Mythic-EA shuts down Warhammer beta, tells players to come back later

[dr_dre]

AOC ,tcos will be happy to hear that warhammer has been rescheduled again.

[shiznitz]

We all knew the beta postponement was more than just responding to feedback. As always, the real story never comes out upfront.

[eldaec]

"They missed part of a milestone" is at least a lot more straightforward than most executives will generally say in public.

Also WAR release pushed to Q2

Was anyone seriously expecting it in Q1?


Right now I'd say....

Q2: possible but unlikely.
Q3: Most probable.
Q4: Wouldn't be a surprise.
2009: Unlikely.

[shiznitz]

My point is that if EA is going to eventually admit the real reason for the delay in a public conference call and that reason isn't a big deal, then why not lead with it? As it played out, no experienced MMOG fan believed the "feedback" excuse and then Bioware/Pandemic happened making that excuse look even more feeble. If Mythic/EA had led with "missed a milestone" then there would have been a lot less speculation about WAR getting shelved completely following the Bioware announcement. People wouldn't have connected the two events at all since missing a milestone is purely a production issue, thus game specific, and not a corporate development issue which is how it appeared.

[tazelbain]

We all knew the beta postponement was more than just responding to feedback. As always, the real story never comes out upfront.

Open RvR isn't that extreme of a rule set.  As long as we don't see Open PvP or PvE servers, I think we are okay.  I was expecting a server that had all the same rules as Core but victory points were weighted toward Field RvR instead.

Was anyone seriously expecting it in Q1?

I was until the beta pause.

[garthilk]

Well,

The reality is, in this market you can't afford to launch like Vanguard, Hellgate, and some of the other wonderful attempts at success. Taking the time is no real big suprise. As for the changes to RvR, Mark did a great job of highlighting some of the changes in this interview. (Self Promotion Warning). Personally, I think it's a step in the right direction and the options appeal to a larger base of customers. Then again, just my opinion. Anyway, a link to his post on the forums as well.

I mean with the pause in testing, for the most part this was no suprise. For a developer to put something on hold like this costs a lot of money. Which is why I belive the annoucement came at a time when quaterly earnings were discussed. Just like the last delay. Obviously we're talking about a huge company with corperate earnings issues. Anytime you adjust those earnings with shareholders, timing is everything.

[eldaec]

Reading that interview, it suggests that Naughty realm and Sensible realm characters all walk about the same pve zones, like in wow......


......well that sucks.

They may have multiple rulesets to help deal with it, but I really don't understand what was wrong with the DAoC solution, where everyone has pve areas that the other realm simply can't get to other than through occaisional special mechanics.

[eldaec]

If Mythic/EA had led with "missed a milestone" then there would have been a lot less speculation about WAR getting shelved completely following the Bioware announcement.

No.

People would have said exactly the same thing. People are like that. It's not as if they were listening to what Mythic said anyway.

[tazelbain]

Reading that interview, it suggests that Naughty realm and Sensible realm characters all walk about the same pve zones, like in wow......


......well that sucks.

They may have multiple rulesets to help deal with it, but I really don't understand what was wrong with the DAoC solution, where everyone has pve areas that the other realm simply can't get to other than through occaisional special mechanics.

Hehehe, they told us about that in the first podcast.  I just don't get the obsession with seeing unattackable enemy.  The game has rules; just in the same way I can't go up and chop a tree down with my sword.  I think the reason why they don't want to do walls again is because they, not only wall off players, but they wall off the landscape which makes the world feel smaller than it actually is.

[Merusk]

I think the reason why they don't want to do walls again is because they, not only wall off players, but they wall off the landscape which makes the world feel smaller than it actually is.

I'd go with this.  One of the largest complaints I recall about DAoC (prior to the xp-nerf and subsequent other bitterness) was that you only ever saw 1/3 of the  content.  (hell, even though the other realms were simply color shifts of models in most cases, it was enough to get some folks ire up.)  Not to mention, 2-3 realms means you create 2-3X the content.. even with color shifts.

[tazelbain]

Also in the later tiers, PvE areas are not contiguous.  This is based on one of the example maps they used when explaining the tiers.

[Arthur_Parker]

It's also how you automatically increase your dev team size as you chase multiple bugs specific to different rulesets. I'm not against different ruleset servers per se. It's worked in the past and could here. It just isn't something you flip a switch on though.

It's two or three different games for the price of just over one.  As I said earlier they made it difficult for themselves with the zone layout.  If you intend to have different rulesets it's a lot easier to plan for them at the start.

The switch comment sounds right but ignores the fact that even a simple change can have a dramatic effect on gameplay. The FBI stated something like 50,000 people were playing on that fan hosted Lineage 2 server with adjusted exp rates.  AC1 Darktide was the same as the other AC servers in the early years except for the pvp switch being constantly on.

[Venkman]

It's two or three different games for the price of just over one.

Only until you launch, and only if the codebase is solid and never changes. After launch, and due to reality, you are supporting two to three different games. By not having infinite resources, at least one of those rulesets is not going to get supported like the other two. You can do that if you have a huge budget and team, but even then it's only worth it if you can prove the system will be used.

My point is that if EA is going to eventually admit the real reason for the delay in a public conference call and that reason isn't a big deal, then why not lead with it?

Because unconfirmed rumours die eventually. Stated facts do not, and they stick to careers like glue.

[Johny Cee]

It's two or three different games for the price of just over one.

Only until you launch, and only if the codebase is solid and never changes. After launch, and due to reality, you are supporting two to three different games. By not having infinite resources, at least one of those rulesets is not going to get supported like the other two. You can do that if you have a huge budget and team, but even then it's only worth it if you can prove the system will be used.

?

DAoC has multiple rule sets,  which barely require any additional support or dev time.  You just make it clear to the player base that it's a couple of minor rules differences and the bulk of dev time goes to the core rule set, and they have to lump it.

The open PvP servers were hugely popular for a while.  A PvE server and PvP server are still around.  The classic servers are as populated as the core rule set servers.

[eldaec]

The only difference they are talking about so far is that the flagging system is turned off, or it isn't.

I'm not suggesting that this is zero overhead, but it really doesn't seem like a big deal.

he FBI stated something like 50,000 people were playing on that fan hosted Lineage 2 server with adjusted exp rates.

However, the FBI was either speculating or regurgitating NCSoft BS for dramatic effect and never really had a clue what they were talking about.

[Venkman]

We're not talking about a game that's been around for so long everything's become efficient.

I grant that years down the road once everything's become well established, including your understanding of the playerbase you ended up with, it's not as huge a deal to flip a few flags. But that's once you know stuff about your game and playerbase that Mythic currently is still learing.

[JWIV]

I was never close enough to figure out what was on a guy's back when he was running towards me or crouched on a hill. What was in his hand, occasionally, but by then generally it was too late.

I, too, wish for planetside part 2. Done right. With infinite respecs (or maybe double the points given) to mesh with a squad on a moment's notice. The most fun I had in that game was the 7 day trial where you could respec.

You and me both.   Killing crazy alien worshipers and fascist dogs was never so much fun or rewarding.   I haven't played the game in years and I still get pissed off about the Terran and Vanu hard-on for Cyssor. 

[Killga]

I wonder how much GW had to do with the delay/suspension of beta - after all they canned the 1st attempt on WH online because they didnt like the direction it took...

The reason for my suspicion is that if anything Mythic has had a fabulous track record of sticking to deadlines (and not shying away to shove largely untested stuff down their customers throat if one remembers the ToA expansion to DAoC) and EA is well known for pushing out half-finished stuff anyway...

[Trippy]

Huh?

[schild]

He's trying to say it's Games Workshop's fault.

Interesting angle, though completely and totally wrong.

[Killga]

I was trying to say that if Games Workshop saw a reason to intervene they would likely not shy away from it, and it was the first thing that came to my mind with regards to the the delay/suspension of beta...

I take your word that my suspicion is mistaken, although as a long-time WH follower and disillusioned EA/Mythic customer that doesnt make me feel any better...

[eldaec]

I was trying to say that if Games Workshop saw a reason to intervene they would likely not shy away from it, and it was the first thing that came to my mind with regards to the the delay/suspension of beta...

I take your word that my suspicion is mistaken, although as a long-time WH follower and disillusioned EA/Mythic customer that doesnt make me feel any better...

I'm not sure how many other Games Workshop licensed games you've played. But based on their almost universal shittiness, I think we can safely say that GW would never intervene based on anything other than getting precious about matching the IP lore.


PS. They didn't can the first the WH online. Climax ran out of money.

PPS. ToA worked fine on release. The problem was design, not execution.

[Killga]

Thanx for the clarification - it seems I put too much faith in GW then... 

[/quote]
PPS. ToA worked fine on release. The problem was design, not execution.
[/quote]

If the design is poorly thought through and widely untested then it is NOT "working fine" as legions of former Mythic customers will attest...

[Dash]

I have to admit, I'm not an RP type or hardcore PvPer, but to say that "War is everywhere" and then see opposing faction but not kill them is kind of silly.  I mean, I'll get over it but they certainly should brainstorm on how to minimize it if they're looking to foment a feeling of Realm vrs Realm.

It really was exciting in DAoC to catch a glimpse of the enemy. 

Only thing I can think of is to have enemy players disguise themselves to fool people ala the spy in TF2.  You'd have to make it so they couldnt initiate an attack, but could be attacked and "uncloaked" then respond, if it were a PvE area.

That's obviously imperfect but hopefully they come yup with something.

[tmp]

If Mythic/EA had led with "missed a milestone" then there would have been a lot less speculation about WAR getting shelved completely following the Bioware announcement. People wouldn't have connected the two events at all since missing a milestone is purely a production issue, thus game specific, and not a corporate development issue which is how it appeared.

Testers reporting game to be mediocre shit is also game-specific production issue and that's pretty much what they admitted to. Didn't stop people from making their own theories about it.

And that it doesn't stop other developers from shipping their abominations early? Welp, maybe not everyone wants to end up like another Auto Assault or Tabula Rasa.

[eldaec]

Thanx for the clarification - it seems I put too much faith in GW then... 

PPS. ToA worked fine on release. The problem was design, not execution.
[/quote]

If the design is poorly thought through and widely untested then it is NOT "working fine" as legions of former Mythic customers will attest...
[/quote]

Yes, yes, to paraphrase you more directly then....

ToA wasn't half-finished or largely untested on release, it was just shit.

[BigBlack]

Seeing enemies I can't kill = I will never subscribe.

As it stands, this is Sporthammer, not Warhammer.  And if I were a sport-PvPer, I can't imagine why I'd choose this one over (correct me if I'm forgetting any that offer Sport PvP):

WoW
CoH
DAoC (Which, with Keep Sieges, Relic Raids, battlegrounds, and not peace-bearing with the other faction, may actually have more "war" in it than WAR will! )
Guild Wars
Fury
Puzzle Pirates
DDO
LoTRO
EQ2(?)

Fuck, if I'm going to play Sport PvP, I can't think of any game I'd rather be in than CoH, if only because you get to be someone *interesting*, and they've scripted some really complex PvP encounters over the years.

Yes, I get they're banking on the IP a bit, and that I'm supposed to enjoy fighting 'in the Warhammer universe'.  Gee, mister, you mean I'm not just a troll, I'm one of the trolls that I used to see the husky kids with DragonBall t-shirts playing with during middle school lunch period instead of talking to girls? PLEASE TO BE SIGNING UP

Remind me again how that's nearly as awesome as playing as my own custom-made superhero?

And CoH still couldn't hold my sub for more than 4 or 5 months.

Christ, this game is such a massive abortion.

[Ratman_tf]

All PvP games are sportish unless one comes out where killing a character also kills the player in real life.

Hardcore mode, man.

[eldaec]

As it stands, this is Sporthammer, not Warhammer.  And if I were a sport-PvPer, I can't imagine why I'd choose this one over (correct me if I'm forgetting any that offer Sport PvP):

To be fair, WAR might just be better executed sport pvp than these games.

In a crowded market, I rather doubt it, but there you go.


I do agree with you about CoH mind you. CoH pvp is underrated.

[Fordel]

My experience with CoH PvP was everyone being able to escape everyone else at nearly all times, or 20:1 odds finally killing someone, or being transported into guards if you were asleep at the wheel and strayed to near the enemy base area.

[eldaec]

My experience with CoH PvP was everyone being able to escape everyone else at nearly all times, or 20:1 odds finally killing someone, or being transported into guards if you were asleep at the wheel and strayed to near the enemy base area.

You can almost always escape in CoH if you don't commit to the fight and you just try to escape.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[Fordel]

I am 


I forgot to mention everyone can stealth too, that makes it EXTRA fun!



It's like everyone is a DaoC minstrel with permanent speed of sound.

[sinij]

At the time I left the acquisition was at "rumor we gossiped about at lunch" level; it wasn't a done deal until after I was gone.

The thought that had I stayed I most likely would have had some role on UO fills me with schadenfreude, though.

I think UO had enough damage done to it without your input.

[eldaec]

It's like everyone is a DaoC minstrel with permanent speed of sound.

If everyone has permanent speed of sound, then nobody does. It's Zen.

[shiznitz]

It's like everyone is a DaoC minstrel with permanent speed of sound.

If everyone has permanent speed of sound, then nobody does. It's Zen.

It's retard Zen. Speed of sound is an absolute, not a relative, distance/time measure no matter if one is discussing MACH1 or a spell in an MMOG.