Schild's WoW Gripe Thread

[HaemishM]

WoW will do better in the market than *NDA*. Count on it. *NDA Reasons for my thoughts on this removed.*

WoW is a first generation MMOG polished to almost CoH levels of polish. We've all been playing first generation MMOG's for the last 6-7 years. It's as if I'm still playing Madden 1997 with progressive layers of shiney but without even new rosters or online play.

In other words, it's the same game as the last game, only tweaked as if it had been patched.

CoH gets so much praise because they released stable (which means an assload more than anyone cares to admit), it was fun from the get-go. It fulfills even the most sissy of roleplayers and most hardcore of ubers wildest MMOG dream, in that you truly can be as individual as your imagination allows, only now even more so.

[Ardent]

WoW will do better in the market than *NDA*.

I anticipate that the next major "Schild's Gripe Thread" will be far longer than this one.

[blindy]

If World of Warcraft were to be released today, I believe it would be in better shape than any other MMO that has launched to date - by far.

Playing in the beta prior to the last patch, I experienced the following bugs:

- Died, no marker for my corpse on my map, but I remembered where it was, so I walked back and didn't get the prompt for resurrection.  Had to logout and log back in to fix things.

- Pathing issues with mobs.  Most common was the mob would run through me, disappear, and I couldn't see it anymore, or do any skills on it, but it would still be hitting me.  This could be an issue with lag, but I don't think it was, because the times it happened I was able to get the mob to reappear by moving away from where I was fighting.

- Lots of "stuck" mobs, though hell if I know what they were stuck on.  Went to the imp/demonic pig cave near  the Orc/Troll starting spot, and a bunch of the pigs were just standing around, I couldn't hit them and they didn't react to me.

Those are all legitimate bugs not gripes (and I do have gripes with some things like certain quests being really annoying, but that's less objective), and that was only from playing four chars to level 10 or less.  If I'm hitting bugs with relatively little play, I would suspect that there's a lot of them out there.  In fairness, I haven't played much post-patch, so it's possible they've been fixed.  But I didn't notice any of them addressed in the patch notes, and I've encountered the pathing issue since the patch, so that, at least, hasn't been fixed.  

In contrast, I bought COH about a week after release and while I know bugs existed, I don't personally remember  encountering one.

[Liquidator]

I should be the lord of the undead

Oh man, don't give me EQ flashbacks about being a manabitch. Or like the (underrated) Sacrifice...a manawhore! I always got a kick about being followed around by my pack of manawhores...

I still don't understand why everyone has a friggin hard on for CoH character creation.

Really? You don't understand why humans want to individualize themselves? The holy grail of mmorpgs is to have each player's character look unique. CoH did more for that than any game so far, by a pretty decent margin, too (with a nod to SWG for being able to make my dancer, Weezy Jefferson)

No, I totally understand wanting to be unique, but in CoH, you only look different - you have the exact same friggin powers as everyone else.  Maybe looking different from everyone else is your holy grail, but I don't think it's mine, nor do I think you can make that claim for everyone else.

[Liquidator]

If World of Warcraft were to be released today, I believe it would be in better shape than any other MMO that has launched to date - by far.

Playing in the beta prior to the last patch, I experienced the following bugs:

- Died, no marker for my corpse on my map, but I remembered where it was, so I walked back and didn't get the prompt for resurrection.  Had to logout and log back in to fix things.

- Pathing issues with mobs.  Most common was the mob would run through me, disappear, and I couldn't see it anymore, or do any skills on it, but it would still be hitting me.  This could be an issue with lag, but I don't think it was, because the times it happened I was able to get the mob to reappear by moving away from where I was fighting.

- Lots of "stuck" mobs, though hell if I know what they were stuck on.  Went to the imp/demonic pig cave near  the Orc/Troll starting spot, and a bunch of the pigs were just standing around, I couldn't hit them and they didn't react to me.

Those are all legitimate bugs not gripes (and I do have gripes with some things like certain quests being really annoying, but that's less objective), and that was only from playing four chars to level 10 or less.  If I'm hitting bugs with relatively little play, I would suspect that there's a lot of them out there.  In fairness, I haven't played much post-patch, so it's possible they've been fixed.  But I didn't notice any of them addressed in the patch notes, and I've encountered the pathing issue since the patch, so that, at least, hasn't been fixed.  

In contrast, I bought COH about a week after release and while I know bugs existed, I don't personally remember  encountering one.

I can come up with an equal amount of buggy content in CoH when I was playing in the beta.

- Zoning into instances with no mobs.

- Pathing issues.  Mobs running back and forth up and down stairs when attacked, never coming after the atackee.

- Crashing issues.

- No content!

CoH was just as buggy as anything else, and it had/has(?) zero content.  I still believe that WoW in its current form is more polished and more stable than CoH was at this point in beta.

[Ardent]

Cosmetic bugs? Yep, a game this big is teeming with them. Before the last patch, the animation on my night elf rogue would wig out on a regular basis, and I looked like Stephen Hawking doing a Joe Cocker impression.

But basic gameplay? The only testimony I can provide is, I've played WoW longer than any other MMORPG ever released ... and it's only in BETA.

[Alluvian]

-The human capital city is fucking huge and cool looking.

Opinion.  I found the human city to be pretty boring.  Then again cities just don't impress me in mmog games.  I can't think of one that has.  So it is not a warcraft knock.

I frankly think *NDA* diverges more from EQLive than WoW does.

My biggest pros for WoW are:
Runs well
seamless zoning
griffin rides are fun and have character

That is about it.  I like the questing to advance, but frankly the quest to advance model won't be unique to WoW this fall.  Not by a longshot.  And I can't even give WoW the nod for best quests I have played in a beta.  At best it ties.

The pro's above are about all I can really cheer WoW for.  And they all come down to the fact that the game is running 6 year old tech on modern computers.

Now the competition says our game will be around for YEARS, so lets design it for computers that will exist a few years from now.  I don't think that is the right choice either.  I would rather the game be designed for NOW, but at the speed tech moves that is hard to do on slow development MMOG games.

[Faust]

Pros:
1. I can have liberty spikes as an undead.

Gripes:
1. Liberty spikes is ALL the character creation has going for it. Otherwise I feel like I'm customizing peons in WCIII.

uh... what is a liberty spike?

Do you mean you get to be different or does it reference something I might actually give a shit about?

[blindy]

I can come up with an equal amount of buggy content in CoH when I was playing in the beta.

So what?  You're moving the goal posts.  You said if WoW was released today, it would be "in better shape" than any previous MMORPG was on release ("by far").  So, for that comparison, it doesn't matter what CoH was like in beta, it matters what it was like on release.  I never encountered those issues in release (with the possible exception of "no content" which is hardly a bug, and not an objective issue, so it's not comparable to what I listed) and I don't remember hearing about any of them, so persumably they got fixed in beta.  

I'm not knocking WoW for having bugs in beta, I'm just saying your assertion that it's currently more polished and more stable than any mmorpg has been on release is bullshit.  In most of my playing sessions so far I've encountered fundemental gameplay bugs.

[Aslan]

Argh!  Am I the only person in the goddam world who HASN'T been able to play this yet?

[schild]

Argh!  Am I the only person in the goddam world who HASN'T been able to play this yet?

You used to play Everquest. So you've played it. If you want to mimic the experience, change the skin on WinAmp.

[kaid]

Here are my pros about WoW

Melee classes fun to play. I have never enjoyed melee classes in mmrpg as they are usually to dull. I played a rogue to level 20 in stress test and really enjoyed it. I had the tools I needed for grouping>soloing and even pvp.

I also played a warrior and the way warriors work in wow is pretty darn amusing. They get a lot of fun tools to play with that I could only wish I had when I played a warrior in eqlive.

Very diverse character types. This is a pro and a con each character class is very different but this leads to the slippery balancing slope that eqlive has rode lo these many years.

Artistic feel. The graphics themselves are not very advanced but the way they are done conveys a very consistant artistic feel that for those who like it is very appealing. I myself like the graphic style in WoW and would be fully happy with it if spell effects were more impressive.

CONs

Honestly the game feels very solo oriented till low teens 20's. Doing so many quests in a group of people makes you lose alot of the feel for what the quests are trying to convey.

spell graphics are underwhelming.


Class balance this is going to be the bane of their existance. With the 5 man groups I fear you are going to see big 3 type balancing issues with warriors and priests because for high level instances you NEED them. The only other class who can even come in the ball park of warriors is the fricking druid. When a backup healer is your next best option for tanking you are going to see a lot of folks lost in LFG land.


Most of the innovation such as it is in WoW will be matched by NDA at almost the same release Time Frame.

Patching. Does WoW even have incramental patching in the game yet? Most of what I have seen for big patchs has been full game downloads or bittorment crap. I will not buy a game that patching is that much of a hassle. Patching has been done right by to many companies big and small to give a game as expensive as WoW slack on this matter.


Kaid

[Sky]

you have the exact same friggin powers as everyone else.

No, I don't. I have the same potential powers that any other energy/energy blaster has. Cryptic has already gone on record that more powersets are on the way, as well as more avatar customization. It's no different than any other game, class or skill based, everyone has to choose out of the same limited pools of abilities. Druids have druid spells, same as energy blasters have energy powers.

Liberty spikes are a punk hairstyle where you spike up you hair to resemble the spikes on the head of the Statue of Liberty.

[Liquidator]

I can come up with an equal amount of buggy content in CoH when I was playing in the beta.

So what?  You're moving the goal posts.  You said if WoW was released today, it would be "in better shape" than any previous MMORPG was on release ("by far").  So, for that comparison, it doesn't matter what CoH was like in beta, it matters what it was like on release.  I never encountered those issues in release (with the possible exception of "no content" which is hardly a bug, and not an objective issue, so it's not comparable to what I listed) and I don't remember hearing about any of them, so persumably they got fixed in beta.  

I'm not knocking WoW for having bugs in beta, I'm just saying your assertion that it's currently more polished and more stable than any mmorpg has been on release is bullshit.  In most of my playing sessions so far I've encountered fundemental gameplay bugs.

All of the bugs I encountered were still around on the final day of beta, which was just a short time before launch day.  The same bugs were still around during launch because I had two RL friends who play(ed) and they encountered them as well.  So no, my assertion is not bullshit.

[Ardent]

Ug. Accusing an MMORPG of having bugs is like accusing the sky of being blue.

I'm far more concerned with a more fundamental question: based on current (and near-future) competition, which game is most fun to play? Comparing the timesinks ... er, I mean, games ... I've played lately, my answer is WoW, flaws and bugs and all.

[jwinston2]

No your not the only one, I haven't played it either. Bah stupid puter why did you have to catch on fire. Anyway I brought up what schild said on another forum and this is one of the responses so far:

After reading that I didnt even bother with the rest, this person (or yourself if your wrote / agree with it) doesnt have a clue? I mean he obviously only likes undead so is going ot be completely bias to EVERY other race?

    * Character creation is being worked on last time i heard, ITS STILL ONLY BETA!

    * Graphics look shit? i dont agree, ive seen that many ingame videos and screenshots (true i havnt played it myself but seen alot) and i like them, however he is prob one of the people that just hate the style of graphics it is!

    * Oh no! no skill at lvl 2?! WHAT EVER SHALL YOU DO!? Level again idiot!

    * The Aminations for the skills are being worked on, they said they havnt got them all sorted and that every skill is going to have its own special animation to make the game feel like you are doing something

    * I think the idea of Bittorrent is a good one, they are releasing all offical patchs to mirrors aswell as bit torrent (instead of just mirrors) and with the fan base of WoW it shouldnt be hard to get the patches (instead of waiting 4+ hours for a slot on a ftp server or downloading at 5k/sec becuase everyone else is doing the same!)


I dont think wow is going to be the greatest game on earth but i am expecting alot from it, however alot of people still dont understand that ITS IN BETA and that means its unfinished (and when it comes to mmorpg's being in beta its very unfished!)
____________________________________________________

Since I haven't even played the game I really cannot comment though. Ohhh well back to Rome:TW

[HaemishM]

* Oh no! no skill at lvl 2?! WHAT EVER SHALL YOU DO!? Level again idiot!

Die in an MMOG level fire.

[blindy]

All of the bugs I encountered were still around on the final day of beta, which was just a short time before launch day.  The same bugs were still around during launch because I had two RL friends who play(ed) and they encountered them as well.  So no, my assertion is not bullshit.

Shrug.  Maybe they were there, but I never experienced them in playing far more CoH than I've currently played of WoW.  Maybe my experiences are atypical, I won't claim that everyone has the same things happen to them, but all I know is I never really encountered any gameplay bugs (as opposed to stuff like some power isn't working completely like it should) in CoH on release (technically about a week after it) and I've encountered quite a few so far in WoW.  Sure, every MMORPG has bugs, but when I'm running into them during a few couple-hour sessions, it makes me wonder what the fuck people mean when they say the game is "polished".

Not to mention that if WoW released today, some classes would still be missing talents.

[Shockeye]

I dont think wow is going to be the greatest game on earth but i am expecting alot from it, however alot of people still dont understand that ITS IN BETA and that means its unfinished (and when it comes to mmorpg's being in beta its very unfished!)

So when did reviewing a game based on a beta test become acceptable? I think it was when games started shipping in a beta state and people were paying to beta without warning. Until developers/publishers/crackwhores starts putting out games with a minimum of bugs upon release, as they should, I have no problem with schild ranting about some things not being done even though it is still a beta.

[Signe]

You don't give me a skill at level 2? Die of syphilis, idiots.

Out of all the gripes, this one bothers me the most.  All this tells me is that they have thrown in unnecessary levels that give you nothing but the opportunity to shout, "DING!"  Maybe for some that's enough, but I don't think levels without any reward will go far to motivate me, regardless of how quickly you can DING! early on.  I wonder why they would bother?   Hmm... could they be hiding something?  Such as... gasp!... grind?  

I can deal with grind in an MMOG, they all have it to some degree. Hidden grind, however, is likely to annoy the hell out of me... just because.

[Ardent]

(and when it comes to mmorpg's being in beta its very unfished!)

Actually, I've done quite a bit of fishing in WoW, it's fun. You can even get shinies that attract better fish. Claiming that WoW is unfished is just a filthy lie!

[Shockeye]

Hidden grind, however, is likely to annoy the hell out of me... just because.

I agree. I prefer knowing the grind up-front, such as when I pour myself a bowl of Grape Nuts. I don't like the hidden grind such as when I'm eating a hamburger and I run across a little bone nugget.

[kaid]

Okay if a mmrpg has to rely on bittorrent and mirrors for downloading patchs that is just assinine. The harder you make it for for the slack jawed majority of your players to patch the more CS headach and cancellations you will get.

Hell if a company as small as cryptic can do a perfectly fine patcher WoW has no excuse for not making a good working in game patcher.


kaid

[Fargull]

You know.. the bittorrent thing bothers me in one area... if some idiot figures out how to reverse torrent.. hands of the enemy and all.

[MrHat]

You don't give me a skill at level 2? Die of syphilis, idiots.

Out of all the gripes, this one bothers me the most.  All this tells me is that they have thrown in unnecessary levels that give you nothing but the opportunity to shout, "DING!"  Maybe for some that's enough, but I don't think levels without any reward will go far to motivate me, regardless of how quickly you can DING! early on.  I wonder why they would bother?   Hmm... could they be hiding something?  Such as... gasp!... grind?  

I can deal with grind in an MMOG, they all have it to some degree. Hidden grind, however, is likely to annoy the hell out of me... just because.

I agree.

I don't understand how if I can get 4 new powers/skills at level 10, why I can't instead get 1 power at 9 and 2 powers at 10 and 1 power at 11.

Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Morfiend]

You don't give me a skill at level 2? Die of syphilis, idiots.

Out of all the gripes, this one bothers me the most.  All this tells me is that they have thrown in unnecessary levels that give you nothing but the opportunity to shout, "DING!"  Maybe for some that's enough, but I don't think levels without any reward will go far to motivate me, regardless of how quickly you can DING! early on.  I wonder why they would bother?   Hmm... could they be hiding something?  Such as... gasp!... grind?  

I can deal with grind in an MMOG, they all have it to some degree. Hidden grind, however, is likely to annoy the hell out of me... just because.

I agree.

I don't understand how if I can get 4 new powers/skills at level 10, why I can't instead get 1 power at 9 and 2 powers at 10 and 1 power at 11.

Doesn't make sense to me at all.

I agree wit this also. Having played a long time now my only responce is this:

The gameplay is just so much fun, that you are not sitting with bated breath for your next power. There are a few big levels, like lvl 10 for a rogue, when they get dual wield, lvl 10 for a warrior, when they get defensive stance. Umm, cant speak for the casters much. Also, lvl 40, for when you get a mount is huge.

Other than that, no skill or ability is really so badass that you are waiting and yerning for it. Its the same as CoH. You only get new skill every other level. Also, I just visit the trainer every few level, and am like, "oh, cool, a new skill". Also, equipment is level restricted, so I actually (as a warrior) find myslef looking forward to leveling to use a sweet piece of gear I have saved in the bank. Also, starting at lvl 10, you get a talant point every level, and those are great also.

Im not saying that you shouldnt get a skill every level, thats just how it is, and it works fine for me.

*Edit* Bittorrent sucks. I hate it. I want it to go away.

[Margalis]

Is there any MMORPG where you get a new skill every level?

[Ardent]

Is there any MMORPG where you get a new skill every level?

You acquire new skills in WoW far faster than you do in CoH or EQ2, so I don't know what these people are whining about.

[Liquidator]

Is there any MMORPG where you get a new skill every level?

You acquire new skills in WoW far faster than you do in CoH or EQ2, so I don't know what these people are whining about.

They're just nitpicking because they don't want to admit that WoW is a good game.

[schild]

Is there any MMORPG where you get a new skill every level?

You acquire new skills in WoW far faster than you do in CoH or EQ2, so I don't know what these people are whining about.

They're just nitpicking because they don't want to admit that WoW is a good game.

No, we're nitpicking because every new MMORPG is the same one we've been playing. So we find new faults.

Anyway, Morph, combat isn't near as fun in WoW as it was in CoH. And look what almost none of us are playing anymore. WoW is the same shitty combat we've seen everywhere else with a little shittiness of Horizons thrown in (very linked timers).

Over the next month I'll be playing different classes, there is a chance that the rogue is just crap.

[jpark]

Anyway, Morph, combat isn't near as fun in WoW as it was in CoH. And look what almost none of us are playing anymore. WoW is the same shitty combat we've seen everywhere else with a little shittiness of Horizons thrown in (very linked timers).

Over the next month I'll be playing different classes, there is a chance that the rogue is just crap.

I am undecided about this - what the preferable pace of combat should be.  The CoH pace of combat is fast with lots of soloability.  That beats the pants of EQ (WoW) in most respects.  However, because it is so fast and easy - there is little need for group coordination.

The faster the combat the easier it seems.  When it's easy - group dynamics suffer - folks solo - and when we group it is sloppy as hell.  I am not sure if WoW is more like EQ or CoH in this regard.

[Liquidator]

Anyway, Morph, combat isn't near as fun in WoW as it was in CoH. And look what almost none of us are playing anymore. WoW is the same shitty combat we've seen everywhere else with a little shittiness of Horizons thrown in (very linked timers).

Over the next month I'll be playing different classes, there is a chance that the rogue is just crap.

I am undecided about this - what the preferable pace of combat should be.  The CoH pace of combat is fast with lots of soloability.  That beats the pants of EQ (WoW) in most respects.  However, because it is so fast and easy - there is little need for group coordination.

The faster the combat the easier it seems.  When it's easy - group dynamics suffer - folks solo - and when we group it is sloppy as hell.  I am not sure if WoW is more like EQ or CoH in this regard.

I don't find combat in WoW (so far) to be all that different from City of Heroes.  Mobs die quickly so battles are usually quite quick, and with my experience from playing a Rogue and Mage, I am constantly pressing a hotkey to use different special moves/cast spells, which I liken to switching between powers in CoH.  It doesn't remind me of EQ combat at all quite frankly, which is why I am a little surprised that Schild is slamming it so hard since he at least enjoyed CoH somewhat.

[Alluvian]

Is there any MMORPG where you get a new skill every level?

You acquire new skills in WoW far faster than you do in CoH or EQ2, so I don't know what these people are whining about.

Your statement on EQ2 is false.  If you are going to break NDA at least don't lie about it.  In fact EQ2 fits the bill and more to Margalis' original question.

[Ardent]

In fact EQ2 fits the bill and more to Margalis' original question.

Technically, you are right. I am also right, though, but my arguments to defend my position will have to wait until a future time.

[Koyasha]

WoW is releasable.

I keep hearing this.  Do you mean releasable as in 'people will buy this', or releasable as in 'has a reasonably small amount of bugs and no glaring problems'?  Cause if it's the second, that's....absurd.  Not that I dislike WoW.  I wouldn't say I like it a lot either, but it's decent at least, and I like it somewhat, so far.  However, in no way would I say it's releasable.  Not when I walk into Darnassus and see no map (Stormwind has a city map, Darnassus and Ironforge don't), not when I run around Darnassus trying to find a sword trainer only to discover one doesn't exist now...not when I see a dozen or so quests with <Needs Reward> to indicate they're not finished, and my highest character is level 17, and not when I see vendors with no items, and vendors that have no actual item-selling script attached.

I agree with some of Schild's gripes.  Customizing peons...yeah.  I can get a look that I like.  *One* look that I like.  Well, pretty much like Pre-Luclin EQ, or DAoC, or FFXI (actually 3 in FFXI, but that's just because I happen to like more of those, not because of variety).  CoH set the bar pretty high for character creation options, but come on, give me a little more to work with here.  General graphics mean squat to me, but I'm one of those people who HAS to look GOOD.  I've refused to wear any visible helms over 5 years of EQ, and have been quoted to say 'Put Death Touch on a helm, and I *still* won't wear it!' because they look like crap, so what I look like is pretty important to me.  Not to everyone, though, so I admit, this is just a gripe, and doesn't compare to gameplay.

Bittorrent..  I have no problem with bittorrent normally, but there's something about Blizzard's downloader that makes my router go berserk.  My router normally only goes berserk once every day or two.  Every 5 minutes I have to reset the settings while I'm using the Blizz BT client.

I keep getting the graphics bug that Schild posted too.  The fix that liquidator posted worked for me.  Now why isn't this default?  Everyone wants to run in windowed mode.  By the way, why isn't windowed mode default, and I had to edit command lines on my shortcut to get that?  More minor gripes, though.

I'm not going to rail on a game for not being great, I'm just going to go 'mmm...decent' and treat it that way.  That's what WoW strikes me as so far.  Decent.  I disagree with the combat gripes noted so far; I find WoW combat to be pretty engaging.  It might even be as interesting as EQ combat.  Did I say as interesting as EQ combat - for any naysayers out there?  Yes, yes I did.  EQ has had the best combat system I've seen so far, at least as long as you weren't a pure melee class.  Read best as: strategically complex.  I can engage in combat with something and die easily, and I can come back and with some intelligence and strategy, defeat it.  WoW seems like EQ.  Without Bards.  That's important to me because I played a Bard in EQ and found them to be unbelievably fun.  WoW doesn't have that so far.  Then again, I didn't really see the brilliance of the EQ bard until level 55 or so, at which time I was completely in love with the class.

Some of the gripes seem silly to me.  No skill at level 2.  Yawn.  Big deal.  I don't care if I have to wait several levels for new powers, and WoW seems to have them every other level.  WoW's system of character customization so far is the Talents, and it's an interesting approach.  Not sure if I like it yet.  I'm a very big fan of absolute classes, and knowing that a level 50 warrior = level 50 warrior, with the only difference being his equipment.  It goes against the grain, but I've played too many games where I or someone I know get some crappy build of abilities.  Respeccing, while an acceptable solution to that, just seems blah to me.  Personal preference, really, but I like being told, 'this is what you do.  You WILL be able to do it well, and there will be no choice given to you that can possibly hinder you'.  I also like knowing what other people are capable of.  In EQ, I see a druid or a bard or whatever, and I know what they can do.  And thus I know if they suck, because if they aren't at least meeting my expectations, I know they're not doing things well enough.  In a game with all kinds of character customization and stuff, I have no idea what a person can do, and thus very little yardstick to judge whether the person sucks, whether their class sucks, or whether they simply made bad choices in character customization and are therefore reduced to a relatively ineffective character.  WoW gives me this absolute - and a little customization on the side.

But most of all, I wanted to comment to say: Damnit, stop saying WoW is in any way ready for release, because I'm TIRED of MMOG's releasing before they're FINISHED.  'Ready for release' does NOT mean 'is not in SWG/AO/Shadowbane condition'.  It means the damn game is finished.  It means all the classes have all their abilities.  Considering that my Rogue is the only one of three characters that I've gotten past level 10 that even has any talents, which are an important part of the character, although hardly central, I cannot believe any intelligent person with reasonable expectations as to the quality and state of a software release would say that the game is ready to go out the door, when not all classes even have all their abilities yet!

When every class has all of it's abilities, when the maps for all the cities are complete, when there are no longer any more vendors that don't sell, quests that say <Needs Reward>, when Night Elf rogues don't look look like - to quote, "Stephen Hawking doing a Joe Cocker impression." when they use throwing daggers, and when there are no glaring bugs (like either of the aforementioned graphical glitches), THEN the game is ready for release, and not before.  Otherwise, it's on the shelves only because they know that people will pay for it.