I don't have any problem with a game like that.  It's designed from the ground up to take real money as part of the game play.  Players know exactly what they're getting into, and an informed choice can be made.  I certainly wouldn't play a game like that, but others might and more power to them.  The key point is:  Everyone knows that real money is part of your advancement right from the start, and it is part of the game's rules.

I don't get the impression that Raph (or anyone else in this thread) thinks that advancement driven by real money in an online game is bad in principle.  Real money trades become a thorny issue when affixed to an online game that is designed with and is advertised as in-game advancement for in-game rewards.  Think what you will of typical MMO mechanics, problems result when players subvert the mechanics of any game, be it Checkers or WoW.

Don't know if you read the full article that described experience of one of the players, but there's hillarious bit in there. Namely, this game build from the ground up to draw money from players through RMT... at one point introduced the very mechanics suggested as way to combat RMT that spurred Raph's initial "zOMG you'd be killing what MMO is about with it" acrticle -- that is both items and gold being bound to players who acquired it. And that introduction was made because players were doing their own RMT, cutting into the company profits.

[Venkman]

Slot machines are social too. You're usually sitting next to someone on another machine.

[Merusk]

Slot machines are social too. You're usually sitting next to someone on another machine.

You've been to different casinos than I have.  I get dirty looks for even smiling at the old woman/ man sitting there compulsively pushing the button, because I've broken their rhythm.

[Venkman]

That was actually my point. People want you on their raid to help them get their gear. They don't want you to roll against them for it though 

"Social" is as vague as "fun". It can mean anything to anyone trying to make any point.

[tazelbain]

"Social" is as vague as "fun". It can mean anything to anyone trying to make any point.

That's very "meaningful".

[spiralyguy]

RMT's devalue the efforts and achievements of legitamate players.  RMT's create an uneven playing field for people with different levels of disposable income.

I would never consider playing a game that supported RMT's, ever.

[rattran]

On one side, we have 
On the other we have 

Conclusion:

[Murgos]

I've discovered the perfect RMT item for my upcoming game.  Everything is free but I'll charge by the packet.  Even the billing.  It's brilliant, you won't even be able to cancel without owing me money!