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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Mythic-EA shuts down Warhammer beta, tells players to come back later 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Mythic-EA shuts down Warhammer beta, tells players to come back later  (Read 360480 times)
eldaec
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Reply #35 on: October 08, 2007, 02:32:42 PM

The specifics are and will remain a mystery until EA buys Mythic wholesale

What? Again? Wouldn't they have to sell Mythic first?

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Kaa
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Reply #36 on: October 08, 2007, 02:40:12 PM

Tweety was involved, she was seen at shows, and wrote the grab bag, and a whole load of junk on the herald wotsit, and generally did her thing in forums. She was doing more UO toward the end, which may explain something.

Yep, I was wrong, Tweety was doing the whole "community" thing at Mythic till the Spring of 2007, so yeah, she did Warhammer as well.

Kaa
Montague
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Reply #37 on: October 08, 2007, 02:46:42 PM

Supposedly this is all part of the master plan, from the Warherald site:

"Greetings all!

Recently, all WAR Beta participants received a letter stating our plan to end this phase of the closed beta test this Wednesday, October 10th. We periodically close Beta, our last closure being in March of this year, to focus on major improvements and polish. The next phase of Beta will reopen in early December with plenty of new and improved content, art and systems for our beta-testers.We are very proud to have reached this point in development. Beta has been going very well and the testing community is extremely active. Excitement around the game continues to grow and the team is looking forward to enhancing many features already in the game as well as continuing to add new features to an already great game.

Based on player feedback, our own observations and our current schedule, we have set the following major development goals:

Improve open field skirmishes and battlefield objectives with major enhancements.

Provide players with even more options to customize their character both through their abilities and visual appearance.

Continue to enhance Public Quests and the PQ System.

Prepare the elves for their release into the world!

When the beta reopens, we look forward to welcoming back all of our current testers, as well as many new faces. Shortly after re-opening the doors, we will be inviting the first wave of guilds into the beta to really get things rolling.

Thank you!- The Warhammer: Age of Reckoning Team"


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Modern Angel
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Reply #38 on: October 08, 2007, 02:52:07 PM

The specifics are and will remain a mystery until EA buys Mythic wholesale

What? Again? Wouldn't they have to sell Mythic first?

My half-assed quip was operating under the assumption that the guys at Mythic still owned some of their IP. Guess not.
eldaec
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Reply #39 on: October 08, 2007, 02:54:16 PM

The reference to customisation is interesting.

Character specialisation in WAR appeared to be as limited as in WoW, it seemed a bit unambitious tbh, so more is probably good.

The line about PQs rather supports what I had heard on forums from people claiming to be in beta, ie. that quests, and PQs in particular were the usual crappy collect 10 'vexatious vulture vaginas' variety.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #40 on: October 08, 2007, 02:58:39 PM

Yep, that's bullshit I smell.
Nebu
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Reply #41 on: October 08, 2007, 02:59:52 PM

One of the things I really appreciated in DAoC was that you could recognize a player and their class on site.  There was just enough customization that you could often tell from a distance who you were going to fight (both by name and by class).  I think this really added to immersion and was one of the things sorely lacking in WoW pvp.  I do hope that WAR brings this to the table at release.  

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tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #42 on: October 08, 2007, 03:00:53 PM

Richard Duffek, the guy who replaced (kinda) Sonya, left last month.  So I am guessing this two months gives them time to fill out their CM staff and gives Mark Jacobs sometime to figure how not to alienate them.

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angry.bob
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Reply #43 on: October 08, 2007, 03:03:58 PM

Unless I can get a mole.

Send FreshFruit. He's as shifty as the desert sands.

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Reply #44 on: October 08, 2007, 03:05:03 PM

Unless I can get a mole.
Send FreshFruit. He's as shifty as the desert sands.
He's got ginger feet.

He's a man that's easy to love.
Rasix
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Reply #45 on: October 08, 2007, 03:10:12 PM

So, what's the line now on a class/race going into the game a week before launch? 

-Rasix
Merusk
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Reply #46 on: October 08, 2007, 03:33:48 PM

To be honest, something smells rotten in Mythicland. Employees are being replaced/leaving left and right, and with Paul's highly entertaining rants promising everything but the fucking moon I was starting to feel it was too good to be true. That something rotten smells like EA, methinks.

Um... how about, "It's EA."   Folks falling-off the Mythic truck was something anticipated back when the announcement was first made.  If it wasn't because they'd formerly worked for EA and had the "never fucking again" chip on their shoulder, then it was because they'd heard the stories and knew more from friends/ colleagues than those of us outside 'dev world' will hear.  Not to mention attrition after a buy-out is normal in ANY industry, since things change no matter how "Hands off" the buyer is, and some folks would rather start fresh.

As for this little stick in the eye, most of you are looking at it much too rosy.  My suspicion is more on a "It's not WOW-Enough!"  than the "It's too WoW, change it!" side of things.   

Also, given that we're still lacking more concrete details on SEVERAL classes and elves only just got finished enough to announce (or else why delay it for 2 months.)  a delay should come as no surprise at all.   The shutdown part IS a fucking shocker, and I agree.  It can't be good news, no matter how many times they say, "Oh hay, there's no American forces here."

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Soln
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Reply #47 on: October 08, 2007, 03:39:25 PM

Sounds like the end2end QA has not met "beta exit criteria".


This going Harry Potter?  Or just delayed further like TR?
Talonus
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Reply #48 on: October 08, 2007, 03:40:27 PM

As for this little stick in the eye, most of you are looking at it much too rosy.  My suspicion is more on a "It's not WOW-Enough!"  than the "It's too WoW, change it!" side of things.

A long while ago Mythic claimed that EA would have little to no bearing on the game's design. EA butting in more would make sense as to why this is occurring. For a company with as much experience as Mythic it seems odd that they'd be disorganized to have to do a major overhaul this far into the beta cycle without something going on behind the scenes.
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Reply #49 on: October 08, 2007, 03:45:45 PM

As for this little stick in the eye, most of you are looking at it much too rosy.  My suspicion is more on a "It's not WOW-Enough!"  than the "It's too WoW, change it!" side of things.

A long while ago Mythic claimed that EA would have little to no bearing on the game's design. EA butting in more would make sense as to why this is occurring. For a company with as much experience as Mythic it seems odd that they'd be disorganized to have to do a major overhaul this far into the beta cycle without something going on behind the scenes.

Yeah.. one time my office hired this guy who said, "Fuck the company standards, I'm going to design this house the way I want to."   Want to guess what happened there, too?

When you're owned, you're owned.  Groan like a bitch about it, but you're still doing shit the way the guy who signs the checks wants it.

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Lt.Dan
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Reply #50 on: October 08, 2007, 03:59:25 PM

There's some sense in shutting down the beta before major changes.  MMO players are a bunch of whinging dicks with the memory of a goldfish.  Giving them a couple of months off to swim circles is a good chance to make changes and get some buzz going for an almost gold version of the game in the lead up to release.

Of course they could be spinning the shit out of it because it's cactus.
eldaec
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Reply #51 on: October 08, 2007, 04:02:27 PM

Also, given that we're still lacking more concrete details on SEVERAL classes and elves only just got finished enough to announce (or else why delay it for 2 months.)  a delay should come as no surprise at all.

We pretty much know exactly what every class does, we've known it for a while. The two realms are just reskins of each other. Each side has the same 12 classes. As such you can spot the missing pairs to determine what the last 4 classes are. Sensible Elf nukers will be Squig Herders (pets), and tanks will be Black Orcs (cc-tank), for the naughty elves, the healer will be a warrior priest (paladin), and nuker will be an engineer (short range aoe).


But I agree that the delay shouldn't be a surprise, I just don't think shutting Beta down is that big a deal. Beta started waaaayyyy too early. At this rate people would have been playing beta far longer than many (most?) people would ever play live.

As for the WoW thing, meh, maybe, but the threat of consolification would be a much more horrible and likely fate. And I *know* EA would be interested in that.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #52 on: October 08, 2007, 04:12:11 PM

There's no such thing as "starting the beta too early", the longer the better. And there is no sense in shutting down the beta unless they're major changes. We're talking fundamental changes to either the backend or gameplay. Which wouldn't bode well anyway.
Signe
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Reply #53 on: October 08, 2007, 04:19:43 PM

I wonder if they're still having that live chat on MMORPG.com?  It was announced a couple weeks ago.

Quote
WAR Dev Chat
 
Please join us on Tuesday, October 9th at 7pm EST for another MMORPG.com Live Dev Chat!
 

Do you have a question for the minds behind Warhammer Online? Now’s the time to ask them, face to virtual face! Please join us in the MMORPG.com Live Chatroom starting at 7pm EST on 10/9/07 to chat with the team that's working on WAR! Bring a question, bring a friend! After the chat, be sure to stick around for Warhammer Online and other MMORPG discussion.
 
Users can also connect via any IRC client, to server irc.forthegamers.org or irc.eu.forthegamers.org (Euro). The chat will take place in #mmorpg.
 
Learn more about Warhammer Online here.

Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Modern Angel
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Reply #54 on: October 08, 2007, 04:19:54 PM

There's no such thing as "starting the beta too early", the longer the better. And there is no sense in shutting down the beta unless they're major changes. We're talking fundamental changes to either the backend or gameplay. Which wouldn't bode well anyway.

Yes and it's too late in the development cycle for this game to make sweeping changes and have it turn out well. Delays are never a big deal. Shutting down a beta portends a lot more. I can't think of a single A class MMO which has shut down beta and told folks to come back in three months. Even assuming they did the exact same thing in March for the same reasons it still sucks because that was six months ago; sweeping changes and a massive version upgrade were absolutely expected.

it's seriously not the delays or even a message of 'oops, need to shift some stuff around!' Stopping a beta is just different.
Numtini
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Reply #55 on: October 08, 2007, 04:21:21 PM

Well, the only other game I can think of that shut down beta was Wish. They made the intelligent decision to kill the whole game.

I am hoping this is to kill the instanced PVP and move on to more of a DAOC 2 RVR approach. Either way, it's pretty surprising and doesn't bode well for the original design.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
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Reply #56 on: October 08, 2007, 04:21:47 PM

Yes and it's too late in the development cycle for this game to make sweeping changes and have it turn out well. Delays are never a big deal. Shutting down a beta portends a lot more. I can't think of a single A class MMO which has shut down beta and told folks to come back in three months. Even assuming they did the exact same thing in March for the same reasons it still sucks because that was six months ago; sweeping changes and a massive version upgrade were absolutely expected.

I've seen this before on software development efforts… …and it screams "Deathmarch"…

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Trippy
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Reply #57 on: October 08, 2007, 05:39:13 PM

Prepare the elves for their release into the world!
Elves aren't even in the game yet? shocked

There's no way this game is going to make their Q1 2008 release date unless they are willing to release it in a Vanguard-like state.
Talonus
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Reply #58 on: October 08, 2007, 05:49:54 PM

Prepare the elves for their release into the world!
Elves aren't even in the game yet? shocked

There's no way this game is going to make their Q1 2008 release date unless they are willing to release it in a Vanguard-like state.


In Mythic's defense, Hibernia was a very late add to DAoC's beta too. Of course, that isn't a good sign either considering the number of problems Hibernia had at DAoC's release...
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Reply #59 on: October 08, 2007, 06:00:47 PM

That's not a defense. They should've learned from DAoC. Even Blizzard did the same mistake with WoW where the Horde-side got short-shrifted because they did the Alliance side first.
Talonus
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Reply #60 on: October 08, 2007, 06:10:25 PM

That's not a defense. They should've learned from DAoC. Even Blizzard did the same mistake with WoW where the Horde-side got short-shrifted because they did the Alliance side first.


I agree that it wasn't a great idea to implement everything so late, but balancing even basic content for two realms in earlier beta seemed troublesome enough. I can't see how they would have handled all three sides. I'm not saying it was exactly the best approach, but it isn't out of line for Mythic considering how they handled content in DAoC and it's expansion packs.
Margalis
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Reply #61 on: October 08, 2007, 06:17:49 PM

For many MMOs "beta" serves no actual purpose and it doesn't matter when you start it. Not just MMOs really, that's true of plenty of regular software as well.

The problem with a real beta is that a real beta is done when you believe that you've fixed most of the major issues and have a good handle on the rest, which means beta is essentially downtime and takes place after the core development is over. Then you sit around and wait for feedback. It represents what you consider to be a good effort in need of outside feedback.

Most betas have so many huge issues and problems in them that most of what your testers will discover are known issues. (Or issues that should be known) That also discourages people from reporting bugs when it seems that plenty of bugs are totally obvious.

I suppose that typical MMO betas are ok at testing load and at testing hardware compatibility issues but that seems to be about it.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Reply #62 on: October 08, 2007, 06:18:06 PM

Prepare the elves for their release into the world!
Elves aren't even in the game yet? shocked

There's no way this game is going to make their Q1 2008 release date unless they are willing to release it in a Vanguard-like state.


In Mythic's defense, Hibernia was a very late add to DAoC's beta too. Of course, that isn't a good sign either considering the number of problems Hibernia had at DAoC's release...

Problems doesn't even cover it.  It was horrible to be Hibernia at release. I kept trying to talk the wife into something else. Blah.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #63 on: October 08, 2007, 06:34:12 PM

The problem with a real beta is that a real beta is done when you believe that you've fixed most of the major issues and have a good handle on the rest, which means beta is essentially downtime and takes place after the core development is over. Then you sit around and wait for feedback. It represents what you consider to be a good effort in need of outside feedback.
You're absolutely correct in that MMOs don't have betas in a traditional sense, where the title is content-complete and it's all about the testing. But you're incorrect to say that they serve no purpose, that's silly and cynical and just wrong. At the very least they allow for performance profiling and stress testing, at the best they generate a wealth of data to mine to improve gameplay.
Righ
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Reply #64 on: October 08, 2007, 06:44:58 PM

Problems doesn't even cover it.  It was horrible to be Hibernia at release.

It's not been a picnic in recent years either with Hibs losing out to Hearts more often than not in the Edinburgh derby.


The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
AcidCat
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Reply #65 on: October 08, 2007, 07:22:20 PM

There's no way this game is going to make their Q1 2008 release date unless they are willing to release it in a Vanguard-like state.

If the suits have learned anything at all from the Vanguard debacle, I'd imagine the game will get pushed back to around Q3.
Kaa
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Reply #66 on: October 08, 2007, 07:25:50 PM

If the suits have learned anything at all from the Vanguard debacle, I'd imagine the game will get pushed back to around Q3.

The suits don't learn, that's why they're suits.

"But if we crack the whip harder and add some programmers, we can surely complete the game by Q1 and meet our financial projections!" X-)

Kaa
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #67 on: October 08, 2007, 07:59:19 PM

Well, I guess the guys over at FunCom just got an early Christmas present.
UnSub
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Reply #68 on: October 08, 2007, 08:10:36 PM

Well, I guess the guys over at FunCom just got an early Christmas present.

Alternatively, they can announce a delay too, safe in the knowledge that their major competitor is in the same boat.

sam, an eggplant
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Reply #69 on: October 08, 2007, 08:39:30 PM

WAR has been in beta for a long ass time and AoC is just starting this month. They're not in the same boat. I'm sure they're happy about it, though.
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