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Author Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"  (Read 335200 times)
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #35 on: October 08, 2007, 11:03:49 AM

What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 

NCSoft stockholders being weary of crappy titles impacting the main business?

I'll take a shot at translating the corporate-speak: We don't know what we want to make so we are going to use the iterative process until we add or trim enough features to make something that lots of people will buy into.  We are going to let the creatives run the show for a while and release a technically-deficient product, if we are lucky.  All we can guarnatee is that we will be able to make our rent for the next two years.  Please subscribe to our newsletter.

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Reply #36 on: October 08, 2007, 11:09:13 AM

What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 

NCSoft stockholders being weary of crappy titles impacting the main business?

I'll take a shot at translating the corporate-speak: We don't know what we want to make so we are going to use the iterative process until we add or trim enough features to make something that lots of people will buy into.  We are going to let the creatives run the show for a while and release a technically-deficient product, if we are lucky.  All we can guarnatee is that we will be able to make our rent for the next two years.  Please subscribe to our newsletter.

I'm going to take a devil's advocate position here (not really DA, since I mostly feel it's good, not bad)--what's wrong with what you just said (other than "technically-deficient", which isn't a logical conclusion of what you described, just a historical one) as a development process?

Most of the failures we see in games today is because no matter what development style they use (many actually are using SCRUM/Agile of some sort), the design is still very much waterfall--"we're making an MMO with X Y Z A B C D E F G, no matter what anyone tells us".

Assuming that they start with fun, and keep making sure it's fun along the way, what you just (derisively as far as I can tell) described is actually an outstanding way to do things.

Rumors of War
Hoax
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Reply #37 on: October 08, 2007, 11:15:17 AM

Remember when NCsoft was the great hope of the MMO-medium?  They had CoH and there was no way cars+guns wasn't going to be cool meanwhile SOE was butchering their games and nobody was reallying talking about EvE around here yet.

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Yegolev
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Reply #38 on: October 08, 2007, 11:17:23 AM

@Steven: It's a great theory, iteration.  I do it all the time, in fact, since I hate making plans or sticking to them.  My derision was directed at the feeling that they don't have anything solid right now, which means they are going to be iterating until someone kicks their door open, flips up a bullhorn and shouts "YOU SHIP GAME NOW!"  Which, of course, will be before it's ready.  In my opinion.  Hell, maybe they have a solid core idea, but I'm just going off the garbage in those quotes.  It has the quota of buzzwords, you have to admit.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #39 on: October 08, 2007, 11:32:28 AM

@Steven: It's a great theory, iteration.  I do it all the time, in fact, since I hate making plans or sticking to them.  My derision was directed at the feeling that they don't have anything solid right now, which means they are going to be iterating until someone kicks their door open, flips up a bullhorn and shouts "YOU SHIP GAME NOW!"  Which, of course, will be before it's ready.  In my opinion.  Hell, maybe they have a solid core idea, but I'm just going off the garbage in those quotes.  It has the quota of buzzwords, you have to admit.

Yes, it does, I agree :) And yes, it can "fail", in that it can give you an early out decision: "hey, you know what? this isn't fun, and no matter what we do, we're not making it any more fun."--but, that's a big advantage because many game ideas really aren't fun, and you know the old adage--you can polish a turd as much as you want, but it's still a turd when you get done.

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Trippy
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Reply #40 on: October 08, 2007, 11:40:23 AM

Back to the story:  This is an interesting change.  This studio was previously a direct branch of NCsoft.  What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 
Where does it say Carbine is now an independent studio?
Merusk
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Reply #41 on: October 08, 2007, 11:47:44 AM

Hrm.. Call me in 3 years.  We might know what they're working on by then and I can make a decision on weather or not to care at that point.  Hell, we still don't know what Lum's working on and it's BEEN 3 years, hasn't it?

I do find the art amusingly reminiscent of Samwise's, however.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Lum
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Reply #42 on: October 08, 2007, 01:25:50 PM

Hell, we still don't know what Lum's working on and it's BEEN 3 years, hasn't it?

Year and a half.
Merusk
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Reply #43 on: October 08, 2007, 06:58:34 PM

Aw fuck.  I've inherited my mother's sense of time.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #44 on: October 08, 2007, 10:29:20 PM

Back to the story:  This is an interesting change.  This studio was previously a direct branch of NCsoft.  What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 

Hmm, looking at the site, this is NCsoft NA's special ex-WoW dev division that has now been turned into a separate entity. Perhaps this is because NCsoft isn't seeing TR as a saviour that is going to see the money just roll in and want to divest some of the risk of internal development. Perhaps because the WoW employees have been employed since 2005 and are yet to have even come close to releasing anything (especially given that interview, where many words were used to say not much).

Perhaps this is what NCsoft has learned is the safer path - to support external studios rather than to pour money into internal development in NA.

Lucas
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Reply #45 on: October 25, 2007, 04:37:50 AM

Carbine studios: "Now with more dancing!" :P

(Interview with Jeremy Gaffney and Tim Cain: nothing new is revealed, of course, beside a certain fetish love for dancing, or something like that)

http://troikachronicles.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/carbine-studios-interview/

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Venkman
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Reply #46 on: October 25, 2007, 07:41:32 AM

Back to the story:  This is an interesting change.  This studio was previously a direct branch of NCsoft.  What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 
Where does it say Carbine is now an independent studio?


Seconded.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #47 on: October 25, 2007, 08:33:53 AM

What prompted the change from being part of NCsoft to being an independent studio published by NCsoft? 

NCSoft stockholders being weary of crappy titles impacting the main business?

I'll take a shot at translating the corporate-speak: We don't know what we want to make so we are going to use the iterative process until we add or trim enough features to make something that lots of people will buy into.  We are going to let the creatives run the show for a while and release a technically-deficient product, if we are lucky.  All we can guarnatee is that we will be able to make our rent for the next two years.  Please subscribe to our newsletter.

I'm going to take a devil's advocate position here (not really DA, since I mostly feel it's good, not bad)--what's wrong with what you just said (other than "technically-deficient", which isn't a logical conclusion of what you described, just a historical one) as a development process?

Most of the failures we see in games today is because no matter what development style they use (many actually are using SCRUM/Agile of some sort), the design is still very much waterfall--"we're making an MMO with X Y Z A B C D E F G, no matter what anyone tells us".

Assuming that they start with fun, and keep making sure it's fun along the way, what you just (derisively as far as I can tell) described is actually an outstanding way to do things.

I have to ask. How do you Start with fun?

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
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Tige
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Reply #48 on: October 25, 2007, 09:26:16 AM

I have to ask. How do you Start with fun?

It's easy, just say it.  If, at first, you find it a bit difficult to get it out, start with some of the easier lines of bullshit er hype game development.

"next generation", "sandbox", "never before seen...", "programmed to play on a wide range of machines", "masterpiece", "brought to you by the makers of....", "we listened", "imaginative", "casual", "built for the casual and the hardcore player". 

Soon you'll find yourself convincingly using words like "truly" and "exciting" everyday!  Once you start it just gets easier and easier!  Go ahead try some of your own!
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #49 on: October 25, 2007, 09:36:46 AM

I have to ask. How do you Start with fun?

It's easy, just say it.  If, at first, you find it a bit difficult to get it out, start with some of the easier lines of bullshit er hype game development.

"next generation", "sandbox", "never before seen...", "programmed to play on a wide range of machines", "masterpiece", "brought to you by the makers of....", "we listened", "imaginative", "casual", "built for the casual and the hardcore player". 

Soon you'll find yourself convincingly using words like "truly" and "exciting" everyday!  Once you start it just gets easier and easier!  Go ahead try some of your own!

No, i would really like to know. How do you start with fun?

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Simond
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Reply #50 on: October 25, 2007, 10:18:01 AM

Design a small alpha that contains all of the core mechanics.
Have people test it.
Ask them: "Is this fun Y/N?"
Then ask them: "Why/Why not?"
Use answers to refine game.
Repeat.

Then expand the boundaries of the game.

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Reply #51 on: October 25, 2007, 10:55:41 AM

I have to ask. How do you Start with fun?

It's easy, just say it.  If, at first, you find it a bit difficult to get it out, start with some of the easier lines of bullshit er hype game development.

"next generation", "sandbox", "never before seen...", "programmed to play on a wide range of machines", "masterpiece", "brought to you by the makers of....", "we listened", "imaginative", "casual", "built for the casual and the hardcore player". 

Soon you'll find yourself convincingly using words like "truly" and "exciting" everyday!  Once you start it just gets easier and easier!  Go ahead try some of your own!

No, i would really like to know. How do you start with fun?

Ask right up front, "What kind of experience, at the end of the day and stripped of all secondary in-game systems, are we trying to give our players?". Then tell that story to an 8-year old (or a nearby gaming journalist, if that's easier to find without scaring mothers in the local playground). Ask them if it sounds fun. If "No", start again from scratch.

Venkman
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Reply #52 on: October 25, 2007, 02:37:21 PM

Prototype early and often. "Fun" is, to most, an amalgamation of past experiences. So draw up your references, coble something together, tune the hell out of it, vertical slice, go. But that's mostly only going to see you through things, like some combat and puzzlers, maybe some UI things.

Where things generally fall about is when people start asking things like "what do we do at the end of the game", "how long does it take to achieve X", "how can we have 200 different completely different and nigh-unbalanceable classes because of the continuing niave belief that more is better".
Sutro
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Reply #53 on: October 25, 2007, 06:25:00 PM

I thirst for the game that announces itself with open beta applications, launches into playable beta within a month, and then releases six months after announcement.


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Reply #54 on: October 25, 2007, 09:47:46 PM

I thirst for the game that announces itself with open beta applications, launches into playable beta within a month, and then releases six months after announcement.

I don't care if they launch 12 or 24 months after beta starts, but I don't think MMOs can launch official community sites 12 months before they even have the concept art finished anymore. Pre-launch community has precious little value if it disintergrates when you announce what the game is actually going to be like. It's only the community that launches the game that counts.

Lucas
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Reply #55 on: August 24, 2008, 02:20:37 PM

Now this is some serious, professional....

RISEEEE!!!!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS  ACK!
---

Actually, no, no news on the horizon, but today I was checking their (lots of) job opportunities and this caught my eye:

SPAWNER

Carbine Studios, a software development company focused on making high-quality, cutting-edge, and conceptually innovative Massively Multiplayer Games, is seeking a talented Spawner to work on an upcoming PC MMO in their Orange County, CA development studio.
 
Responsibilities
∑         Is responsible for the spawning of creatures within the MMO game environment
∑         Collaborates with system and AI designers on monster and group mob creation.
∑         Works closely with the level design team and the quest design team to make sure spawn groups support the needs of the game levels.
∑         Attends and participates in design meetings
∑         Intimate knowledge of game levels; day-to-day adjustment of spawn groups based on changes in design
∑         Provides feedback and suggestions to design team
 
Qualifications
∑         Minimum of 2 years professional experience working in a design role
∑         Must have shipped at least one AAA quality product working in a design capacity
∑         Must have experience in RPG and/or Action Adventure genres
∑         MMO experience highly desired: MMO knowledge essential
∑         Strong passion for games and excellent knowledge of video games, particularly RPGs
∑         Strong decision-making and organizational skills
∑         Ability to learn and use proprietary editor and tools for spawning
 
Pluses
∑         Love of pen and paper RPGs, board games and comic books
∑         Avid MMO player
 
A casual work environment, comprehensive benefits and competitive salary are all part of the package.
------


"So, Bob, what do you do for a living?"

"I work on computer games. I'm a EVIL SPAWNER".  awesome, for real awesome, for real

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Reply #56 on: August 24, 2008, 08:29:00 PM

It's nice to see a MMO studio where job titles and player classes could be used interchangeably.

Bungee
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Reply #57 on: August 25, 2008, 07:00:22 AM

Can anybody explain to a not-so-skilled in "business english" guy what exactly "competitive salary" means?

It sounds like ehm, something I wouldn't want to work for?

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Vinadil
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Reply #58 on: August 25, 2008, 09:11:19 AM

Competitive seems to mean "about the same as you would make at other game development studios of equal size/status in the same position."
Draegan
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Reply #59 on: August 25, 2008, 10:48:55 AM

Tree-Fitty.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #60 on: August 25, 2008, 11:21:00 AM


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Reply #61 on: August 25, 2008, 09:14:41 PM

Since this thread has been necro'd...how many studios is this now with "Ex-Blizzard" staff? Anyone have a running tally on how many playable, fun games any of these studios have produced?

Looks to me Blizzard is firing all the right people.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Hutch
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Reply #62 on: August 25, 2008, 11:24:23 PM

Since this thread has been necro'd...how many studios is this now with "Ex-Blizzard" staff? Anyone have a running tally on how many playable, fun games any of these studios have produced?

Looks to me Blizzard is firing all the right people.

Not only have there been studios that haven't produced a playable fun game yet...

...there is at least one studio formed of now-second-generation-former-Blizzard developers.

Mmmm. The worm turns, devouring as it goes. Where will Carbine's developers wind up? Check back in a year, when we second-generation necro this thread!



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Reply #63 on: August 25, 2008, 11:49:31 PM

Okay so basically none.

I'm in the wrong field. You think I could get a ton of venture capital to piss away if I first got some scrubby marketing, management, or bean counting job at Blizzard and triumphantly quit about a half year later so I can have this pedigree of being "ex-Blizzard"?

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Margalis
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Reply #64 on: August 26, 2008, 12:29:07 AM

Aren't the Guild Wars guys ex-Blizzard?

It always annoys me when a plus for a job is that you like that genre of game. I think that sometimes it makes sense to hire people who don't like that genre of game because they can see through the genre-convention BS. Hire a bunch of dudes who love WOW and they'll make a WOW clone. Hire a bunch of people who aren't fans of MMORPGs and you'll get something interesting.

Obviously you don't want a bunch of people who hate their jobs and the game they are working on, but looking for drooling fans doesn't strile me as a good idea unless you are trying to create a knockoff.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Trippy
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Reply #65 on: August 26, 2008, 02:33:46 AM

Aren't the Guild Wars guys ex-Blizzard?
Yes they are.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #66 on: September 22, 2008, 04:55:50 PM

A level 99 Lead Quest Designer sits before you, wearing nerdy glasses. The wall behind him looks like he's going to be shot down right after his last words.

Do you:


A) Compassionately watch and listen to what he has to say ;

B) Cowardly run away, and watch something else (NSFW!!!) ;

C) Honourably tell the original poster of this thread to STFU about a game that will be released in approx. 7 years or more.


Choose wisely, O' Seeker.  ACK!



" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Lucas
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Reply #67 on: July 28, 2011, 04:46:49 PM

Whoa.....RISEEEEEE AGAIN!!!!!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Carbine Studios might finally unveil their MMOG at Gamescom, in mid-august (yeah, yeah, of this year, meaning 2011 :P):

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/07/28/ncsofts-carbine-studios-to-reveal-new-mmo-at-gamescom/

New website is online:

http://www.carbinestudios.com/en

At the time I'm writing this, if you don't put the "/en" it will direct you to the old website. There is a new blog post by Jeremy Gaffney, executive producer (fhttp://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,41034/).


- They worked in  "stealth" mode for a very long time, considering when they opened the software house website (october 2007). Since then, only vague interviews. The only thing we know, beside the project having Fallout's (and Troika's) Tim Cain at the helm (well, designers' helm, at least), is that it should combine sci-fi and fantasy elements. Also, probably a strong focus on narrative and story, akin to Bioware. That's it.

EDIT

An interesting link I found among Massively's comments to the above mentioned article:

http://verticasino.net/2011/06/ncsoft-has-not-really-known-to-be-gentle/#more-39

Quote
Yet a very discrete project, also based on a futuristic world, continued to be fueled for years by NCsoft. Buoyed by former developers of World of Warcraft, the MMO Carbine had hitherto contented to publish excerpts from the soundtrack and the very rare interviews with its developers were kindly understand that the time was in total silence.
However, last May, IGN was able to meet at the LOGIN Conference, Mitch Ferguson, producer and lead designer at Carbine Studios system and very discreet about the project by NCsoft. Ferguson lifted a corner of the veil in us by saying a little about the context of its MMO: Itís a fantasy world with spaceships and space.
When I say fantastic, it mean that we kept all the traditional archetypes of fantastic games but not their breeds. So there will be no dwarves but there are great people and other small and we have magic and swords but all in a sci-fi world so there will be electronics, robots and spaceships.
It also reveals that his game will not forget the social side of online games: I think what is most lacking (in WoW and other games lately) what are the social systems. MMOs are really missing good tools guilds, skill shops depth of thing people could do outside of combat.
We have started a game designer (Note: Victoria Moran, we were talking a few months ago) whose work full time and work on social play-anything that will make the players talk to each other. Another avenue towards greater social massively multiplayer games could be dedicated networks (Translatorís note: like Facebook or Twitter) what weíre trying to do is make it really easy to find people with whom to play, stay contact with people you like and you can play the game from anywhere outside the game.

Oh, and....ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Cain

Cain left Carbine Studios in July 2011 for unknown reasons.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 04:55:03 PM by Lucas »

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Malakili
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Reply #68 on: July 28, 2011, 05:16:10 PM



Trippy
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Reply #69 on: July 28, 2011, 05:18:57 PM

Cain left Carbine Studios in July 2011 for unknown reasons.
[/quote
I smell another TR.
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