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Author Topic: WAR - another newsletter - more RvR, less sport PvP  (Read 495984 times)
Driakos
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Reply #1015 on: April 18, 2008, 04:44:26 AM

It's definitely not the polygon count in WoW.  The models are simple and low res.  It is the continuity between the environment, dynamics, and statics that give WoW its pop.  You don't have shiny, waxy characters, running over lambert/flat shaded terrain.  The style minimizes uncanny valley effect.

oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
Venkman
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Reply #1016 on: April 18, 2008, 05:04:49 AM

This is an old debate, where I think both sides get it wrong.

The fanbois aren't talking about fidelity. They're talking about style. Big difference there. Nobody's going to compare the fidelity of the WoW graphics to anything the enthusiast gamer refers to when they talk about fidelity. Completely different conversations.

For all the high tech that WoW's graphics aren't, Blizzard did an amazing job making a good-looking* self-consistent world that runs on anything built since 1999. That they pushed the graphics into the hyperbole has more to do with how Warcraft had been defined previously.

* subject to your own tastes of course.
Nevermore
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Reply #1017 on: April 18, 2008, 05:28:43 AM

There were more shots than just those I linked to, which I posted just because they showed RvR in action.  If you want pretty non-brown landscapes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

The clones have me wondering too.  I'm guessing it has something to do with how the beta is set up, or maybe they just don't have character customization in yet.  I mean, I'm assuming you at least get to choose to be a brown-haired elf (Elrond).

Oh look, it's Hibernia.

Over and out.
pxib
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Reply #1018 on: April 18, 2008, 07:38:58 AM

The fanbois aren't talking about fidelity. They're talking about style. Big difference there. Nobody's going to compare the fidelity of the WoW graphics to anything the enthusiast gamer refers to when they talk about fidelity. Completely different conversations.

For all the high tech that WoW's graphics aren't, Blizzard did an amazing job making a good-looking* self-consistent world that runs on anything built since 1999. That they pushed the graphics into the hyperbole has more to do with how Warcraft had been defined previously.

Indeed, this is precisely what I mean... on both sides. I don't claim that the models and textures are anything special technically... they're often overly simple and cartoonish. The character models and textures in WAR blow them out of the water, but look at actual screenshots. Zoom out and zoom in. In WoW there will be layers of detail, plants, stones, and bits of cruft on the ground... levels of texturing on the ground that give it life even in the long view. Small hills and gulleys, a variety of shrubs and trees.

Then look at this or this. Jarring transitions: dull landscape and tree models juxtaposed against wildly complex and detailed building and character models... player shadows but no scenery shadows on those cannons. Like in DAoC, the battles are happening in flat, expansive plains rather than in WoW's undulating, debris-littered fields.

Not modeling, not texture art, not lack of distinct inns and houses... ART DIRECTION.

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Nevermore
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Reply #1019 on: April 18, 2008, 07:56:48 AM


Indeed, this is precisely what I mean... on both sides. I don't claim that the models and textures are anything special technically... they're often overly simple and cartoonish. The character models and textures in WAR blow them out of the water, but look at actual screenshots. Zoom out and zoom in. In WoW there will be layers of detail, plants, stones, and bits of cruft on the ground... levels of texturing on the ground that give it life even in the long view. Small hills and gulleys, a variety of shrubs and trees.

Then look at this or this. Jarring transitions: dull landscape and tree models juxtaposed against wildly complex and detailed building and character models... player shadows but no scenery shadows on those cannons. Like in DAoC, the battles are happening in flat, expansive plains rather than in WoW's undulating, debris-littered fields.

Not modeling, not texture art, not lack of distinct inns and houses... ART DIRECTION.

That second screenshot especially is just horrible.  I mean hell, even this looks better.  Which one is the new game again?

Over and out.
Hutch
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Reply #1020 on: April 18, 2008, 08:07:07 AM

Settle in. No way we are seeing NDA drop until at least August for an October release date.
WoW dropped their NDA in, what March/April '04 for a November '04 release?

This. Up until a certain point, an NDA says "we're not 100% sure this is how the game is going to work at retail."

But after a certain point, an NDA says "We know going in that our game won't stand up to criticism, and that we aren't going to get more than two or three hundred thousand subs, so every sub counts. Keep your yap shut."

If these people want to have Blizzard level success, they really need to take better notes.

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tmp
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Reply #1021 on: April 18, 2008, 08:16:10 AM

This is an old debate, where I think both sides get it wrong.

The fanbois aren't talking about fidelity. They're talking about style. Big difference there. Nobody's going to compare the fidelity of the WoW graphics to anything the enthusiast gamer refers to when they talk about fidelity. Completely different conversations.

For all the high tech that WoW's graphics aren't, Blizzard did an amazing job making a good-looking* self-consistent world that runs on anything built since 1999. That they pushed the graphics into the hyperbole has more to do with how Warcraft had been defined previously.
Yup, i wasn't too precise with my comment there. I get the point of "style" with WoW graphics, i quite like their approach for that matter. The thing that tingles my bullshit meter though is when people talk about 'each single bit of world lovingly crafted' ... when the large parts of that words are --while certainly lovingly crafted-- the same bits reused and copied all over again. At some point it stops being 'ohh how stylish and how much it feels like it belongs here' and turns into "i've seen this shit million times already" and that doesn't imply really *that* much care put into the world design. Or at least less than people make it out to be.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 08:18:12 AM by tmp »
Ratman_tf
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Reply #1022 on: April 18, 2008, 08:28:58 AM

Warcraft's art direction has us spoiled. They went out of their way to make sure that every object, every character, every plant and bridge and building and bucket and texture felt like it belonged.
Tbh the one thing i remember from WoW is incredibly low rez textures of armour and million designs that's basically the one and the same thing in different hues. Oh and the two inn layouts all over the world. Which is certainly not unlike any other MMO out there, but it's just hardly the bees knees people make it sound to be.

QFT.  It's usually only fanbois or people who've never modeled or textured something who think the art direction is amazing in WoW.

Alls I know is that I like looking at WoW. I don't necessarily care about looking at something like Crysis. (For example)



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pxib
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Reply #1023 on: April 18, 2008, 08:32:16 AM

I get the point of "style" with WoW graphics, i quite like their approach for that matter. The thing that tingles my bullshit meter though is when people talk about 'each single bit of world lovingly crafted' ... when the large parts of that words are --while certainly lovingly crafted-- the same bits reused and copied all over again. At some point it stops being 'ohh how stylish and how much it feels like it belongs here' and turns into "i've seen this shit million times already" and that doesn't imply really *that* much care put into the world design. Or at least less than people make it out to be.
Well sure, but compare those WAR screenshots to this one. When I stop and look at it that shit still takes my breath away from time to time. Yes, it gets old but so will WAR... and faster. Those WAR screenshots are embarassing.

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tmp
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Reply #1024 on: April 18, 2008, 08:33:41 AM

Alls I know is that I like looking at WoW. I don't necessarily care about looking at something like Crysis. (For example)
I quite like looking at WoW but doubt bit higher fidelity would spoil that effect, really. Vide LotRO, e.g.

edit: and yeah, WAR is doing itself no favour posting these screens. Said about as much in the earlier reply.
Nebu
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Reply #1025 on: April 18, 2008, 08:35:00 AM

Anyone here play LotRO?  The game is beautiful.  The gameplay... forgetable. 

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1026 on: April 18, 2008, 08:39:29 AM

Art direction. Art direction. Art direction. Art direction.

Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.

I have had this discussion here before, no amount of tech (Shaders, normal maps, bloom, high poly count, magical programmer technique #48976) is going to automatically create awesome. But a high amount of solid art direction will.

I give more credit to artists that don't rely, or NEED the Tech to create incredible looking objects.

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tmp
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Reply #1027 on: April 18, 2008, 08:44:03 AM

I give more credit to artists that don't rely, or NEED the Tech to create incredible looking objects.
I'm bit wary of that simply because it's often easier to make low tech good looking caricature that relies on viewer's brain to fill the blanks, than a highly realistic item. Uncanny valley effect and all that.

This is not to say high tech makes it harder per se, but overall it's probably more difficult to fully utilize wider toolset to full effect.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #1028 on: April 18, 2008, 08:45:02 AM

I get the point of "style" with WoW graphics, i quite like their approach for that matter. The thing that tingles my bullshit meter though is when people talk about 'each single bit of world lovingly crafted' ... when the large parts of that words are --while certainly lovingly crafted-- the same bits reused and copied all over again. At some point it stops being 'ohh how stylish and how much it feels like it belongs here' and turns into "i've seen this shit million times already" and that doesn't imply really *that* much care put into the world design. Or at least less than people make it out to be.
Well sure, but compare those WAR screenshots to this one. When I stop and look at it that shit still takes my breath away from time to time. Yes, it gets old but so will WAR... and faster. Those WAR screenshots are embarassing.

Who forgot to cap the goddamned farm?!

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Reply #1029 on: April 18, 2008, 08:49:04 AM

Is HRose the Blair of WAR?  Good times ahead  awesome, for real

OMG I had forgotten all about Blair. God he was amusing in a monkey flinging feces kind of way.

One of the few people I ever banned. But he so deserved it.

Sky
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Reply #1030 on: April 18, 2008, 08:53:09 AM

Are you people intentionally not looking at the other screenshots?

LOL all wow mounts look the same only three kinds



Handcrafted loving objects everywhere, not flat and bland



Seriously, you guys are looking like fucking morons right now. Shut up until you're not ignorant, please.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #1031 on: April 18, 2008, 08:58:52 AM



Seriously,

Work on cleaning up your ui, take 5 minutes, thanks.

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1032 on: April 18, 2008, 08:59:00 AM

I give more credit to artists that don't rely, or NEED the Tech to create incredible looking objects.
I'm bit wary of that simply because it's often easier to make low tech good looking caricature that relies on viewer's brain to fill the blanks, than a highly realistic item. Uncanny valley effect and all that.

This is not to say high tech makes it harder per se, but overall it's probably more difficult to fully utilize wider toolset to full effect.

It doesn't matter if you used the fancy, expensive pen, or, if you use 12 pens. Ass is ass. Some of the greatest works of art and music are the greatest because of the simplicity and solid focus. They make it LOOK easey.

But now i'm getting all philosophical about art, and not referring to the ongoing conversation.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 09:01:16 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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tmp
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Reply #1033 on: April 18, 2008, 09:08:42 AM

It doesn't matter if you used the fancy, expensive pen, or, if you use 12 pens. Ass is ass. Some of the greatest works of art and music are the greatest because of the simplicity and solid focus. They make it LOOK easey.
Yes, what i mean is it might be quite harder to colour-coordinate your 12 pens work than single pen doodle, even if you use both options to cover exactly the same subject. The extra tools don't guarantee the better effect, they just may require you to take additional factors in the account and bring additional areas where lack of skill dooms the overall work to a fail.
Sky
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Reply #1034 on: April 18, 2008, 09:09:20 AM



Seriously,

Work on cleaning up your ui, take 5 minutes, thanks.
Because I play WoW.
HRose
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Reply #1035 on: April 18, 2008, 09:31:16 AM

Well sure, but compare those WAR screenshots to this one. When I stop and look at it that shit still takes my breath away from time to time. Yes, it gets old but so will WAR... and faster. Those WAR screenshots are embarassing.
I believe that a lot of WoW's beauty comes from ground textures and terrain modeling.

My controversial opinion is that it isn't about good art, but good TECH.

If you notice WoW's terrain is modeled in a way that is easily recognizable and every zone has the same rounded style. What I think is that Blizzard is using an editor that with a few clicks of your mouse creates pretty terrain while also placing textures on the fly, depending on the height and slopes.

Not only it allows them to keep that style consistent, but I also think they can make the terrain very quickly (and a new zone is just a set palette of new textures). Even the grass placeable are probably added by the editor itself.

I'm even sure that the style of terrain modeling has its own special technical term.

Even *YOU* can make a pretty zone in a very short time, if you had the right tools.

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Triforcer
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Reply #1036 on: April 18, 2008, 09:33:52 AM

I really hope WAR's graphics are better than those screenshots.  What killed DAoC for me (I only played the free month back in 2001) was the drabness of the landscape.  Everything was brown, black or grey.  I rolled Hibernian (lol), killed a few dark green frogs on a dark brown  hill, and then logged off forever. 

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #1037 on: April 18, 2008, 09:37:11 AM



Seriously,

Work on cleaning up your ui, take 5 minutes, thanks.
Because I play WoW.

To clarify then, in both those screenshots about 90% of the screen space is taken up by player-made addons and really have nothing to do with the game. That's something someone devoted to raiding would set up(and someone very lazy to be that cluttered) It's an unfair comparison then to introduce that as evidence when compared to developer taken screenshots meant to highlight WAR in a favorable light.

To expand on the screenshots though.

1. Durotar is brown, no excusing that really but the SS itself is of what, 50 people just putzing around? It's hard to make anything out like that regardless of the game.

2. AQ40 - it would have been a great zone if they hadn't just made the silithid caves bigger, added some more flavor work like murals or more stonework underneath but it still wasn't a horrible dungeon and it had a lot of original boss fights(though not models necessarily) I will say again though that this particular SS looks like shit not because of anything to do with wow but the addons(many of which are NOT necessary for raiding or simply badly organized)

In short Apples --> oranges

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1038 on: April 18, 2008, 09:44:50 AM

Well sure, but compare those WAR screenshots to this one. When I stop and look at it that shit still takes my breath away from time to time. Yes, it gets old but so will WAR... and faster. Those WAR screenshots are embarassing.
I believe that a lot of WoW's beauty comes from ground textures and terrain modeling.

My controversial opinion is that it isn't about good art, but good TECH.

If you notice WoW's terrain is modeled in a way that is easily recognizable and every zone has the same rounded style. What I think is that Blizzard is using an editor that with a few clicks of your mouse creates pretty terrain while also placing textures on the fly, depending on the height and slopes. The rounding again, is art direction choice, not an automatic of the tool. Its Vert smoothing.

Not only it allows them to keep that style consistent, but I also think they can make the terrain very quickly (and a new zone is just a set palette of new textures). Even the grass placeable are probably added by the editor itself.

I'm even sure that the style of terrain modeling has its own special technical term.

Even *YOU* can make a pretty zone in a very short time, if you had the right tools.

Wow Terrain = Hight map, Texture splattering, vector coloring, distance LOD, Bump/displacement, Specularity. Very old tech. 90% of game engines use it, with exceptions such as anything by ID (though newer ones have it now) and some others. Differences in Wow terrain are the inclusion of specularity, and a bump/displacement, but thats a application level requirement dependent on what your doing/need. Tech has nothing to do with it, again, this is old tech, used WELL.

Also, most of Wows terrain textures are painted on, using texture splating (Basically using many layers of textures and an alpha for each to revealing the layers underneath). guaranteed they used slope, hight, and constraints on initial creation, but that always needs to be touched up.

Point being, again, it takes someone skilled to make anything good. You can still, and will see, a sea of ass even using tools like this, and all of it means nothing with out good textures/art that are expertly crafted, lots of pre-development and follow a strong art direction.

With in a few clicks is a huge understatement.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 09:48:23 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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HRose
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Reply #1039 on: April 18, 2008, 09:47:56 AM

It makes you wonder if there's something with performance of their gfx engine that has them scrambling behind the scenes trying to fix it. Or alternatively what the performance is even going to be at all once all parts are in place.
They are using a shit engine, and already admitted in interviews that they are working hard on the performance and before the last pass the cities were moving at 2 FPS.

One should remember the incredible long clip plane of WoW and the fact, contrarily to EVERY other MMO, it has no pop-up/adapting detail (or LOD).

WoW's is amazing because it keeps awesome performance with a fuckload of players all fighting, with all spell effects on everyone and all animations fluid, without losing any detail. Every other MMO I played gets bogged down when there are more than an handful of players and usually cuts detail (spell effects, models detail, animations), and still slows down.

I said from the very beginning that Mythic's first enemy is the engine they chosen. They chosen it because they already know it, but it still is crap.

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1040 on: April 18, 2008, 09:49:53 AM

One should remember the incredible long clip plane of WoW and the fact, contrarily to EVERY other MMO, it has no pop-up/adapting detail (or LOD).

You are wrong here. Again, this is the work of very talented artists. You don't even notices the transitions, and that was the goal. Not that with the low polygon counts they have very many steps. They also use "LOD "on the textures. (ala Mip-mapping)

Once again, the real talent, is to make it look easy. They got you.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 09:56:25 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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HRose
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Reply #1041 on: April 18, 2008, 09:55:53 AM

Wow Terrain = Hight map, Texture splattering, vector coloring, distance LOD, Bump/displacement, Specularity. Very old tech. 90% of game engines use it, with exceptions such as anything by ID (though newer ones have it now) and some others. Differences in Wow terrain are the inclusion of specularity, and a bump/displacement, but thats a application level requirement dependent on what your doing/need. Tech has nothing to do with it, again, this is old tech, used WELL.
Nope, I didn't comment the rendering, I commented the *modeling*.

Even Morrowind has heightmaps. Every game now has them. And even WoW's terrain is heightmap.

The problem is that in Morrowind you click on the terrain and the terrain rises. My suspect is that WoW is using an editor that does on its own a whole lot more things. Go back at that screenshot, see all those bumpy hills in the background?

Do you really think that a designer spent a week or more modeling EVERY SINGLE ONE. And then texturing every single one?

What I'm saying is that this editor must have some preset brushes that do everything on their own. You give a general direction, a few mouse clicks and the terrain comes to life with all the textures placed and blended following a precise formula. That ALSO makes all the game, everywhere, look consistent (because they are applying textures and modeling conventions as RULES then applied by the editor itself).

I'm rather sure that if WoW's editor was leaked it would become the very biggest new of the year and a lot of people in the industry would finally see why Blizzard can, and they can't.

P.S.
Just to say. Warcraft RTS already had a lot of this. In fact you could do pretty maps much, much, much, much faster compared to all other RTS editors. And the visual quality would be indistinguishable from Blizzard's own works (beside the gameplay, obviously).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 10:01:38 AM by HRose »

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tmp
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Reply #1042 on: April 18, 2008, 10:00:11 AM

1. Durotar is brown, no excusing that really but the SS itself is of what, 50 people just putzing around? It's hard to make anything out like that regardless of the game.
I think that screenshot was in response to comment about people on WAR screenie looking like clones. Gotta admit there isn't much variety to these people all on their identical looking mounts, either.

The UI is srsly complete red herring, i believe people have enough common sense to look past it literally and on the 'in-world' content, given the context.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1043 on: April 18, 2008, 10:00:28 AM

Wow Terrain = Hight map, Texture splattering, vector coloring, distance LOD, Bump/displacement, Specularity. Very old tech. 90% of game engines use it, with exceptions such as anything by ID (though newer ones have it now) and some others. Differences in Wow terrain are the inclusion of specularity, and a bump/displacement, but thats a application level requirement dependent on what your doing/need. Tech has nothing to do with it, again, this is old tech, used WELL.
Nope, I didn't comment the rendering, I commented the *modeling*.

Even Morrowind has heightmaps. Every game now has them. And even WoW's terrain is heightmap.

The problem is that in Morrowind you click on the terrain and the terrain rises. My suspect is that WoW is using an editor that does on its own a whole lot more things. Go back at that screenshot, see all those bumpy hills in the background?

Do you really think that a designer spent a week or more modeling EVERY SINGLE ONE. And then texturing every single one?

What I'm saying is that this editor must have some preset brushes that do everything on their own. You give a general direction, a few mouse clicks and the terrain comes to life with all the textures placed and blended following a precise formula. That ALSO makes all the game, everywhere, look consistent.

I'm rather sure that if WoW's editor was leaked it would become the very biggest new of the year and a lot of people in the industry would finally see why Blizzard can, and they can't.

I can't discuss things like this if you don't know what your talking about. lol. Wows editor is nothing new (but every engine on an application level has its own special needs). In fact, you can buy just like it here.

Stephen Zepp, if you read this link this guy the post where someone imported Wow assets/tewrrain into torque please =) Looked, couldn't find it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 10:04:13 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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tmp
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Reply #1044 on: April 18, 2008, 10:10:30 AM

WoW's is amazing because it keeps awesome performance with a fuckload of players all fighting, with all spell effects on everyone and all animations fluid, without losing any detail. Every other MMO I played gets bogged down when there are more than an handful of players and usually cuts detail (spell effects, models detail, animations), and still slows down.
Now, now. WoW does get benefit of low fidelity models to help things going smoothly enough, but throw enough stuff at it and it breaks just like any other game. There's enough people bitching about performance in crowded places, and enough events crashed and burned into nothing more than lag fest to disprove that supposed amazingness.
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Reply #1045 on: April 18, 2008, 10:14:38 AM

That graphics or network lag though. For me, all times I've ever had problems has been the latter. Even on my crappy old laptop WoW runs like a dream, and at lowest settings doesn't look like butt.

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Yep, and yep. Though I don't think Turbine sacrificied game play for graphics (because I think the gameplay turned out that way due to other reasons), I do think it's a good example of a game being perceived that way.

Quote from: tmp
I'm bit wary of that simply because it's often easier to make low tech good looking caricature that relies on viewer's brain to fill the blanks, than a highly realistic item
That's exactly why I agree with Mrbloodworth though. It's easier to push technology beyond the edge in a mistaken pursuit of ultra-realism when we're still very far from that behaviorally. I think it's harder to make a game look good with old tech.

Having said that, some would say it'd be hard to make WoW's art style survive transition into, say, a photoreal Unreal engine. But then I'd just point to their CGI animations smiley
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Reply #1046 on: April 18, 2008, 10:15:29 AM

I can't discuss things like this if you don't know what your talking about. lol. Wows editor is nothing new (but every engine on an application level has its own special needs). In fact, you can buy just like it here.

Stephen Zepp, if you read this link this guy the post where someone imported Wow assets/tewrrain into torque please =) Looked, couldn't find it.
How this would prove anything?

You can import WoW's textures even in NWN2, so what?

I'm talking about tools that let you manipulate objects. Not the objects themselves. You can let someone make a picture pixel by pixel, or you can give him some broader tools. What you are saying here is that MS Paint is the exact same program of Photoshop.

SURE IS.

But can't you see that doing what Photoshop does into MS Paint would require years of work?

Tools.

So: try to use NWN2 editor to make a small zone with the terrain that look similar to WoW. Even use an existing zone as a model. I'm sure it will pass six months and you are still tweaking things.

And I'm sure it would only take a few hours to make a good looking zone with the editor Blizzard is using and that is giving that consistent look to ALL the terrain in ALL their zones.

You think this is the result of awesomely awesome art direction, or that maybe there's one slave who's doing all the terrain in all WoW. I say it's because a multitude of designers are using the same tools, so producing similar results.

And I know this because I did use tools in various games, and I know that the most difficult thing is to actually make things look DIFFERENT from everything else in the same game and produced by the same tools.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Reply #1047 on: April 18, 2008, 10:30:14 AM

That's exactly why I agree with Mrbloodworth though. It's easier to push technology beyond the edge in a mistaken pursuit of ultra-realism when we're still very far from that behaviorally. I think it's harder to make a game look good with old tech.
We may be focusing on bit different aspects then -- i'm not denying it's probably easier to add to game engine the technological bits for specular maps, normal maps, ambient occlusion and whathaveyou ... than it is to come up with consistent graphics style for the game, even if that game uses older tech. However i think these extra features themselves won't make the end effect any better in comparison if they utilize bad/mediocre art, and their existence actually increases number of areas where things are possible to go wrong and ruin the final effect... thus increasing the bar for the artist rather than lowering it.

Or in other words, when you have the game using old tech then people don't go and nitpick the quality of skin shader, if the shadows are correct, if the reflections take into account fresnel effect, if the body proportions are right, if the cloth dynamics is entirely believable... etc, because none of these things is there in your game to jump at them and make them scream 'zomg it's so badly done'
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Reply #1048 on: April 18, 2008, 10:33:19 AM

1. Durotar is brown, no excusing that really but the SS itself is of what, 50 people just putzing around? It's hard to make anything out like that regardless of the game.
I think that screenshot was in response to comment about people on WAR screenie looking like clones. Gotta admit there isn't much variety to these people all on their identical looking mounts, either.

The UI is srsly complete red herring, i believe people have enough common sense to look past it literally and on the 'in-world' content, given the context.
Yes. One shot shows many people looking similar. The other shows shitty terrain. I do not make assumptions about the entirety of WoW based on them, or I'd look exceedingly ignorant, something many people in this thread apparently have no fear of. Ignorance upon ignorance based on a couple screenshots, also ignoring other screenshots linked in this thread, and anyone who could enlighten any opinions in this thread is  NDA

The UI? Not at all part of anything I'm talking about, please stop commenting on it already.
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Reply #1049 on: April 18, 2008, 11:05:55 AM

HRose,

You are completely misunderstanding me, and making a lot of assumptions. Most of what your saying i said, i didn't, but thats not because of me (I used no moon language that i am aware of). You are just not understanding the things you are talking about.

I'm also about 90% sure War uses the same technologically (terrain wise), of course, adapted to the application layer features they need. So its once again down to the art used ETC...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 11:14:18 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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