Official EQ2 Q&A Thread

[Ardent]

Great voice overs really do help with immersion.

Would you agree that when an NPC flings the the same insult at you that you've heard 248 times before, it can be immersion-breaking, as well as being pretty damn annoying?

[Merusk]

Great voice overs really do help with immersion.

Would you agree that when an NPC flings the the same insult at you that you've heard 248 times before, it can be immersion-breaking, as well as being pretty damn annoying?

You won't escape me Ardent!  You orange-haired cartoon characters have ruined your own lands, you won't ruin mine!

[Sky]

You must gather your party before venturing forth!

[Rasix]

For what it had, Planescape Torment had some great voiceovers.

Sure did with Sheena Easton doing the voice of Anna.  I think she was dating one of the producers at the time.   Looking over the rest of the voice acting shows some pretty accomplished and well traveled voice actors.  

Good voice acting makes or breaks a game and just adds so damn much.  I don't think the last 2 Monkey Islands would have been the same without the stellar voice acting.  

Really looking forward to seeing what it brings for a MMORPG.

[Venkman]

Would you agree that when an NPC flings the the same insult at you that you've heard 248 times before, it can be immersion-breaking, as well as being pretty damn annoying?

Yes.

However, quantity of voiceovers matter. If there's just one voice, I'm turning off the repeating voice. That's not dissimilar to Peter Gibbons heading to Chachkies to escape "Corporate Account Payables. Just a miinute".

Conversely, if there's an entire town of voices, with some spatially close by, some further away, and all saying something different, that creates the acoustic din we expect from the real social environments EQ2 tries to emulate. That's the immersion EQ2 is attempting.

Whether that matters to a player is personal.

[Fargull]

Conversely, if there's an entire town of voices, with some spatially close by, some further away, and all saying something different, that creates the acoustic din we expect from the real social environments EQ2 tries to emulate. That's the immersion EQ2 is attempting.

Now that is very interesting information Darniaq.  Damn interesting.

[Sky]

"Look at him chase that chicken! It's Chicken Chaser! Look at those chickens run!"

^^

[Kageru]

I still expect, accoustically correct crowd ambience or not, players will be hitting the "shut the hell up" button so they can find out which XP generating foozles are in need of a good kicking. EQ2's choice to invest so much of their developer effort in cities also makes me wonder how developed the rest of their game is. It would help explain why they're limiting reviews and reports to the low level game.

Finally I also think people are still confusing gameplay environment and game. If you take the puzzles out of sam and max you have an animated movie. If you take the cut scenes out of sam and max you still have a game. A much poorer one, sure, the voiceovers connect the gameplay, explain the gameplay and reward the player for success. But they're still not gameplay because they do not require interaction or thought.

Incidentally I've seen two rather detailed, NDA breaking, reviews that summarised it as EQ1 for dummies.

[Venkman]

You can shut off the voiceovers. It really doesn't matter. The dialog is all menu driven anyway. The game is not affected by the voiceovers, and I doubt the development path would have been any different if they just went without them. There's a certain point a project reaches where adding more warm bodies does it no good.

If XP and loot faucets are your primary motivation, nothing prevents you from hitting Allakhazam or equivalent. EQ2 is just as grindable as EQlive. Except for the immersive qualities, and one of the few user interfaces I actually feel is good, there truly is not much of a difference between EQ2 and EQlive, nor really even in WoW. They are all flavors of the same motivations. Features are different of course, and both are vast improvements over some prior offerings. But neither is invention. I'm sure that shocks no one.

The only "innovative" thing in EQ2 and WoW is that you don't need to grind. You can actually take on dozens of quests (though I believe WoW still caps at 20) and never want for something to do. What you do on those quests is the same old stuff, but the XP, money, and item rewards are also relevant. You also don't need to schedule spawn rotations weeks in advance, but that's less innovation than simple logic applied to a niave/stupid/misinformed design decision.

Unfortunately, mudflation will affect both. Even though equipment scales with level, quests do not. Just like in EQlive, you can take a quest in these new games that results in a ridiculously inferior item, or an imperceptable XP or monetary reward. Eventually that quest gets ignored, as are  thousands of quests in EQlive. It's an endemic problem with static content, no matter that the static content is designed to ensure newbs three years later have something to do.

Veteran MMORPGers will see a bunch of stuff they expected. Some will beat the games because that is what they do. Others will try and suspend their disbelief for a time, and maybe they actually will. Both are enjoyable for similar reasons, but both tweak things to appeal to slightly different types of players.

Until level 20. Because I don't know anything beyond that.

[Kageru]

Actually SOE recently announced that *they* would be providing a complete listin of all items in the game on their website. And for 99 cents you can get the full stats of every item in the game, for another 99 cents you can upload your characters gear and display it publically.

I will be extremely interested to see if EQ2 can maintain quest based progression to the endgame. Given that the levelling curve is subtantially greater than WoW's the amount of content that would demand would be impressive. This assumes that the quests are hand constructed (WoW) as opposed to machine generated (SWG, EQ). WoW has also pledged to provide quest progression (hero classes, life quests) in the end game which is somewhat novel I think?

But yes, neither of them is massively innovative because both of them want to attract massive populations, which means they need to aim at the casual / mainstream audience. Both of them have some controls on mudflation I would think, given they both have strict level limits on all items and WoW is extremely agressive with the no-drop tag.

[personman]

Actually SOE recently announced that *they* would be providing a complete listin of all items in the game on their website. And for 99 cents you can get the full stats of every item in the game, for another 99 cents you can upload your characters gear and display it publically.

This pissed me off at first.  But the more I think about it the more I like it.  As a general MOG feature that is.

[Kageru]

Goodness, how unexpected;

"The main issue I have with the quests however is that hailing everyone in the zones takes a long time and you have no idea who will give you a quest or not, in fact some are just lore NPC's who tell you a story for a minute without giving you a quest. For this reason I find myself just speed hailing everyone. I hail them then click past all the speech quickly so I can get the quest and move onto the next person. Your quest journal holds all of the information you need, so there is little to no point in listening to the audio voice as it mostly just spends ages getting to the point that you can get in two seconds by looking at your journal."

The review itself is pretty extensive, but the tone is not overly positive;

http://www.jaded-gamer.com/content.php?article.52

[Soukyan]

Actually SOE recently announced that *they* would be providing a complete listin of all items in the game on their website. And for 99 cents you can get the full stats of every item in the game, for another 99 cents you can upload your characters gear and display it publically.

This pissed me off at first.  But the more I think about it the more I like it.  As a general MOG feature that is.

And cheaper than paying for Allakhazam's "premum" content.

Magelo, on the other hand, was free, no?

[Kageru]

It was perfectly functional without paying, as was allakhazam. Becoming a subscriber to Magelo let you download a tool that would automatically keep your character up to date and thus verify it as accurate. An important element in the EQ-peen wars. And of course magelo led to a web site that sorted them on various attributes, so you could know where you fit in the game.

Whether SOE absorbing all these functions actually leads to a growth in the community is more than a little dubious though.

[personman]

With how often I use it (it's hard to get good armor without crafters around), it should be called Grief-Grouping.

Is the crafting/resource gathering at all interesting?  I like to run a merchant template about a third of the time and a gatherer/explorer another third.  If it's good stuff I'd be interested in the beta afterall.

[Ironwood]

Fable without the voices would have been total crap. I enjoyed the important characters voices. For example, that cajun chick's voice made me want to kill her. Repeatedly. With a crossbow.

I couldn't imagine Leisure Suit Larry without voices with the great job they did with the last one (even though the game was lackluster).

For what it had, Planescape Torment had some great voiceovers. And how can you forget Boo & Minsc from Baldur's Gate.

Jesus, I don't even know why I'm entertaining such a comment.

And you all seem to have forgotten KOTOR.  

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Meatbag.

[shiznitz]

No one has asked about the betrayal quests. Is that only available after level 20? That would be news in and of itself.

[Venkman]

No one has asked about the betrayal quests. Is that only available after level 20? That would be news in and of itself.

You can do them before then. No one's mentioned them because not many people have done them. Very dedicated players who want that Troll Ranger (Evil race/Good class) will go for it (start in Freeport, level to high teens, betray), but the rest will just create an Elf Ranger (Good Race/Good Class) and start in Qeynos (start in good city).

Is the crafting/resource gathering at all interesting? I like to run a merchant template about a third of the time and a gatherer/explorer another third. If it's good stuff I'd be interested in the beta afterall

Crafting is a grind, but it takes longer and requires you hit keys when specific events pop up. In the sub-20 game, most recipes can be crafted with store-bought goods, from NPCs that are in the same tradeskill zones in which you conduct your crafting. It's a matter of having the money to do that. Non-twinks can afford it, but only if they don't dedicate themselves solely to crafting. Twinks can afford it more. Guild-supported mules can afford it most of all. Par for the course.

Resource gathering involves running around looking for dynamically spawned objects you can /harvest from. It is more visually interesting than UO's hidden resource points, more dynamic than WoW's static resource points (though the interface for harvesting is the same), and a lot less unnecessarily convoluted than SWG's resource surveying and harvesting. It has UO-like variables too. The same resource point can result in different harvested stuff.

And the interface that drives resource gathering also facilitates many non-craft-related quests. Just like WoW.

[Ardent]

Your quest journal holds all of the information you need

In EQ2, your quest journal is sorted by the quest source location (the place where you got the quest from). In WoW, your quest journal is sorted by the quest destination (where you have to go to do the thing).

The game that will win the quest journal wars, in my eyes, will be the first to allow you to sort both ways at your choosing. That way you can sort by destination when you're off to go adventuring, then sort by source when you're ready to turn in your quests for XP and phat lewt.

[Venkman]

Actually SOE recently announced that *they* would be providing a complete listin of all items in the game on their website. And for 99 cents you can get the full stats of every item in the game, for another 99 cents you can upload your characters gear and display it publically.

Yep. $0.99 per month per feature, or $2.99 for all four.

A bit extra per month for what players have done themselves for years. Those players didn't get that for "free" though. They had to pay for hosting, maybe a URL, maybe the EZboard block-banner premium, maybe they paid Magelo or Allakhazam.

This is a nice idea. It's a shame SOE had to charge for it, but an extra dollar or three a month is simply being paid to them instead of others.

I have no idea how good the service will be of course :)

[shiznitz]

No way SOE will do it as well as an independent site. The updates will probably lag reality and acquisition details. Allakhazam provided the where and how for items, not just the stats. I don't see SOE spoiling themselves to the same extent.

[Liquidator]

Goodness, how unexpected;

"The main issue I have with the quests however is that hailing everyone in the zones takes a long time and you have no idea who will give you a quest or not, in fact some are just lore NPC's who tell you a story for a minute without giving you a quest. For this reason I find myself just speed hailing everyone. I hail them then click past all the speech quickly so I can get the quest and move onto the next person. Your quest journal holds all of the information you need, so there is little to no point in listening to the audio voice as it mostly just spends ages getting to the point that you can get in two seconds by looking at your journal."

The review itself is pretty extensive, but the tone is not overly positive;

http://www.jaded-gamer.com/content.php?article.52

That's a poor design decision.  They should really do something like World of Warcraft where you are able to diferentiate between a standard NPC and a quest NPC.

[schild]

Meh. I like immersive worlds. That's one thing EQ2 provides in spades. Just because that powergaming jackass didn't like that he could read the quest journal faster than the people spoke doesn't mean that the Micromachines guy (from the 80's commercials) should do all the voiceovers.

I'll finish reading it later, though I probably shouldn't since I'll eventually get around to my writeup.

[Venkman]

That's a poor design decision. They should really do something like World of Warcraft where you are able to diferentiate between a standard NPC and a quest NPC.

I feel that's why SOE is not doing it though. It's about flavor. Nothing says "game" like a bunch of NPCs with floating icons over their heads. It's easier to suspend one's disbelief without them.

Conversely, those icons are good motivators. Instant content, a beacon of something to do. So many players of EQ2 beta really don't think there are many quests. They end up trying to find something to grind until they work up the courage to complain about it, only then becoming corrected by the answers.

[Fargull]

Agreed,

But why could SOE not have the frikken quest NPC's wave at you, or yell, 'Hey Dude, I have a quest for you." when they get with in range of the approach bubble?  Or do they?

Honestly, the [!] from WOW works in my book.  I friggin hated quests in EQ that made me track down some idiot in the middle of some multi zone city...

[Riggswolfe]

Well, I may be out of bounds here since I haven't tried EQ2 but it sounds to me like the strategies for WoW vs EQ2 in the quest giver NPC area boil down to this

WoW: Easy to find, convenient, just look for the !

EQ2: Immersive

I suppose both approaches have their pluses. In a perfect world we could have both. :) Maybe the NPC doesn't look different or anything but you have a waypoint on your ingame radar. Assuming EQ2 has one of course.

[Ardent]

The [!] to find NPCs that have quests is nice, but not essential.

The REAL life-savers are the [?] to figure out who it is you're trying to find, and to avoid spending 10-15 frustrating minutes trying to track down the guy you took the quest from in the first place.

[Venkman]

But why could SOE not have the frikken quest NPC's wave at you, or yell, 'Hey Dude, I have a quest for you." when they get with in range of the approach bubble?  Or do they?

It does. For example, there's an NPC in Nettleville Hovel (a Qeynosian starting zone) that lost a broom. You know this because you're running by and she complains that she's lost her broom in both text and voiceover. If you talk to her, you get a quest to help her find a broom.

The voiceovers in EQ2 are like the exclamation points in WoW. They're just far less obvious.

And they're counterintuitive to some experienced MMORPGers. It honestly didn't occur to me to interact with that NPC until the third time I ran by :) It's only after that point I recognized the purpose of the voiceover, even though I had already been /hailing everything that moved because of previous conditioning in SWG and EQlive.

[Sky]

It's simple, imo. If you want the !, go play WoW. Problem solved.

The guy who skips the VOs and just checks his journal? Great for him, if he wants to reduce the game to it's bare fundamental. I just hope that some bone-headed designer doesn't 'fix' that 'problem' in some way that's crappy for the players who enjoy the immersion.

But my opinion is along the lines of most of my opinions, it's about choices. If enough people want the !, then put a checkbox in the options menu somewhere and let them see quest npcs. Voila, both camps are satisfied.

[Nebu]

I enjoy the immersion of NPC stories and lengthy quest dialogue.  I can see a place where limiting this a bit might help: alternate characters.  We all dabble with more than one character at any given time and it can be a bit less than immersive to hear the same stories for the 5th or 6th time.  

Sky's suggestion of a toggle may actually make the system a bit more replay friendly: Turn off the lengthy dialogue for the quests you've done, toggle it on for those you have yet to experience (i.e. class, faction, or alignment specific quests).  Or another alternative may just be to allow the shortening of quest dialogue below level 20.

[shiznitz]

Coloring the names of quest NPCs differently wouldn't change immersion at all, although it might screw the colorblind.

[Fargull]

Dammit Darniaq.. now I am more interested in EQII.  I swore SOE would not tarnish any more of my soul since SWG lanced my spirit with its disease.

Now I will see how many bloody MMORPG's I can play at once...

[Venkman]

It is really about options, and I'm with Sky and shiznitz here.

It really wouldn't break immersion in any meaningful way to have either the exclamation point nor color-coded NPC names (they are already color-coded, but they could just add more colors) as an option.

[*]You can check an option that displays this big honkin' pulsing arrow over an NPC/mobs head, color-coded for con and whether it's aggressive or not.
[*]You can check an option that projects a rotating halo around the feet of the target NPC.
[*]You can have both and the NPCs name on as well.
[*]You can have all of that plus have the NPC glow when you mouseover them (as interactive ground objects in both EQ2 and WoW do). [/list:u]
None of these are what someone would point to as high examples of total escapist immersion.

I don't have some of those on. I have the foot-based rotating halo and pulsing arrow on, but I'm still trying to decide which I like more. The halo is useless is group vs group combat. Too much stuff in the way. However, the pulsing arrow does get in the way of the beauty of the game, particularly when I'm exploring. I've been looking for some /slash command that toggles these two, hoping to make a quick macro for them so I can just hit a key on the fly.

I also don't run around with full-time NPC names overhead, though I do spam the Select Next NPC key when looking around an area. I like the effect of seeing inhabitants but not immediately knowing who they are until I go in for a closer look. My eyesight in real-life sucks to (that's not a shocker though). I sometimes turn player names off, and can because EQ2 uses chat bubbles so it's easy to see who's saying what if they're within view.

But everyone's different. Nobody's wrong, unless they try to present their preferences as Good Game Design(tm) to anyone who has different preferences :)

[Liquidator]

The Bard was one of my favorite classes in the original Everquest, even though I never played one past level 30 - by the time I finally rolled one, I had played the game for years and come back from my second burnout so I didn't last long.  Anyway, Bards were always a welcome addition to any group I was in, and from my brief time with the class, they were very enjoyable.  What with all the song twisting and versatility.

Just curious if anyone has played one in EQ2 and how they compare to the original Bard from EQ?

[Venkman]

Just curious if anyone has played one in EQ2 and how they compare to the original Bard from EQ?

I am. It's my primary, though lately I've switched back to Sorcery. Flash bangs are fun.

I loved my EQlive Bard. My all-time favorite character, requiring a good amount player dexterity skills over the more mental skills of the other classes. But when I learned twisting was out for EQ2 (being something of an accident in EQlive in the first place), I went into the beta with lowered expectations.

Bards here are very different. They are more Scouts with songs than twisting machines, like DAoC Bards. What they lost with twisting they've gained in melee and stealth. Melee combat here is pretty fun. As schild put it, Scouts are like Ginsu knives. Scouts are not Fighters, but they aren't paperdolls either.

So the choice to play the class is more a function of what they do (group buffs, song-based damage types, melee and stealth) rather than how they did it. They are not as different from other classes and sub-classes as EQlive Bards were from everything else.

Oh, and there's no Selos. Scouts get the Pathfinding skill, which is group-SoW, but it's nowhere near as fast. :)