Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Morfiend]

I really like CO, in concept. They have some amazing ideas, that actually worked. The UI and interface where super customizable, to the point you could actually make the game simulate a FPS. But all the pieces just didn't quite fit to make a compelling game. Also, their super expensive (non-existant at launch) respec system combined with broken or undocumented powers made character concepts sort of a shot in the dark.

[Nevermore]

Is it just me or does this seem less like 'free to play' and more like a glorified trial?

[Ginaz]

Is it just me or does this seem less like 'free to play' and more like a glorified trial?

When is it not like this for any f2p mmo?

[UnSub]

Fun fact: if you ever had a ChampO account, you could have played for free anyway, but were restricted to the zone your paid account expired in.

I'm not surprised and thinks this gives ChampO some chance of growing the player base. It's also a way of testing this thing out for Cryptic before Neverwinter launches.

[Ratman_tf]

Is it just me or does this seem less like 'free to play' and more like a glorified trial?

 

[Kageru]

Forum users complaining about lag? I know their server code handles it very badly from beta experiences... but with fewer users and all this time live I really am surprised they're having server lag issues. I guess they might have downgraded the hardware as a cost saving measure in which case it means the money coming in from CO must be pretty marginal. Which is of course supported by this latest initiative.

[koro]

Apparently they mostly fixed the lag last night after the F2P announcement, but aside from a small launcher announcement put up right after the F2P thing they never once addressed it on the forums in the week of its existence. I guess they were on some posting blackout?

According to my friend who plays, it was really horrible rubberbanding and server disconnects in Millennium City, extending to the other zones fairly frequently. Coincided exactly with the latest content patch.

[Pendan]

Fun fact: if you ever had a ChampO account, you could have played for free anyway, but were restricted to the zone your paid account expired in.

You were also set to level 15 until subscribed again. Being restricted to zone also meant you could not even enter the Power House. Still MC had level 15 repeatable content and banks so was a good zone to have characters in when unsubscribed.

F2P is a downer for me as a person who subscribed briefly in the past. Can't play my existing characters in FtP an no more free weekends (or anniversary week) to play those characters either I expect.

[Malakili]

Not that anyone is interested in actually buying this, but i feel like I couldn't help but post this here:
Lifetime is back!
http://www.champions-online.com/lifetime

 

[Count Nerfedalot]

Am I the only one who thinks that buying a lifetime subscription to a Cryptic title is rather like buying a lifetime subscription to Duke Nukem Forever?  Sure you get some minor improvements to the experience along the way, but how long after paying for it are you willing to wait to actually get a whole game?

[Shatter]

Not that anyone is interested in actually buying this, but i feel like I couldn't help but post this here:
Lifetime is back!
http://www.champions-online.com/lifetime

 

$300....LOLOLOLOLOL

[UnSub]

There's been demand for the return of the lifetime sub on the forums. May as well give the people what they want.

Atari's 6 month financials are out. They keep making a loss, but not as bad a loss as they have previously. Atari is increasingly seeing a revenue stream through online (Cryptic mainly) that was around US$17m; if we assume that the entire 6 month increase in this area was due to Cryptic, it's something like US$15m in revenue from Cryptic. I don't think this includes the launch of STO, which means that sub revenue is probably a solid component of that return, but Atari's accounting cycle throws me.

[ghost]

Yeah, but $299 is batshit crazy for this game.  It's maybe worth $150.  Maybe. 

[UnSub]

Yeah, but $299 is batshit crazy for this game.  It's maybe worth $150.  Maybe. 

Agreed. 10 months seems more reasonable than 20 months sub-equivalent.

That said, calling it a 'lifetime' sub loads up expectations of length of existence, so Cryptic is no doubt showing its renewed confidence in ChampO. 

[Shatter]

Thats what I find funny about it.  Not that charging $300 for a lifetime sub in some games is a good idea but not THIS game from THIS company and especially after the games been out for > 1 year with the condition it launched in, etc.  Im sure its much better today but they have permanent bruises now from this and STO that wont heal up.  They clearly are unwilling to bite the bullet even a little to give people a good deal, they are still far-reaching for the most cash they can.  I would agree that lifetime for $150 would probably get a good chunk of people to sign up but $300(25 months) *boggle*.  Cant help but feel that they are looking down the road into 2011/2012 and seeing the number of high profile titles coming out one of which is another super hero MMO and trying to get cash now cause they will have a hard time getting cash later. 

[Sky]

The idea of a $150 lifetime sub when CO launched may have interested me. Now...that's sillycrazynuts.

[Malakili]

Thats what I find funny about it.  Not that charging $300 for a lifetime sub in some games is a good idea but not THIS game from THIS company and especially after the games been out for > 1 year with the condition it launched in, etc.  Im sure its much better today but they have permanent bruises now from this and STO that wont heal up.  They clearly are unwilling to bite the bullet even a little to give people a good deal, they are still far-reaching for the most cash they can.  I would agree that lifetime for $150 would probably get a good chunk of people to sign up but $300(25 months) *boggle*.  Cant help but feel that they are looking down the road into 2011/2012 and seeing the number of high profile titles coming out one of which is another super hero MMO and trying to get cash now cause they will have a hard time getting cash later. 

To be fair to them, quite a lot of people on the forums appear to have been asking for it to be offered again, and I suspect the higher price is so that people who bought it at launch didn't feel like they got hosed for buying it then rather than rewarded for "faith" in the game or whatever.

Granted, 300 is just still an insane price for this.

[ghost]

I see $150 as being a reasonable price for those that are overly enamored by this game.  As with Sky, it's too much for me, but for someone that truly loves the game that is a reasonable price.  $299 should put the corporate bigs of Cryptic in prison.

[Malakili]

Conveniently timed for DCUO, looks like CO is going f2p on the 25th.

I'll give it a whirl again, this time the price is right.

I checked out their website and found this video that really methodically goes over all the stuff they've changed and added since release http://champions-online.com/videos  (click on  System Shock)

[Typhon]

I think you probably know this already but the f2p experience isn't the same as the regular experience because you are shoehorned into specific builds.  My guess is that this isn't a huge issue and that they are doing it more to guide newbies into a good/decent build rather than allows newbies to gimp themselves (said newbies possibly liking the game so much that they then want to subscribe).

[ghost]

Why does this feel so very planned?

[statisticalfool]

F2P live. Anybody? Anybody at all?

*crickets*

[Malakili]

F2P live. Anybody? Anybody at all?

*crickets*

I'm going to poke around tomorrow, possibly late tonight if I have the energy.  I'll post some reactions.

[Sky]

I liked CO quite a bit, so I'm tempted. Although like most f2p, it looks like a giant pile of why bother.

[Tannhauser]

I'm interested in your reaction as well.  Would especially like info on the pre-builds. 

[UnSub]

Logged in (and saw Malakili come and go).

Servers are pretty busy with the main point of complaint I've seen was the lack of inventory space on the free accounts.

It's much, much better than launch and there has been a lot of clean-up, but the core problem that the game plays better on a controller than KB/M remains. I like ChampO as a casual game, but often feel I need a third hand to move and activate my powers and steer at the same time. I'll try plugging in my Xbox controller again, but last time it didn't work.

[Malakili]

Alright, I played for about an hour or two, so I'll give me quick response here, take for whatever an hour of play is worth, I'm going to do this a bit narrative-like.


So, the game feels a lot more polished (read: finished, compared to launch at least) right away.  Obviously there has been a lot of development time since then, but just from a UI standpoint everything seems a bit better put together.  Not the hugest deal in the end, but it definitely made a decent first impression on me from that front.  So, if you are a free to play player, you basically have to choose of the available archetypes.  There are currently 2 extra archetypes you can purchase at the c-store to add to your options (more on the c-store later).  They feel limiting compared to the free form type, but thats part of the point.  I chose "The Solider", which is based around the munitions power set, basically, guns guns guns.   You still get a huge load of costume options, and the costume creator is as good as ever.

The tutorial is more informative than before and does a better job of teaching you the game. A lot of the "optional" stuff from before is now made really obvious to you, just mechanics wise across the board.  Its effectively the same tutorial though, with just a bit better thought put into it.  You can also skip the tutorial once you've done it once, which is nice (just starts you off at level 5).  After the tutorial I trained up in the power house.  Since you can't choose your powers as an archetype, you just go to the trainer and they give you your next power.   You do still get your advantage points to spend as you like though, so there is room for customization within the archetype to a degree.  You can also choose your travel power still.  I think some of them are unavailable to free players, but they are purchasable at the store if you really want them.  I chose super jump.  

The post tutorial experience is WAY better than I remember.  Rather than shoving you off to either Canada or the Desert, you start right away in Millennium City, complete with an in-engine cutscene with a way over-acted voiceover.  You get a quest that takes you around the Ren Center and shows you where all the important buildings are (crafting people, bank, etc).  You then get sent to west side in the city, which has been totally revamped to be level 8-something and the flow of the area is totally changed.   At this point I really only had 3 abilities still, my energy builder, which was a slow firing pistol that did decent damage, an assault rifle that I could hold down and do a lot of single target damage, and a submachine gun burst, that did frontal cone AoE.   I didn't really have any problems killing anything, and it felt pretty fun.  The combat is basically the same as its ever been, though the UI does feel a little more responsive than I remember.  

My archetype "The Soldier" is designed for DPS, these archetypes are all designed with a group role in mind, but also to be able to solo from what I understand.   The downside is obviously lack of customization compared to free form, but the upside is that I didn't have to worry about accidentally gimping myself for choosing a poor set of powers, or powers in a bad order.  I'll have to see if that holds up past level 10.  For what its worth from a "feel" point of view, the fact that so many people are around with only 8 archetypes didn't feel so bad.  The huge variety of costumes still made people feel different enough from my standpoint that it didn't feel like every fire guy running around was the same, even those they were shooting the same fire abilities.  Maybe a small point, but one of my worries with archetypes would be that everyone feels basically the same.  Granted, it still not as good as having the option to free form, but it didn't feel as bad from that standpoint as I had expected it to.  Here is a list of free to play archetypes: http://www.champions-online.com/node/595112  There are two more you can buy access to that aren't listed there.

The C-store has obviously been totally revamped and loads of stuff added.  My impressions of the c-store are not all that great from browsing through it.  They've got your standard free to play fair of health potions, mana potions, etc.  There are some exp boosting devices with a time limit, group buffs, and so forth.  There are some complete novelty items (which are actually kind of silly, but fun, I saw some people using them already).  For instance, there is a wearwolf transformation device that makes you into a wearwolf (complete with a wearwolf set of powers to use in that form), there is a device that makes you really big, or really small (a device for each).  Some other total novelty stuff.  There are a lot of costume sets you can buy as well.  If I was going to buy anything ever, it would be costumes I imagine.  You can also buy the adventure packs they have released since the game came out.  There are also a host of services you can buy - like a token that lets you rename your character, a retcon token (which I don't know how that works for an archetype character, maybe lets you choose a different archetype?) .  The prices struck me as overly expensive, but that happens ever time I look at prices at a F2P store.  The prices seem marginally higher on the items in the pre-F2P item store, I seem to remember costumes being 280 a pop (read: $3.50), and now they are about 4 bucks or more.  Services can be 10 bucks.  The consumables seemed expensive, but I guess were probably only like 25 cents per "use" for most potions, which is probably typical of F2P games.  Here is a link to the new c-store https://www.champions-online.com/store  (it can also be accessed in game)

The kicker is, you can still subscribe for 15 bucks a month.  That gets you access to a goodly amount of the items sold on the c-store as part of the subscription (access to the adventure packs, many of the costumes, etc), and an additional 400 Atari points to spend at the shop per month (5 bucks worth).  It also gets you the ability to make free form charaters, which is the biggest selling point.  All this leads me to believe that the free to play way of playing isn't really meant to be viable or intended long term.  I really think their intent even with "f2p" is to get people to subscribe.  I can't imagine myself being invested in the game enough to want to buy things at the store for the prices they are charging but not willing to put in the extra 5 bucks or so amonth and just go for the gold subscription plan.  So, that part leaves a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, but on the other side of things, I might be over reacting to the f2p model in general, because I generally don't like it too much, so take all that with my personal bias in mind.

In summary, the game content I played was generally more polished and even when basically the same quests, organized and presented in a better manner.   The combat mechanics weren't too different if different at all from what I remember, but I always thought they were more or less fine to begin with.   The UI is much improved all around.  The C-Store bothered me, but I didn't feel like I  *had* to buy anything to function either.  But is it fun?  Yes, I'd say I had quite a bit of fun as my soldier beating the crap out of bad guys and bounding around the city.  The combat is a little more traditionally MMO than DCUO(from what I can tell from DCUO videos, I haven't played it myself), but it has a lot more flexible controls and you can set it up to play with a crosshair/action style and even use an xbox controller if you want to (I used mouse and keyboard), so you can get a more fine tuned experience depending on how much of that "action oriented" feel you want.

Bottom Line:  If you liked CO at all but couldn't look past its faults, I'd suggest giving it a go again.  If you absolutely hated the game the first time around, the core mechanics are more or less intact and you won't lthem more now than you did before.  But if you were hoping for a more polished CO, it does seem to be that.

[rk47]

$300.. the amount of Steam sales and regular purchases I could pick over a year is better than one MMO.

[raydeen]

I installed it last night and rolled up a Mind hero. It still feels like a poor man's CoX but for the lack of a sub fee, It's ok I guess. I did find by accident that apparently there is no cooldown on my powers and that I could just spam the one button and it was easy mode ranged and up close kills. Sucks the mana down quick but makes the killing even quicker which is a good thing since I'm pretty squishy.

[5150]

F2P live. Anybody? Anybody at all?

*crickets*

I had the free trial already downloaded in Steam* but never got around to playing it before F2P

Went to try it last night and immediately had to download a 1.5GB patch which I left running over night

A friend who tried downloading it from the web site overnight was still sat at 3% this morning


*interestingly you do not appear to be able to either buy or download the trial from Steam now, the Steam page just displays the F2P website

[Bandit]

I downloaded the update without issue last night and just took a quick peek at the archetypes and some of the patch notes.  I played the shit out of CO up until the release of Serpent Lantern.  I loved the gameplay, but the content just wasn't there.  Lack of content was made up with soul-sucking grinds for medicore rewards (craftable travel powers).  I do have a lifetime (groan), so the archetypes really don't interest me - aside from archetype only PvP.  PvP in CO was pretty fun, except for 90% of people had Teleport, chainsaw and chest beam at the time.

If you haven't played before, I would recommend checking out Zombie Apocalypse PvP, Vibora Bay (content much better than rest of game at the time, I think it starts at level 30?), and Lemuria (just from an aesthetic point-of-view), and the Nemesis Lair (fun short group content where you fight everyone's nemesis).

The werewolf device and shrink/grow devices do interest me, as you could flesh-out a few more concepts in detail.

 I fully plan to take another character to 40 when I finish up another Mass Effect 2 run, which is most likely this weekend.

[Hawkbit]

I dl last night no issues.  ~4gig install, took maybe 4 hours total because it was fluctuating quite a bit.  

Installed, logged in and remembered why I didn't like this in beta.  It's great that it's free, but... unfun.  

[Morfiend]

If only we could somehow combine COs width of powers and movement abilities with DCUOs combat and gameplay. Would be a really fun superhero game.

[Malakili]

If only we could somehow combine COs width of powers and movement abilities with DCUOs combat and gameplay. Would be a really fun superhero game.

You you tried customizing the controls in CO?

Edit: I found this tutorial, its very old, but I think still applicable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Oe3KezBUU  combine it with using an xbox controller if you like.

[Ratman_tf]

After playing with access to all the powers and costumes, the free version sounds like CO without the char generation, and that's like half the game to me.

Thinking of resubbing this month, to see where the game is at and dink around with my chars some.