Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Hawkbit]

Part of the problem on the models is that the cel shading black outlines bring a bit of detail to them.  The art is interesting in the fact that it looks like crap no matter how it's set.  I keep rearranging settings and thinking "Nope, that's not right either".

You'd think with the graphics not looking that great I'd be able to play on something other than the very lowest settings. I don't understand this game.

This.

[Typhon]

I didn't mean to make another throwaway but couldn't help myself. Colors are a little odd on the first one courtesy of auto-white-balance.
I'm not feeling the character creator hate so far.

lol, that's awesome!  I'd be laughing the whole time playing that.  What's his name?  Does he have a bad attitude?

[Bzalthek]

God this MMO is the equivalent of a direct-to-dvd movie.

Actually, probably more like VHS or Betamax.

[kildorn]

See, the gameplay can be kind of fun. Which is depressing, because even if I got over the graphics and enjoyed the gameplay: there's no content. The zones are tiny. There aren't many of them. You seem to revisit content constantly while you level and just play in a tiny section (with travel powers as is, think "smaller than a good FPS map" small)

CoX got away with small-ish zones, high speed travel and a lot more zones at release because half the shit you do is instanced. Here? It's three room romps of instances, with maybe three that I've been able to play in levels 1-15.

Seriously, they halfassed the art assets, didn't world build much, and the whole thing feels like a tech demo of a game that might be awesome, if given two years of development time and funding. But this is your gold master? Maybe if it's your thesis or some shit, but I don't think this flies as a release product.

[Sky]

CoH Cosmic Anomaly:


CO Cosmic Anomaly:


I didn't see the starburst costume on my first run through chargen, blah. Also forgot he wore the eye thingies, I was just going from memory. Cosmo was an energy blaster, so I was kind of puzzled trying to find an analog. Telekinesis sounded close, but then I have this sword. Blah, going to have to reroll him. As soon as I got in the tutorial and saw the sword I kind of lost interest because it was late and I didn't feel like tackling the chargen again.

I like the graphics of it, but they run like shit on an 8800gtx at 1280x720. I set it to high (100% on the sliders, which was low for some), shadows medium, 4xaa. This is the first title to run this poorly on my machine. Should be running much better, especially with 30 people in the tutorial zone. I'll probably turn bloom down, but for the most part I found the graphics to be decent enough.

For the morons saying it's 1995 bad. Shut up.

[tmp]

Gave it a try yesterday. Didn't have problems with patching, it was very slow but worked without any restart or having to play around with files. Though the patcher does some dumb things as far as progress feedback goes ... like showing it has 3.5gb of data on to patch while the actual download is just 300 mb in size, and putting that 3.5gb number first while never listing the size of download until fully done, thus creating some completely wrong impressions. "Cryptic", eh.

* character creation seems overall okay, though the face sliders indeed don't seem to be doing anything really useful. It's surprising there's no apparent way to set your own colours and so everyone gets forced into the same gaudy set that always makes me think of programmer art. The oversaturated colour set clashes really bad with the graphics style they chose, but more on that later. The way character creator arbitrarily enables/disables gear slots depending what category you select (and forgets some choices you made for the slots which get disabled) can get irritating after a while too.

* first (but lasting) impression: game feels stiff. This is mostly down to movement animations, and the way characters are paused mid-frame whenever they hit an obstacle (and there's obstacles to hit all over the place) and hang there in poses that imply moving when they're actually stuck in place.

* the systems they utilize (character attributes, skills, equipment, crafting) come across very convoluted and this is made much, much worse by godawful way these things are documented in tooltips and such. Somehow they manage to nearly always either tell the stuff you don't need to know while not telling the things which actually help, or tell you the stuff you want to know exactly once ever, or stick it in some dark corner of an obscure UI panel, or never tell you things at all.

* graphics style is an odd choice. They went for stock render with some gloss/specular/reflection mapping thrown in but it sticks out like sore thumb when combined with simple shapes and textures they use, and the hideous bump maps they allow to put on people don't help either. Overall it feels very much like EQ 2 v.2.0, with expectation just the tech alone will cure the problem of things looking bad, without understanding that the way this tech is used contributes to the very problem rather than helps. Not saying they should've straight rip off Valve as the way to go but the amount of thought Valve puts into their lighting models and overall approach to stuff they build is something worth copying, imo.

oh and performance is for some reason hideous. When on the same hardware Aion manages to run in the same resolutions and maxed out settings at 60-100 fps and this thing manages to pull off 20 fps at best for me, and that's after turning off ambient occlusion along with few other potential suspects... welp.

* i get the idea everyone wants to be a hero and how it's supposedly making game more fun, but there's no place where it feels more dumb than a superhero MMO. It's really hard not to roll my eyes when every character i speak to turns out to be another little sycophant who makes sure to make it known i'm his favourite, when we both know perfectly well he's been telling it to everyone who right-clicked him all day long. Whore.

"if everyone is super then no one is".

at least their rip-off from WAR open quests also rips off the part where at the end they show who did the most. Though hopefully minus the tie breaker code.

* some things and decisions they made seem plain asinine and don't help the game at all. Like being able to only progress in single sub-field of single crafting area and losing all your progress if you ever want to switch... despite your character can just fine mix-and-use skills from all these areas. Or the way you are allowed to undo your choices of powers and perks but only by removing them one by one in the very order you made them. Want to change that power you picked 10 choices ago? Great, just backtrack 10 steps, change it to what you want now then redo the 10 choices you made afterwards. Or how they give command to put on different outfits on your character even in the contextual menu, but there's no apparent way to create more than single outfit in the Tailor interface or any explanation concerning that, even in the Tailor's own dialog window. Minor, irritating bits that keep piling on the longer you play.

tl;dr: clunky.

[kildorn]

Oh, I was also amused that for my ego powers, my primary stat increases the strength of crits.

But I had a -5% chance to crit because nothing I'd been told to get stat wise would ever increase my crit rate.

I had other powers where suddenly my damage would scale off End instead of Ego and such stat bullshittery that seemed completely pointless and convoluted.

[Malakili]

I had other powers where suddenly my damage would scale off End instead of Ego and such stat bullshittery that seemed completely pointless and convoluted.

Superstats.

[tmp]

Oh, I was also amused that for my ego powers, my primary stat increases the strength of crits.

But I had a -5% chance to crit because nothing I'd been told to get stat wise would ever increase my crit rate.

From what i managed to figure out, chance to crit anything is driven by Dexterity. But that -5% thing reminds me of another bit that seems like wrong way to go about things given the superhero theme -- the way your character actually gets (relatively) worse as they level up, because their stats need to match numbers that increase as they level up just to stay on the same level percentage-wise...

[Draegan]

Turn off outlining and that goddamn bloom and your opinion of the game will go up 100%.  I thought I had accidentally clicked on "miniature sun in chest cavity" in the Char. Creator when I got in-game.

I will give this game another shot just because of this.

[kaid]

That would be one of my biggest complaints in the game is the powers can be pretty complex and the information you get in game for some of them is not terrifically clear about explaining them and the stat system and how it feeds into and effects powers are complex and not well explained. It may be a matter of not yet having the manual to RTFM yet.

Graphic wise its fine to me although I turned off the outlining and turned the bloom down. The default bloom level is freaking silly.

I was a bit disapointed with my gadgeteer until I found my chainsaw power MUAHAHAHAHAH that is pretty amusing but my character I thought would be more of a blaster is now way more effective in melee range.

[Signe]

Yes, I forgot to mention the bloom.  I maxed out nearly everything but I turned bloom almost all the way down and turned off the outline and it looks okay to me.  To be honest, I don't think I've ever played an MMO without having to fiddle with the graphic settings.

[Hawkbit]

I like the graphics of it, but they run like shit on an 8800gtx at 1280x720. I set it to high (100% on the sliders, which was low for some), shadows medium, 4xaa. This is the first title to run this poorly on my machine. Should be running much better, especially with 30 people in the tutorial zone. I'll probably turn bloom down, but for the most part I found the graphics to be decent enough.

Good to see someone else having the same experience with that card.  This really has been the first game that I can't run reliably in two years.  Go figure a cartoon game put my card to bed. 

[Murgos]

I'll try it without bloom and outlining but at the moment I feel like it's graphically worse than CoH.  The game play, at the tutorial level, feels identical to me as well, certainly not significantly different.  Also, I'm not a fan of the pop-up box graphic or the font used in it or the way it presents quests and information.  It felt hard to read and confusing when there was only a short paragraph with a small, three item bulleted list.

The game environment itself felt lacking, the back grounds looked washed out and muddy, it's not good when granite looks like clay, the cop cars look like they were made with play-doh, the police barricades were made with Papier-mâché.

[Hayduke]

I wouldn't have so much problem with the graphics if they didn't seem so uneven.  It's jarring that there's always a few things on screen that just don't fit, like they didn't finish loading or something they're so bad.  And yeah it's damn hard to make a good character unless you go for cyborgs or furries.  Plus it'd be kind of nice if they were more descriptive about the powersets on character creation.

[Modern Angel]

I dunno. I've made some good looking non-robot/furry/demon toons. The Red Scare and Mister Magic.

I can see this being a bit of fun with a group. I won't have a group so it won't be as fun.

[Cadaverine]

The graphics are way better than what they looked like when I first got into the CB.  The game feels a bit more fun now as well.  Still have no clue what the interaction between stats and powers is, though.  That would be my biggest gripe so far, being in the dark about a lot of the game.  Like when I tried playing around with crafting for the first time last night, the info available on Research didn't mention that you needed to use a workbench, so I just opened up the menu, and clicked on R&D, and spent 5 minutes or more putzing around trying to figure out what the hell I was doing wrong, until I noticed the option to use the workbench on the screen. 

I am still tempted to pick the game up, though, even if only to play Barbie dress up with the chargen.

[Glazius]

I just can't play CoH anymore because I've seen everything and know everything that's going to happen.

Is that from a power perspective or from a story perspective?

[Signe]

I like the graphics of it, but they run like shit on an 8800gtx at 1280x720. I set it to high (100% on the sliders, which was low for some), shadows medium, 4xaa. This is the first title to run this poorly on my machine. Should be running much better, especially with 30 people in the tutorial zone. I'll probably turn bloom down, but for the most part I found the graphics to be decent enough.

Good to see someone else having the same experience with that card.  This really has been the first game that I can't run reliably in two years.  Go figure a cartoon game put my card to bed. 

I'm using an 8800 GT at 1280x1074, no outline and bloom low, everything else high, and it's running okay so far.  It staggers a little once in a while.  I'm sure I'll have some sort of weirdo specific to only me problem at some point.  I almost always do.

I just can't play CoH anymore because I've seen everything and know everything that's going to happen.

Is that from a power perspective or from a story perspective?

I don't know.  I'm still very fond of the game but I just have no motivation to play anymore.   

[rattran]

I have to say, Champions Online has the fastest and best uninstall ever. A+ on that feature, it's my favorite of the whole game.

[HaemishM]

Make sure it deletes the folder where the game downloaded. I think I had to manually do that when I uninstalled last week.

[Ghambit]

I like the graphics of it, but they run like shit on an 8800gtx at 1280x720. I set it to high (100% on the sliders, which was low for some), shadows medium, 4xaa. This is the first title to run this poorly on my machine. Should be running much better, especially with 30 people in the tutorial zone. I'll probably turn bloom down, but for the most part I found the graphics to be decent enough.

Good to see someone else having the same experience with that card.  This really has been the first game that I can't run reliably in two years.  Go figure a cartoon game put my card to bed. 

I'm using an 8800 GT at 1280x1074, no outline and bloom low, everything else high, and it's running okay so far.  It staggers a little once in a while.  I'm sure I'll have some sort of weirdo specific to only me problem at some point.  I almost always do.

I just can't play CoH anymore because I've seen everything and know everything that's going to happen.

Is that from a power perspective or from a story perspective?

I don't know.  I'm still very fond of the game but I just have no motivation to play anymore.   

I have the 8800GTX and I've found it actually runs BETTER when the settings are higher (same happened with AoC).  I'm on the no cell-shading/bloom bandwagon though.  It's a much better game with that stuff turned off.

Anyways, so far my experience in the beta has shown me that much of the fun is determinant on the type of hero you play and how you build him/her.  I'll bring up AoC again to illustrate the point:  If you play Conq., the game is a shitton of fun.  If you just play Tempest, it's a boring spamfest and you're squishy to boot - until you get to endgame and stat min-maxing dmg.

In ChampO, I made a Sho'Nuff Martial Artist dex/ego build... high crits, etc.  He was just boring to play and didnt mow through minions like he should've.  Spam punch, spam kick... and that's it.
Then I made a rendition of The Maxx and went pure STR/CON with claws, bashing, and a penchant for hopping like a bunny.  Instant fun.  I pick up large chunks of shyt and throw them and can bitch-slap 5 enemies into the air.  His ranged charge is also pretty sweet.  He's just overall a more entertaining build and utilizes more of what the game has to offer.

And that's where the failure in implementation is imo.  Certain builds just dont play right and arent fun.  People that dont have patience for experimentation will put the game down sooner than later unfortunately.  So, for me, this beta time is spent fooling with builds until I find the sweet spot.

[Sky]

If you play Conq., the game is a shitton of fun. 

So, for me, this beta time is spent fooling with builds until I find the sweet spot.

Yeah, I got lucky rolling a Conq out of the gate. Lots of fun.

I also plan on trying a few powersets, though if it's anything like CoH, the real feel of the set doesn't come out for a looong time. I never really got to my blaster's full powerset, and my mastermind was just opening up.

[Ghambit]

Really, I dont see what all the negativity about the game itself is.  It's a very flexible online supers-creator... does its job, for the time-being.  (fun or not)  If it entertains me more than Spore, it's a win. 
It shouldnt be priced like a traditional wow-like MMO though.  If they do that, I doubt I'll play it past 1 month unless endgame is god's gift.

[Tmon]

Really, I dont see what all the negativity about the game itself is.  It's a very flexible online supers-creator... does its job, for the time-being.  (fun or not)  If it entertains me more than Spore, it's a win. 
It shouldnt be priced like a traditional wow-like MMO though.  If they do that, I doubt I'll play it past 1 month unless endgame is god's gift.

$14.95 a month, is what they told me at the demo booth.

[HaemishM]

Really, I dont see what all the negativity about the game itself is.

It isn't interesting enough to be negative about. It's just meh. Creating a character gets me excited to play and then when I play, I'm ready to log off and never come back after 30 minutes. That's not worth 1 month of subscription, much less a full box price.

[Lantyssa]

Really, I dont see what all the negativity about the game itself is.

It's Ugly by default.  It's character creator is terrible, when it should have put the system it's copying to shame.  It's buggy.  It's linear.  It's uninspired.

It has a few good points, but the rest of it is so 'meh' that they're not worth anything except noting to crib for the next game.

(And if you're okay with this game, I don't see how you can possibly rag on Jumpgate again...)

[01101010]

Lucky my disdain for fileplanet still is strong or else I'd be forced to give a go with this beta.

[Malakili]

[
It's Ugly by default.  It's character creator is terrible, when it should have put the system it's copying to shame.  It's buggy.  It's linear.  It's uninspired.

It has a few good points, but the rest of it is so 'meh' that they're not worth anything except noting to crib for the next game.

(And if you're okay with this game, I don't see how you can possibly rag on Jumpgate again...)

1) I don't find it ugly.  Its not the prettiest game I've seen, but I think it does what it is trying for decently.
2) I like the character creator, what specifically is so bad about it?
3) It is a little buggy, I'll admit, but nothing show stopping for me so far.
4) The beginning is definitely linear, it gets less so later on.
5) Uninspired in what sense?  It seems like it was inspired by comic books, and delivers on that.

I mean, I can see why people wouldn't like this game.  It definitely has a target audience, and it probably isn't going to win huge amounts of players over that aren't already interested in a super hero MMO, but to me its definitely fun to play.

[ezrast]

I'll agree that the game is fairly inoffensive, but it still doesn't offer me any reason not to resub to CoH and spend the box cost on Going Rogue. The only thing that might make ChampO worthwhile is the scenario PvP, depending on how that pans out at higher levels. Has anyone spent much time with PvP? My early impressions suggest that healing in scenarios is balls - the game doesn't auto-team you so you don't get unit frames for your side. I'll keep trying though.

[Jimbo]

I hope they fixed the power sets because it was so crazy on balance that if you picked one of the sets that were decent you couldn't get very far without dieing a lot to the mobs.  Hell the trash mobs would kill you.  But then again, there were a bunch of vocal people that when I posted what was happening said I needed to switch my powers and make the game trivial...  Of course I had no clue on what powers were uber (like fire and power armor) or that a couple of defense powers could make the game easy (but the game doesn't explain that), or that block somehow made the game easy (okay that never made sense as I was blocking and still getting killed).

Pro's:
1.  Neat costumes, great fun to play action figure dress up.
2.  A ton of powers and the ability to make them look cool (well sort of, I couldn't get the graphic swap to work right sometimes).

Con's:
1. Documentation.  I have no clue except on the basic of stuff on how it works or what you need to get around.
2. the grind!  Jesus H. Fucking Christ, I swear Jack wants us to all play slow leveling games, fuck him.
3.  Dieing to a trivial mob.  WTF is that bullshit!  And unlike AC you get no exp for fighting them back.
4.  The range mobs argo you, so unless you are flying and way up there they argo and come kill you.  Sucks if you have a walking/land travel power.
5.  Having forced grouping to complete missions unless you have picked the right powers to let you solo your missions.  I'm talking regular missions, not the hazard missions.

Basically it is a bad mix of City of X (neat costumes), tried to take some of Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and added the grind (with a bonus for some of forced grouping).  They just didn't get it right.

[Kageru]

On all the powers descriptions there's a line at the bottom that says "advanced info" or something similar. If you click on that you'll see a slightly improved version of the information we had during beta. You'll generally also see why a lot of people couldn't bug a power because it was too hard to figure out what it was meant to be doing.

[Tannhauser]

Installing the client crashed my laptop, can't even enter safe mode. I fucked up.

[UnSub]

Ironically ChampO faces both the issues of 'forced grouping' and 'no reason to team' depending on your build.

I love the classless character building system but there are huge power gaps between optimal builds and 'gimped' builds.

[Trippy]

Ironically ChampO faces both the issues of 'forced grouping' and 'no reason to team' depending on your build.

I love the classless character building system but there are huge power gaps between optimal builds and 'gimped' builds.

It's deja vu all over again

Context: Jack Emmert tried to do something similar with the original City of Heroes design by having no classes but gave up when it proved to be too hard to not gimp yourself.