 Author
|
Topic: Harry Potter universe is part of the international gay conspiracy (Read 48738 times)
|
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
|
No. Stop it.
|
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
|
|
|
DraconianOne
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2905
|
Come on! Why do you think Ian McKellen was so perfect for the role?
|
A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
|
|
|
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
|
Because he's Sir Ian McKellen.
|
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334
|
If you have information and someone asks you a question you are never, in no way ever, attention whoring if you choose to answer said question. No matter the nature of the question, it is impossible to attention whore in a response to a direct question.
I'm glad we've cleared this up. Thank you all kindly for the time you have generously donated to this issue.
Beyond Attention Whoring there is just common sense. If I take your approach then the next time my wife asks "How do I look in this dress" then I should point out every possible thing that goes through my mind when I look at it. To make it more in line with what actually happened though... it would be like her asking me that question for 10 years and my answer being "Man you look like THIS" and then all of a sudden I say, "No, wait a second... what I said these last 10 years is not true... I really have thought all along you look like THAT". I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... but that is really not the key issue here. I enjoy books, I enjoy getting into a story... I don't like it when authors try to go back and screw with the world they created after the fact. She added nothing to the story (obviously since it was not, you know, IN the story). We are not talking a 1-time book that needed clarification. We are talking a 7 book SERIES. I respect those of you who have actually published works... most of my writing is purely small-scale. But, I still find it hard to believe that anything of ANY real significance did not make it into a 7-book series that covers thousands of pages. |
|
|
|
|
BigBlack
Terracotta Army
Posts: 179
|
Beyond Attention Whoring there is just common sense. If I take your approach then the next time my wife asks "How do I look in this dress" then I should point out every possible thing that goes through my mind when I look at it. To make it more in line with what actually happened though... it would be like her asking me that question for 10 years and my answer being "Man you look like THIS" and then all of a sudden I say, "No, wait a second... what I said these last 10 years is not true... I really have thought all along you look like THAT". So if his sexuality wasn't mentioned before, that's tantamount to being straight? Hetero-normative much? I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... Grow the fuck up? |
|
|
|
|
DraconianOne
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2905
|
Beyond Attention Whoring there is just common sense. If I take your approach then the next time my wife asks "How do I look in this dress" then I should point out every possible thing that goes through my mind when I look at it. To make it more in line with what actually happened though... it would be like her asking me that question for 10 years and my answer being "Man you look like THIS" and then all of a sudden I say, "No, wait a second... what I said these last 10 years is not true... I really have thought all along you look like THAT".
I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... but that is really not the key issue here. I enjoy books, I enjoy getting into a story... I don't like it when authors try to go back and screw with the world they created after the fact. She added nothing to the story (obviously since it was not, you know, IN the story). We are not talking a 1-time book that needed clarification. We are talking a 7 book SERIES. I respect those of you who have actually published works... most of my writing is purely small-scale. But, I still find it hard to believe that anything of ANY real significance did not make it into a 7-book series that covers thousands of pages.
Eh? Also I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... Eh? |
A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
|
|
|
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
|
Man, a COUPLE of people actually beat me to the 'What The Fuck' post.
Well done all concerned.
|
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
|
|
|
|
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334
|
Beyond Attention Whoring there is just common sense. If I take your approach then the next time my wife asks "How do I look in this dress" then I should point out every possible thing that goes through my mind when I look at it. To make it more in line with what actually happened though... it would be like her asking me that question for 10 years and my answer being "Man you look like THIS" and then all of a sudden I say, "No, wait a second... what I said these last 10 years is not true... I really have thought all along you look like THAT". So if his sexuality wasn't mentioned before, that's tantamount to being straight? Hetero-normative much? I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... Grow the fuck up? Would you say the same if I said "I am not a big fan of baseball players"? Or, how about, "I am not a big fan of smokers"? If sexual orientation is not a big deal then why is it a big deal that I am not a fan of certain orientations... how bout a little consistency here. I suppose we could turn this into a gay/straight thing... but I thought we had moved beyond that into a "How author's should deal with their material" thing. As to his Sexuality not being mentioned... I did not just assume he was straight, heck I never THOUGHT about it. You assume that I painted him as this hetero-normative guy (I guess big hyphenated phrases add weight to an argument, so I will use it too), but really I just painted him as a wise older magician who could kick butt until he died. The point of the whole dress analogy is not that she somehow "created" a straight character and then turned him "gay", but that she spend 10 years NOT saying anything about sex at all and then decided it was an important formative background for a main character of the book. Fact is she has/had every right to do whatever, this is Her copywrite. I just don't like people messing with stories after they are finished. I did not like it when George Lucas re-made episodes 4-6, and I don't like this. If Sex is an issue, make it an issue (and obviously she was trying to say it was an issue, as it was a motivating factor in WHY Dumbledore almost went to the evil side... as opposed to the reason(s) she alluded to in the book.) |
|
|
|
|
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
|
|
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
|
|
|
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
|
I don't like it when authors try to go back and screw with the world they created after the fact. She added nothing to the story (obviously since it was not, you know, IN the story). We are not talking a 1-time book that needed clarification. We are talking a 7 book SERIES. I respect those of you who have actually published works... most of my writing is purely small-scale. But, I still find it hard to believe that anything of ANY real significance did not make it into a 7-book series that covers thousands of pages.
I'll just let a well known author chime in on this... which was of course posted last page, from his first goddamn paragraph, you should have read it: All that tells us is that Ross Douthat doesn't write fiction.
You always wind up knowing more about your characters than you can get onto the page. Pages are finite, and the story isn't about giving you all the information about everyone in it any more than life is. Things the author knows about characters (or at least, strongly suspects -- it's never really real until it hits the page, because the process of writing is also a process of discovery) that don't make it onto the page could include the characters' backstory, what they like to eat, the toothpaste they use, what happens to them after the story is over or before it began, and what they do in bed. That something didn't turn up in the books just means it didn't make it onto the page or wasn't relevant to the story. (Or even, it made it in and the author cut that scene out because it didn't work. One of my favourite scenes in Anansi Boys went because it made the chapter work better when it was gone.)
And, for my next trick: As to his Sexuality not being mentioned... I did not just assume he was straight, heck I never THOUGHT about it. You assume that I painted him as this hetero-normative guy (I guess big hyphenated phrases add weight to an argument, so I will use it too), but really I just painted him as a wise older magician who could kick butt until he died.
aaaaaaand the response just fits just so perfectly: And, truth to tell, sexuality tends to be such a minor thing, if you have several hundred characters running around in your head. You know more than you've written. One of the characters in Wall in Stardust, for example, is not what he is pretending to be in a way that has nothing at all to do with sex, although the clues are all there in the book, but if I don't do another story set in Wall you'll never find out who he is, or even why he's interesting.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 07:19:50 AM by bhodi »
|
|
|
|
|
Righ
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6542
Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time.
|
Beyond Attention Whoring there is just common sense. If I take your approach then the next time my wife asks "How do I look in this dress" then I should point out every possible thing that goes through my mind when I look at it. To make it more in line with what actually happened though... it would be like her asking me that question for 10 years and my answer being "Man you look like THIS" and then all of a sudden I say, "No, wait a second... what I said these last 10 years is not true... I really have thought all along you look like THAT". So if his sexuality wasn't mentioned before, that's tantamount to being straight? Hetero-normative much? I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... Grow the fuck up? Your job here is done. |
The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
|
|
|
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9029
inflicts shingles.
|
Perhaps it makes me homophobic, but what I really feel is like I spend thousands of pages learning about a world and a main character and you just turned it all upside down
See, right here. If someone's sexual orientation 'turns your world upside down' you're part of the problem. If where Dumbledore sticks his wang or wishes to stick his wang is a preocupation or a concern, I must insist that you explore the possibiity of 'turning your life upside down' for yourself, or, alternately, get a life. |
I should get back to nature, too. You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer. Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached. Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe
I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa
Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
|
|
|
|
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334
|
Stuff I take it you are saying I should have read the article so as not to repeat exactly what he said. I have a tendency to skip embedded links, but when I went back to read it I realized he made all of my points more succinctly. I am trying to think of an example to use here to turn this away from some stupid gay/straight discussion and into the whole "how author's should treat their material" thing (which is where Gaiman went in his post). How about this... its not Dumbledore and his gayness, but the fact that Harry is really Voldemort's son through a one-time affair his mom had. It is a much better explanation for how they are so linked magically, but she did not discover that fact until later as she was writing and it would have just messed with the storyline so she left it out. You will have to be willing to stretch here, but I don't feel like taking the time to build a perfectly appropriate analogy. It is not the gayness that "turned my world upside down (honestly, that was a horrible phrase, way too dramatic... this is, afterall, a fiction book series that I read once and will never need to read again)". It was that she was introducing a new, motivation for a character that had some serious insights revealed in book 7. It was one of her best works as far as dealing with black-white-grey, personal motivations, etc. So, the whole book you are working through "who IS this guy?" and she leaves out a detail that would have shed a Very different light on the subject. I just feel it is bad form to disclose it in a one-sentence fassion at a press briefing. It is not like she would have written, "Oh yes, and Dumbledore also thought about ruling the world so he could sleep with his hot roomate." She would have taken pages, chapters, even books to develop this... which is how things should be done in the world of books. |
|
|
|
|
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
|
And don't forget, we ARE still in serious business. She probably shouldn't have opened her trap in this case unless she was deliberately attention whoring. That still doesn't excuse your (and a lot of other people's) homophobia about it. This shouldn't be news in the first place. But it is,  , and she should have known better. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 07:57:46 AM by bhodi »
|
|
|
|
|
DraconianOne
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2905
|
Would you say the same if I said "I am not a big fan of baseball players"? Or, how about, "I am not a big fan of smokers"? If sexual orientation is not a big deal then why is it a big deal that I am not a fan of certain orientations... how bout a little consistency here. I suppose we could turn this into a gay/straight thing... but I thought we had moved beyond that into a "How author's should deal with their material" thing. Again I say "Eh?" What the fuck is a "homosexual lifestyle"? Do all homosexuals live the same, wear the same clothes, go to the same clubs? Is there some checklist of required accessories and habits that you need to tick off in order to become a bona fide, fully signed up, cheque has cleared homosexual? What the fuck do you mean? And yes, I would say the same if you said "I am not a big fan of baseball players". Do you mean "I don't like people who play baseball" or do you mean "I don't like baseball" or is it that you don't like smoking or people who smoke. Apart from anything, neither playing baseball or smoking is fucking orientation, it's a choice. In case you didn't pick up on the fact but homosexuality is NOT a choice. The point of the whole dress analogy is not that she somehow "created" a straight character and then turned him "gay", but that she spend 10 years NOT saying anything about sex at all and then decided it was an important formative background for a main character of the book. Fact is she has/had every right to do whatever, this is Her copywrite. I just don't like people messing with stories after they are finished. This isn't messing with the story! This is just revealing background information that is entirely irrelevant. He might have a peanut allergy as well but it's not fucking relevant to the story. Read the Gaiman link for another authors perspective on this. Or, perhaps, email Clive Barker or Ian McKellen and see what they think about it. Or not as, you know, they live the homosexual lifestyles that you're not a fan of. For all we know, she may well have included that information about Dumbledore and decided to edit it out because - let's just hypothesise for a moment - a) it interrupted the flow of the story or even b) she was worried that it might be seen that she was saying "if you're gay you will make bad decisions therefore being gay is bad" and decided to avoid that controversy. It's not like she ever avoided the subject of sex - book 5 through 7 had all sorts of unrequited love, jealousy and sexual frustration going on. If you read further about this, she also mentions that she actively harangued the writer of the HP5 film to remove a reference to a female love interest of Dumbledore's owing to the fact that he was gay. This took place before the final book was released so retroactively going all Lucas over the story? I don't think so. But back to this "homosexual lifestyle" - seriously, I'm fascinated and waiting to see what pejorative explanation you can furnish us with! |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 08:11:37 AM by DraconianOne »
|
|
A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
|
|
|
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9029
inflicts shingles.
|
So, the whole book you are working through "who IS this guy?" and she leaves out a detail that would have shed a Very different light on the subject. Can you tell us why you think this would have shed such a very different light? You make it sound as if gay people's sexuality is qualitatively different than straight sexuality. The notion reminds me of one of Bill Maher's rants about straight people trying to hook up gay friends with any other gay people. You'd not go up to a straight friend and say "Hey, I know this straight person, you should hook up" in virtue of them being straight, but aparently, somehow being 'gay' makes you somehow a different beast that will hump any other beast of the same stripe. The notion is born of ignorance. Note, I'm not calling you bigotted, but I am questioning your level of actual knowledge about sexuality here. |
I should get back to nature, too. You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer. Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached. Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe
I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa
Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
|
|
|
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
|
You'd not go up to a straight friend and say "Hey, I know this straight person, you should hook up" in virtue of them being straight, but aparently, somehow being 'gay' makes you somehow a different beast that will hump any other beast of the same stripe.
Wait. I would. Is that wrong ? |
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
|
|
|
Daeven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1210
|
I am not a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle... Eh? Didn't you see Birdcage? Men angsting over Draperies! He's not in to that man! Give him some space, will ya?! |
"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
|
|
|
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
|
Didn't you see Birdcage? Men angsting over Draperies! He's not in to that man! Give him some space, will ya?!
If he's not into that type of man, I wonder what type of man he IS into? |
|
|
|
|
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
|
What the hell is hetero-normative? Am I wrong or is only 10% of the human population gay? Is it somehow morally wrong in the face of zero knowledge to simply "play the percentages" so to speak? I find that somehow to be a lapse in logic.
|
CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
|
|
|
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19324
sentient yeast infection
|
What the hell is hetero-normative? Am I wrong or is only 10% of the human population gay? Is it somehow morally wrong in the face of zero knowledge to simply "play the percentages" so to speak? I find that somehow to be a lapse in logic.
If you play the percentages, Dumbledore pretty much HAD to be gay, since almost every other main character in the HP books was known to be straight. |
|
|
|
|
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11844
|
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article379404.eceDad's tattoo Dumble-Doh!
PROUD Paul Croft got a tattoo of Harry Potter wizard Albus Dumbledore on his back – but is now being teased by pals after he was outed as GAY.
Proud Paul, 36, spent a YEAR having the Hogwarts headmaster etched into his skin as a surprise for his five kids. But the factory worker has been the butt of jokes ever since Harry Potter author JK Rowling revealed last week that Dumbledore was in love with a fellow male sorcerer.
Paul, of Nottingham, moaned yesterday: “It’s been terrible. I’ve always liked Dumbledore – just not in that way.  Lulz #2.
|
"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
|
|
|
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11844
|
What the hell is hetero-normative? Am I wrong or is only 10% of the human population gay? Is it somehow morally wrong in the face of zero knowledge to simply "play the percentages" so to speak? I find that somehow to be a lapse in logic.
The Oracle of Ultimate Truth says... Estimates of the incidence of homosexuality range from 1% to 10% of the population, usually finding there are slightly more gay men than lesbians ...they have citiations and everything... Gay men have, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[83] |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 10:44:52 AM by eldaec »
|
|
"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
|
|
|
|
WayAbvPar
|
 "Wow. I hadn't heard that. I've been really busy lately not caring about the sexual preferences of fictional people." The Onion gets it in one. |
When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM
Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood
Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
|
|
|
|
|
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
|
that is my all time favorite onion article, ever.
|
|
|
|
|
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021
|
I love the absence of green text. Especially when it shows up unrepentant bigots.
It's a shame that The Onion hasn't been that funny in years. :(
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334
|
It is at this time that I will attempt to gracefully bow out and admit that either:
a) I am an evil bigot who hates all things gay and the people that espouse them
or
b) I have chosen a poor topic in which to write about why I don't like author's who change their stories after the fact
or
c) My arguments are speciuos and my analogies do not hold up to scrutiny (which seems to be the conensus of my real life friends who have now read them)
I know many of you are praying for my unrepentent heart, and I take comfort in the thought.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 06:10:38 PM by Vinadil »
|
|
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
I know many of you are praying ...
Oh now you have to go and bring RELIGION into it?! You're a horrible, horrible person. |
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
|
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334
|
No no, Lamaros did that when he asked me to repent... at least I assume that I am the unrepentant bigot.
|
|
|
|
|
Calantus
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2389
|
Can I say that I don't want to hear about an old man's sex life or is that being oldmanaphobic?
Also, I assume everyone is straight, white, male, and 20-30 until I've been told/shown otherwise. I don't see how that is wrong.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 06:37:13 PM by Calantus »
|
|
|
|
|
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021
|
Can I say that I don't want to hear about an old man's sex life or is that being oldmanaphobic?
Also, I assume everyone is straight, white, male, and 20-30 until I've been told/shown otherwise. I don't see how that is wrong.
Sheesh. Please, don't attempt reasonable argument here. We're a diverse society, to assume one is a member of the majority before demonstrated otherwise... it's just wrong. And homophobic! (Not to mention racist and sexist). Bigots everywhere! But just to further confuse this discussion... If someone read all the Harry Potter books and you asked them what Dumblydore's sexuality is they'd probably say "I dunno, it's never stated." As far as the conception of him in the novels go he is not gay or straight or anything. He's a mystery! The fact J.K. decided to 'out' him to the press (but not for the press, oh no!) doesn't rewrite the novels. |
|
|
|
|
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
|
She's an idiot for answering the question.
People are idiots for caring about it.
I'm dumber for having read this thread.
May God have mercy on your souls.
Also, the guy who got the Dumbledore tatoo is a walking billboard of why not to get pop culture tatoos. Idiot.
|
CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
|
|
|
|
 |
