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Topic: Lineage 2 Open Beta (Read 44675 times)
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42629
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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Played some. One word.
ARGH.
More coming for the front page when I play a little more.
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Arthur_Parker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5865
Internet Detective
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Can we have pretty pictures in the review please :P
Just managed to log back in after a couple of hours trying, killed 4 mobs and then they all disappeared again.
Should be a smooth release as so much is going wrong in the open beta...
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ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527
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I noticed that if I go to the L2 message boards and look in the upper left corner, if the number of active users on the boards is less than 2500, I can log into the game with no problems.
On Sunday, it was 8k+ users on the boards, it only went down to 2k after midnight. Now there are 6k, probably impossible to get into the game.
Incidentally, they had 40k registered board users at the end of the closed beta. The next day the number jumped to 65k. The boards use your in-game userid, but I'm not sure if it actually registers every in-game player.
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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I played this game for a sum total of 8 hours. Never in my life did I ever see a game so devoid of content in the low to mid levels as Lineage 2. It's just awful, I like having fun at low level. Mid level I can see being the bottleneck in any game, especially when it's just a race to get to the end game.
I also hated the complete and total lack of customization for characters. This may have directly affected how much I liked the diversity in CoH. I do understand the lack of diversity is so that they can render tons of people during a castle siege, but this was just rediculous. At any given time, I could look around and see carbon copies of myself.
At first I thought releasing Lineage 2 and CoH at the same time was stupid of NCSoft, but it's not. Let all the insane catassers eat up Lineage 2 while CoH gets all the people who realize how shitty Lineage 2 turned out to be (oh, and the comic book geeks. My god, the comic book geeks).
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Daeven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1210
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Daevens massively extensive review of Lineage 2 to this point:
It is a very pretty engine.
But it offers nothing new at this point to the table.
I'll try to force my self to play a bit more to see if there is anything else, but Far Cry is calling me.....
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"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
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kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113
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I would have to agree with schild on this one. City of heros grabs you and is fun pretty much from character creator on. Lineage I think would be fun but only if you have a very big active guild and it starts pretty dull.
To give you an example take dwarfs. To make the ub3r shinies you need dwarfs of two types. One type to get the rare loot needed and the other to make stuff with it. These dwarfs get ZERO combat skills to assist in mole wacking till at least level 20.
So yes folks dwarves need 20 levels of click and pray leveling before it gets less painful. Now if you have many rear ends of felines and get up to there you will have lots of crafting and not bad combat skills but yeee gods the treck to that point is LONG.
I don't see playing lineage 2 after beta but I have already preordered COH.
One good thing about lineage is I think it will be a good fit for those who liked shadowbane but were just put off by the uglieness and the crashing. Lineage was holding up pretty well under some IMMENSE HUGE HORRID crowds of newbies. The servers went down a couple of times but my god in the newbie elf zone there were 500 600 people wacking foxes.
Kaid
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ClumsyOaf
Guest
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But it offers nothing new at this point to the table.
How about the combination of a very poorly implemented notoriety system (you get flagged for attacking someone who is flagged), people who are entitled to kill certain mobs, and people who just can't help but attack anyone who is flagged. It's at least 5 years since noto-pking was this easy. |
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Alluvian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1205
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I played this game for a sum total of 8 hours. Never in my life did I ever see a game so devoid of content in the low to mid levels as Lineage 2. Did you play AC2 in beta? I found L2 to be at least much better than that in regards to content. No comment on current AC2 since I won't touch it. I also hated the complete and total lack of customization for characters. This may have directly affected how much I liked the diversity in CoH. Understandable as you state in lineage, but does not mean we have to like it. Hell, the first lineage only had like 3 character models didn't it? It had LESS models than the original diablo. I see you have come around to CoH. Wonder if people will remember the comments you drop now or the venom spewing hate you were flinging on the old boards about how it sucked because of no pvp? I understand you wanting to play a game before you choose to like it. That is only logical. But HATING a game before you play it for silly reasons is just as stupid as LIKING a game you have not played. In the case of CoH you seemed to hate it while at the same time not knowing a single thing about it. Like calling the heroes cookie cutter when finally now you can see they are FAR from that. At first I thought releasing Lineage 2 and CoH at the same time was stupid of NCSoft, but it's not. Let all the insane catassers eat up Lineage 2 while CoH gets all the people who realize how shitty Lineage 2 turned out to be (oh, and the comic book geeks. My god, the comic book geeks). One is SB redone basically. The other appeals to... um... I have no idea. I fear CoH will have very small numbers. I don't know how many want to play a superhero mmog even if it is a very well done one. On pure mechanics it is probably the best one yet (which is not saying that much really). But the superhero genre is pretty niche I fear. I hope I am wrong. And before you bring up all the superhero movies, watching a movie is far less geeky than roleplaying a superhero. I am a geek though, and will camp it up in Freedom Force fashion when it amuses me. |
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Arthur_Parker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5865
Internet Detective
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Well I'm still hopeful about this one. Currently level 9 Dwarf intending to be a Scavenger playing on Server 2 which has lots of old time AC/SB guilds on it, so I'm hoping the political scene develops to something like Darktide.
I believe there is a lot more content after level 20 and your first career change.
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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Alluvian, I'm going to shorten the quotes so that this post doesn't stretch 2 pages.
AC2 comments
I don't want to compare current games to past failures. That just results in mediocrity. History has proven this. Either way, I haven't actually played AC2 since I heard it was like, the worst game ever made. Or something to the tune of that. Lineage 1 customization vs. Diablo Again, comparing past games, even though Lineage was a success doesn't account for much. Since Star Wars Galaxies came out, I DEMAND customization to the extreme. I *liked* looking different than everyone else. I've yet to see ANYONE in CoH that looks anywhere near how I look. My past hatred and reference to some comments I made about PvP I hated the idea of no pvp. I'll admit that. But from the looks of it, it seems they are well on their way to implementing pvp. I've come to like the idea that a game wants to get PvE right first, before implementing what will unbalance the system. Right now, if they implemented PVP my character would be fucked by anyone with a ranged weapon. I am surprised at the wide range of powers and the variables attached to each, and now agree that PVP would not work in the games current state. From dev comments, it does however seem that PVP is implemented in rudimentary form to the point that devs come in the game every once and a while and battle it out with hordes of player heroes. Niche gameplay and Superhero role-playing I hope so too. This game deserves a massively following. It's extremely polished and very streamlined. They've done an excellent job at balancing. I've yet to see people cry nerf as to the players. The only bitching seems to be that some bosses are forcing soloers to group - which I guess upsets some people (though my favorite aspect of the game is grouping). One more thing, who said you had to roleplay a hero? My character is a wonky looking german dude who fights with his fists and can hover. He looks more like someone straight out of the Kraftwerk era of German Music more than any sort of Marvel comic book hero. On the whole I'm excited about CoH - I've played it, it shows incredible promise, on my computer it's near flawlessly stable - I've found some game crashing bugs but they are so far and in between I don't even notice (unfortunately it is unplayable on my laptop - but I'm sure that will be fixed this week). I would suggest this game to anyone who finds Lineage 2 boring and an awful treadmill. I've yet to notice the treadmill in CoH, yet there is a steep one. That, in my opinion, is a good sign of things to come. Hopefully the NDA will end and I can stop making gross generalizations about the game. |
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Daeven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1210
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But it offers nothing new at this point to the table.
How about the combination of a very poorly implemented notoriety system (you get flagged for attacking someone who is flagged), people who are entitled to kill certain mobs, and people who just can't help but attack anyone who is flagged. It's at least 5 years since noto-pking was this easy. What's new about a crappy noto system? As you said, that was done 5 years ago. ;) |
"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
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Malathor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 196
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A useful guilde to L2, that explains what the game is about, how it works, who it is for and who it is not for. http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~darsen/L2guide.htmLineage 2 makes no attempt to appeal to everyone. That is both its strength, and its weakness. |
"Too much is always better than not enough." -Dobbs
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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A useful guilde to L2, that explains what the game is about, how it works, who it is for and who it is not for.
You'll like this game if...
You like treadmills
You like working closely with a medium-sized but very close group of people
You like PvP but not random PKing
You like working really hard to accomplish something extremely time-consuming
You like both PvE and PvP
You like a little danger in your life
You'll hate this game if...
You don't like treadmills
You absolutely must have a coherent gameworld storyline in order to enjoy the game
You don't like PvE at all
You don't like PvP at all
You can't stand the idea of losing exp or items, ever
You only have a very small amount of time to play
So essentially, you'll like this game if you're Korean or living out of your parents basement on their dime. It's nice to have this all spelled out for me. Thanks. I would like to add one item to the 'hate' list: You'll hate this game if you like content. |
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ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527
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Here's a link that was posted on the L2 boards somewhere, shows what you'll look like as you gain (levels and) gear. The drop-down field above the picture changes race/gender, and the 6 (non-bolded) links immediately above the armor icons change the armor type (cloth, light, and heavy armor). With the "mystery" of the gear revealed like that, I guess there are even less reasons to grind through the game, for me at least. |
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Malathor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 196
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You'll hate this game if you like content. Nonsense. The game has massive amounts of content. The thing is, however, that the game expects you to work for it. Probably based on the crazy idea that most of the people that actually play MMORPGs are achiever-types, and that "achievements" that are handed to players on a silver platter, aren't. Don't like that? Feel free to bring on the hate. They have no reason whatever to care. They already have a couple other games coming out this year to appeal to the purported western "playstyle". Meanwhile, L1 and L2 continue to pull in the kind of cash (fully convertable into good old U.S. dollars mind you) that their counterparts in the west can only dream about. <edit-typo> |
"Too much is always better than not enough." -Dobbs
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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Why exactly do you believe Lineage 2 lacks content? Are you prepared to back your statements up or do we not do that anymore?
I'll explain it quite simply. I don't care what content there is at endgame if the low and mid level sucks ass, which it seems to from *everything* I've seen. I catassed through almost 20 levels in 2 days just to see if the game took me anyplace interesting, unfortunately it did not. Short of the graphics, which are stellar - especially in motion - I just don't feel like cool guild warfare is worth 1-3 months of pure catassing. The Item system is pure old school rpg - i.e. You get a certain weapon, armor, etc. at this level and so on until you work your way up to the master level stuff - it's like a step above Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Also, as to the first big update. If devs can't release content until a huge patch, why release the game until it's ready? To give me a head start on my catassing? I'm sick of companies wanting to 'patch in fun.' It's gone a little too far. I was VERY excited about L2 after reading about guild warfare and whatnot. Then I got into the closed beta, and was like holy what in the hell. The guild leader has to slave away like an illegal immigrant in a sweatshop? Not for me. Not for the people I game with. I'm not saying a lot of people in America will or won't like it. I am however convinced this game is setup for the guy who can go play in a netcafe for 12 hours a day while eating ramen or kimchi while an IV drips caffiene into their veins. |
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Sloth
Guest
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I think thats what L2 is going for, the hardcore gamer market. Its got all the right PVP elements. I think alot of people will realize that XP loss isn't a big deal because Skill Points easily trump levels. However the XP loss is still a good method to curb zerging and actually make for some meaningful PVP.
I think the game has enough content to start. Certainly compared to EQ or DAOC it doesn't have the quest content, but its got plenty of equipment, levels, skills, and storyline content. The L2 GUI could use some major work. I'm disappointed in the character customization, but in the context of L2 its not a big factor.
I think L2 is the ultimate MMOG PVP game because its all about character development and items plus there is varying degrees of item loss and land ownership. Plus its allows for PVP freedom, but with consequences. Its a total PVP game but it doesn't degrade into a zerging deathmatch game. Obviously you'll have to invest the time to stick your flag in the top of the mountain, but then thats what separates MMOG PVP from Quake PVP.
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Numtini
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7675
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Again, comparing past games, even though Lineage was a success doesn't account for much. Since Star Wars Galaxies came out, I DEMAND customization to the extreme. I *liked* looking different than everyone else. I've yet to see ANYONE in CoH that looks anywhere near how I look. I like customization too, but defense of L2, SWG isn't planning to put 500+ people into single battles. Lineage 2 is planning for sieges that large. The low end game is dull. It's even duller if you're not on the main island. It seemed to pick up consistently though as you got more abilities and I never got to my first class split. If you get into a team, I found it was improved a lot, but it was sort of hard when only about 5% of us weren't Taiwanese so it didn't happen very often. Players killed it for me in any case. OK game. Nothing special. But I'd put the playerbase at the dead bottom of any online game I've ever played. I just have no interest in playing a game with the wildlife I saw in my short time. |
If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
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Arthur_Parker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5865
Internet Detective
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I don't honestly know how I will feel about Lineage 2 in a few weeks so I'm not going to say much more.
The equipment at higher levels is provided by a combination of rare item drops and dwarf crafters, to make crafted/quest items more interesting one proven method is to make normal equipment boring. I'm not saying that's good, I'm just saying it's a known method used by AC1 for example.
As to the patches, they update the game for free and it's been gold in Korea for some time, we are just catching up to them.
Also I think it's the first released game since UO that Richard Garriott has had some influence on. So it's not surprising it has links to the past, remember you could post a bounty on the head of a murderer in UO? It never worked because the murderer would just get a friend to kill him and collect the bounty if it was high enough, that has been replaced with item loss which should work slightly better.
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Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942
Muse.
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I'm playing it and rather enjoying it. The content is much like Lin1, at this point. Same areas, same mobs, somewhat the same sort of PvP, though a bit more involved. There is quite a lot of content and, every few months, there will be more content added via Chronicles. The one thing that annoys me the most about this gam is the amount of downtime when you solo. This virtually disappears when you group, however. Give me SWG's avatar customisation, SB's skills and character development, DnL's races (oh no! faries!) and weather system and Lin2's content and I'll never bother you here again... I'll be too busy playing my perfect game. Of course, the last few days this: http://www.clubrubika.com/random/NetCongAbleNo.htmlsums up what I've mostly seen of Lin2, but it appears this has been resolved... though the servers are still up and down. |
My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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ClumsyOaf
Guest
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But it offers nothing new at this point to the table.
How about the combination of a very poorly implemented notoriety system (you get flagged for attacking someone who is flagged), people who are entitled to kill certain mobs, and people who just can't help but attack anyone who is flagged. It's at least 5 years since noto-pking was this easy. What's new about a crappy noto system? As you said, that was done 5 years ago. ;) It is the combination that is new :) Getting (blues/"innocent") people to attack you could be difficult in UO - that's why people jumped in area spells and such instead. In L2 so far people attack each other over anything - "YOU STOLE MY ORC -_-KER!!1!!". The entitlement people have gotten used to from the pve games in a pvp game - I think it's funny. In particular since the notoriety system favors people who don't care if they get attacked. Going red at level 4 was kinda painful though :) The game itself though - I'm not impressed. It's bland, low on content (it's beta yadayada), and the combat system is rather one-dimensional. And while you gain levels fast, you seem to gain abilities rather slowly - but I haven't tested that much. |
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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The game itself though - I'm not impressed. It's bland, low on content (it's beta yadayada) This may be interpreted as nitpicking, but one of the reasons this game really turned me off is this really isn't a beta. This is the testing of an English-language patch and American servers. As far as I know this is exactly how the game was released in Korea. |
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ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527
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It's not even testing, really. It's more the fact that they decided to bring all their servers to the same level (ease of support? version control?), so they need to give NA time and incentives to level up fast to catch up.
My interest is purely in passing; I can't say I've played enough to draw any conclusion myself, but I'd be curious to know if bugs reported by the NA testers actually get fixed. I'm sure there have to be cases where NA players request something the Asian players may not care about (UI improvements? Boxes that actually fit the width of the English text?), and viceversa. And I'm curious to know if any such things actually get implemented/fixed.
Where the big money is would indicate "no", but hopefully I'm wrong.
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daveNYC
Terracotta Army
Posts: 722
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You'll hate this game if...
You don't like treadmills
You absolutely must have a coherent gameworld storyline in order to enjoy the game
You don't like PvE at all
You don't like PvP at all
You can't stand the idea of losing exp or items, ever
You only have a very small amount of time to play
Whaa? |
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Foix
Terracotta Army
Posts: 54
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Whaa? I think the idea is that if you have a profound animus against either PvP or PvE, you aren't going to like the game, because it combines both serious PvE grind and one of the more uncompromising PvP models to come along recently; you have to like both to some degree in order to like Lineage 2. I've had the beta client sitting on my machine for a while now, but haven't actually bothered to play as of yet. Anyone willing to answer a question? Somewhere along the line, I got the idea that characters of each class (or each race-class combination?) level-up exactly the same way. Is that true? If so, what distinguishes one character statistically from the next? Stat-enhancing gear? |
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Alluvian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1205
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In the early game the only thing that differentiates me is my name. Hell, about 1/4 of the humans out there have my exact same avatar, and I have pretty much maxxed out all the skills I can buy at level 9. I am a clone. At higher levels there are class splits (20 I think?) and maybe somewhere along that line people become different. I would assume at some point you have to pick which skills you want to increase because you don't have enough sp for all the lines. Right now there are so few lines that I can max all but one (dagger) and could max that one in no time flat if I wanted to.. Schild said: One more thing, who said you had to roleplay a hero? My character is a wonky looking german dude who fights with his fists and can hover. He looks more like someone straight out of the Kraftwerk era of German Music more than any sort of Marvel comic book hero. I agree, you can play megaman if you want to, heh. Ton of neat mechanical options. LOTS of non-spandex looks, but only those closely following the game or already in beta know about that. Looking at the box you just see spandex men and women with huge boobs. I fear the casual will look at it, snicker, and move along the shelf. |
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Arthur_Parker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5865
Internet Detective
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You can max all skill lines if you want, there is no limit to the amount of SP you can gain.
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Alluvian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1205
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You can max all skill lines if you want, there is no limit to the amount of SP you can gain. How many classes are there in the game then? Each race only STARTS with 2 options. And most races have the exact same two options that play exactly the same. Orc casters play different. |
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Sloth
Guest
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The game itself though - I'm not impressed. It's bland, low on content (it's beta yadayada) This may be interpreted as nitpicking, but one of the reasons this game really turned me off is this really isn't a beta. This is the testing of an English-language patch and American servers. As far as I know this is exactly how the game was released in Korea. I don't see why it matters if its not a traditional beta or not, the bottom line is you don't have to pay anything. There will probably be at least 1 new server upon release, for people who want to start on a new world. Besides, traditional betas haven't proven themselves to be all that useful anyway. |
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ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527
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what distinguishes one character statistically from the next? Stat-enhancing gear? Not even that. I got the impression that the gear is divided up into tiers, and you have exactly one choice per tier. Like, at level x, you're supposed to be wearing THIS, and it's the only choice for your class at that level. Unlike EQ where there were a bazillion of workable alternatives. I may be wrong, but that's the impression I got. If you have questions, actually, visit the official web site; they actually explain the classes up to level 40 pretty well. And the forums have some good info too, if you're willing to dig through the crap posts. No point re-posting all the info here. |
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kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113
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For lineage two most races start with two options. Each of those two options usually gets one or two options at the first break point at 20. Then most get two options from there at the second break point at 40.
From what I can see pretty much any body of the same class and race will pretty much be identical. Gear helps diversity a bit but from what I hear from open beta even gear is not that huge except maybe the best dwarf crafted stuff. Basically to see any real diversity you wait until you are level 40 or so. Note not all races have that kind of variety take dwarves.
Dwarfs start as dwarven fighter at 20 they get to choose artisan or scavenger type each of those only has one option at 40. So basically if you are a dwarf or see a dwarf at x level you will pretty much know they are one of two things with one of two ability types.
As far as city of heros costumn options it is huge. The game actually has many truly awsome looking power armor/robot mechanical looks. Also on an interesting note I see much fewer women in spandex than I would have ever expected. I see more bare chested/shorts wearing men than I do bikini women. In my time in game I have never yet seen anybody who looks even similar to my main which is impressive. You can go medieval armor looking to gangster look to high tech to pulp comic looks to vampirella looks and any combination in between.
Kaid
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Alluvian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1205
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Yeah, and it won't be long before you can do the particle effect clothing for things like the human torch.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42629
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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My review of the Lineage 2 open beta is on the front page.
Fanbois should take valium before reading it.
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Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942
Muse.
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I've been in the beta for a while, so the first thing I do is run out of town to level. Playing a dwarf is a bit different. It's much quieter, even near town, and there are fewer retards running around. Dwarf is difficult to level and skills are very expensive... level 1 skills start at 320 sps instead of the 60 or so for the rest of the races. For all the places that are mobbed with the quest creatures, there are other places further out of town that have the same mobs. Thank God... I'd go mad playing close to towns.
Once you leave the confines of your racial area and venture into the world, the world becomes more interesting. It just seems to take forever to get to that point. It's not the grind that I mind so much... there is enough mob diversity, even at early levels, to stay mildly entertained. It's the areas, at least early on, where you fight. As you run along the roads, you'll see hillsides and valleys filled with various sorts of monsters. There are usually 3 or 4 different types... some aggro, some BAF, some both. You keep running, crossing creeks and bridges, and the mobs change... but the scenery doesn't. The only answer is to catass your way through these levels and get out of your racial area as soon as possible... then the world is a bit more interesting.
The chat bugs me, too. There is no global chat channel and the orange chat you see is actually 'shout'. Believe it or not, you are only seeing the endless moronic wibbling of people in and around your area. If I make it to the mainland again in this game, I'll be turning the 'shout' channel off.
I'm not thrilled to death with this game, though I don't dislike it It's the only beta I'm playing right now (can't seem to wrap my head around Ryzom and Wish) and it's easy. It takes about 5 minutes to work everything out... mostly because there is nothing to do but fight. You kill mobs, you kill players, quests consist of killing more mobs. PvP is by far this games only saving grace... sieging looks to be a bit of good fun. I don't know if I'll make it that far, though... it depends on when DnL or RoT or Darkfall or SOMETHING with a bit more meat on it's bones invites me to beta or is released.
There will be a lot more features and, from what I understand, more character customisations when Chronicle 1 which goes live at launch. Will I be leveling up a new character so I can look different? Fat Chance. I probably won't bother making any other characters... the first 20 levels of this game are too painful for that.
Good write up, Haemish. Nothing is more fun than reading one of your reviews on a game I'm actually playing. I looked quite silly sitting here all by myself, nodding my head and laughing like a nutter.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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