Spider-Man is going to be a fucking goddamned retard. (SPOILERS)

[Margalis]

I've always hated her in the comics. They never know what to do with her really, especially when there isn't a lot of marital strife. It got *really* bad in the issues McFarlane was drawing in the 90s where they put here in every comic for the cheesecake factor as the plotlines around her got more and more ludicrous, like being kidnapped by a stalker who loved her Soap Opera or some shit.

The Black Cat has always been a much better love interest.

[rk47]

my most vivid memory is always MJ stripping in front of a depressed Peter to help him recharge his batteries.

[Jain Zar]

Oh yeah, and the Hulk eats motherfuckers in Ultimates. I don't mean, "he beats the shit out of them," eats, I mean he literally has a meal on motherfuckers because Captain America told the Hulk they called him gay.

Ultimate Hulk is a lot like Alan Moore's Mr. Hyde.

I don't think Ultimate Hulk engaged in violent fatal sodomy with anyone...
Ate people and got hit in the nards sure!

[Ironwood]

my most vivid memory is always MJ stripping in front of a depressed Peter to help him recharge his batteries.

Nah, the worst was during McFarlane's run when Spidey webbed his wife to the walls bondage style and was last seen leering over her poon.

Good times.

You know, for the kids.

[Llava]

I don't think Ultimate Hulk engaged in violent fatal sodomy with anyone...
Ate people and got hit in the nards sure!

I meant in that he's Banner's unrestrained id, but yeah, you're right, there was a disturbing lack of violent sodomy in the Ultimates.

[HaemishM]

Spidey 3 really did fuck the chances for Spidey 4 unless they subtitle it "The Naked Cash Grab." It sucked so hard on so many levels, but the main one being there was too much shit stuffed in it that nothing had a chance to breathe. Oh and Emo Peter was idiotic. He didn't need the suit or the emo twist to seem like a douchebag, he started the movie as a douchebag and never got anything but worse.

[HaemishM]

Finally got around to reading the first issue of Brand New Day.

Wow, Peter is a fucking loser and a half. They really are trying to return him to the 1970's status quo. The Jackpot stuff was awful. Peter's living with his aunt and whiny to himself about his problems and he gave up being Spider-Man because he didn't want to register.

This isn't Spider-Man. It's not even Ben Reilly. It's not even a degrading clone. It's just shit.

[Samwise]

My only problem with 3, was that they forced Venom on Raimi.  It just needed more Sandman.

That was your only problem with it?  When he starts to turn emo, sees himself in a mirror and intentionally emoflips his hair didn't bother you?  The dancing in the streets didn't bother you?

That was just part of the Venom/symbiote plot.  So I think it's still fair to say that Venom was the main source of suck in the movie.

The slapfight between Emo Peter and Evil Harry was fun, though.  I'll give them that.

[rk47]

my most vivid memory is always MJ stripping in front of a depressed Peter to help him recharge his batteries.

Nah, the worst was during McFarlane's run when Spidey webbed his wife to the walls bondage style and was last seen leering over her poon.

pics or it never happened

[lovecraft]

Isn't that the problem inherent in how comic book stories are written? That they never really advance the characters and their world and just try and keep them in this perpetual state of continuity where things happen but nothing really changes?

The fact that all these characters have to be intertwined creates a cluster fuck that necessitates universe reboots.  I look at pretty much every manga ever created and I like how they have a beginning, an end, and a good progression in their stories.  Need an American example? Punisher: MAX.  Self-contained, excellent book.  Probably has to deal with how writers and artists are constantly shifted in and out of properties whereas manga doesn't have that.  The art shifts on Punisher: MAX don't bother me immensely, but when Garth Ennis leaves the title, I honestly hope they do not produce anymore Punisher: MAX stories.

When I think of the story of Spider-Man, I cannot honestly tell you what the point is aside from milking a character concept for 45+ years.  I think they used to tell stories back in the 70s? You know, using Spider-Man to explore concepts of race and the such.

If that made any sense, let me know.  I fully expect it didn't.

I think you nailed the difference between "western", i.e. American, Comics and Asian Manga.  The latter tell stories whereas the former push a franchise.  If the character changes you risk alienating fans or ultimately ending the money train.  That is why I hate monthly comics.  they are an exercise in whoredom. 

[Velorath]

I think you nailed the difference between "western", i.e. American, Comics and Asian Manga.  The latter tell stories whereas the former push a franchise.  If the character changes you risk alienating fans or ultimately ending the money train.  That is why I hate monthly comics.  they are an exercise in whoredom. 

I guess if you want to push bullshit generalizations, then you have a point.

[Jain Zar]

I think you nailed the difference between "western", i.e. American, Comics and Asian Manga.  The latter tell stories whereas the former push a franchise.  If the character changes you risk alienating fans or ultimately ending the money train.  That is why I hate monthly comics.  they are an exercise in whoredom. 

I guess if you want to push bullshit generalizations, then you have a point.

Its Marvel and DC to a T.  The companies hardly exist to print comics anymore.  Its more an IP holding center than anything else.

The indies are of course different.  (And creator or artsy driven lines like Vertigo.)

[Azazel]

Having just read this thread, I'm more glad than ever I quit my Marvel Superhero comics-reading years ago.

[Velorath]

I think you nailed the difference between "western", i.e. American, Comics and Asian Manga.  The latter tell stories whereas the former push a franchise.  If the character changes you risk alienating fans or ultimately ending the money train.  That is why I hate monthly comics.  they are an exercise in whoredom. 

I guess if you want to push bullshit generalizations, then you have a point.

Its Marvel and DC to a T.  The companies hardly exist to print comics anymore.  Its more an IP holding center than anything else.

The indies are of course different.  (And creator or artsy driven lines like Vertigo.)

So his point is true aside from numerous cases where it isn't.  Got it.

Having just read this thread, I'm more glad than ever I quit my Marvel Superhero comics-reading years ago.

I guess that's easier than just not reading the shitty stuff.

[Azazel]

Having just read this thread, I'm more glad than ever I quit my Marvel Superhero comics-reading years ago.

I guess that's easier than just not reading the shitty stuff.

I did that for awhile. Vertigo, Dark Horse, Grendel, Sandman, Hellblazer, Hellboy, Disney Donald Duck/Scrooge stuff by Carl Barks and Don Rosa. Odd bits of AVP, Batman One-shots, When Ennis and Crotchlow left Hellblazer I started getting Preacher, The Punisher as my guilty pleasure even before Ennis took over. Anything interesting by Alan Moore, Frank Miller or other authours of note. Went in every month or three to pick up the new stuff, since I prefer to read any title in a batch rather than little snippets of so many stories on a monthly basis. Eventually I lapsed.

But fuck, every time I go into a comic store to browse these days I see the fucking things are about $5+ each. They're just not worth the money to me anymore. Like Games Workshop/Miniatures stuff. The price has increased so much, that despite the fact that I have way more disposable income now than I did back then, I can't justify spending it on that stuff to myself.

[Jain Zar]

Having just read this thread, I'm more glad than ever I quit my Marvel Superhero comics-reading years ago.

I guess that's easier than just not reading the shitty stuff.

I did that for awhile. Vertigo, Dark Horse, Grendel, Sandman, Hellblazer, Hellboy, Disney Donald Duck/Scrooge stuff by Carl Barks and Don Rosa. Odd bits of AVP, Batman One-shots, When Ennis and Crotchlow left Hellblazer I started getting Preacher, The Punisher as my guilty pleasure even before Ennis took over. Anything interesting by Alan Moore, Frank Miller or other authours of note. Went in every month or three to pick up the new stuff, since I prefer to read any title in a batch rather than little snippets of so many stories on a monthly basis. Eventually I lapsed.

But fuck, every time I go into a comic store to browse these days I see the fucking things are about $5+ each. They're just not worth the money to me anymore. Like Games Workshop/Miniatures stuff. The price has increased so much, that despite the fact that I have way more disposable income now than I did back then, I can't justify spending it on that stuff to myself.

Comics aren't quite 5 bucks for 22 pages yet.  The most expensive seems to be IDW with their 3.99 for a Transformers comic.  That mostly just jerks off the G1 fanboys with the same tired shit anyhow.  The cheapest seems to be the kid's books.  Teen Titans Go! is like 2.25-2.50.  DC knows how to use cheap paper though.  Few other companies do.  DC will even use it for trades.

The big problem with DC and Marvel being considered comics in the US is unless you want to count Manga and Indies (many comics fans do not), Marvel and DC's mainline stuff IS comics.  The majority of the market, mind, and journalism (to a lesser degree) -share belongs to these pamplets with crappy, irrelevant stories.

When I was playing Heroclix the other players that bought comics were 99% mainstream Marvel (the other 1 being Star Wars comics).  I was the only person buying DC or Indies.  (And much of my Indies mostly meant Transformers or other liscensed books I am ashamed to admit.  I tried pimping Powers and Invincible (which if you don't read my answer is READ THEM NOW) which are supers done RIGHT, but it mostly fell on deaf ears..)

[Margalis]

When I started buying comics they were .75 each. Less than a decade later they were 2.25+. That is a little absurd.

They also take up a lot of space and are hard to store properly.

[Llava]

Things make me angry!

When I was a kid, I could buy a gumball for a nickel!

Sesame Street has grossly failed to mature with its audience!

[Margalis]

I think pointing out that prices increased 3-4x in a decade is fair.

If you compare comics to the price of things like books, movies, music, etc, the comic prices have proportionally risen. Given how long it takes to read the average comic book it just isn't worth it in most cases. The paper quality has improved but the stories haven't and issues are delayed much more frequently than they used to be.

Comic books are no longer something you just buy casually.

[stray]

TPB's are kind of worth it to me. Usually they're about 7 issues for $10.

[Velorath]

TPB's are kind of worth it to me. Usually they're about 7 issues for $10.

Espcially ordering from somewhere like Amazon that tends to have decent discounts on their books.

[Simond]

Or just buy manga instead. 

[Jain Zar]

Or just buy manga instead. 

The problem is manga sucks just as badly and panders to its fanbase just as hard as western comics do.

Even worse is its another culture and not everyone can relate to their characters and situations as well.

[Azazel]

Comics aren't quite 5 bucks for 22 pages yet.  The most expensive seems to be IDW with their 3.99 for a Transformers comic.  That mostly just jerks off the G1 fanboys with the same tired shit anyhow.  The cheapest seems to be the kid's books.  Teen Titans Go! is like 2.25-2.50.  DC knows how to use cheap paper though.  Few other companies do.  DC will even use it for trades.

Sorry, forgot to point out that I'm talking AU$, and while I know air freight shipping and heavy paper goods are not friends, the average super-hero comic is $6 here. Wasn't that long ago when they were in the $2-$2.50 range.

I think pointing out that prices increased 3-4x in a decade is fair.

If you compare comics to the price of things like books, movies, music, etc, the comic prices have proportionally risen. Given how long it takes to read the average comic book it just isn't worth it in most cases. The paper quality has improved but the stories haven't and issues are delayed much more frequently than they used to be.

Comic books are no longer something you just buy casually.

.

Agreed on all counts. Conversely, a new-release video game is pretty much exactly the same price as it was in the SNES days. Movies have increased by about 50%.

Games Workshop stuff has increased in price by the same (or a higher) proportin as comics, and I also no longer buy that either, except for the occasional purchase.

[HaemishM]

Comics were .35 cents when I started buying them. /canewave

Young fuckers.

Comics as a monthly medium are really inefficient ways to tell stories, but they are really good for keeping the lights on. I'd prefer if the comics industry would go to a direct download for the monthlies, maybe on a per issue pricing scheme or a subscription service. Put out the TPB's every six months or when it's fucking worth it. There are few monthly comics that are written as monthlies anymore. They are being written as 6-issue TPB's that get doled out in shittily paced fashion, and most work better as TPB's anyway. Single-issue stories are an anamoly these days.

$2.50 for a single monthly issue that is actually 1/6th of the story padded out with five full-page spreads is fucking criminal.

[Margalis]

35 cents? When was that, 1963? 

[Jain Zar]

35 cents? When was that, 1963? 

Late 70s.  Comics shot up in price pretty steadily since then.  In the mid 80s they were 60 cents.  By 90-91 they were a buck a pop.

[Mazakiel]

As cheap as they were then in comparison to now, I eventually got cut off because of how many I'd get and read through pretty quickly.  At the price they are nowadays, I'd have never been able to even begin collecting them.  Even if I'd gone the lawn mowing for cash route, I'd have not been able to afford anywhere near what I read at today's prices.  It's insane.  And it's even getting to the point where the TPBs feel like a waste of money because the story's so padded to fill out the page count.  I pretty much get my fill of semi-current comic happenings by grabbing a drink at the Barnes & Noble and sitting down with a stack of TPBs.  As shitty as the stories are of late, though, even that's not happening. 

[Llava]

Maybe I'm just rich as all hell  or maybe I just don't buy that many comics, but it costs me $10-$20 a week to read what I read.  That's... not that expensive.