Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"

[Falconeer]

What is important is to keep exposing and calling out sexist bullshit, in all industries, in all instances of society. No one intends to win stupid forum fights on f13, but this crap has to be exposed every time.
There's a lot of people who give a shit, and it's growing. Get over it.

[Ingmar]

I'm with Nevermore and Falc. The character designs arent quite in the Tera "embarrassed to be a gamer" territory but they're pretty bad andtthere's no reason to not at least provide some choice. It isnt enough by itself to stop me from trying the game like it was, again, for Tera, but it is a significant minus.

[MediumHigh]

Far too amoral to care if people are offended.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hyper-sexualisation and sexism are two different things, FYI.

[Jherad]

As much as I do agree with Falc that the hypersexualisation of female characters needs to be challenged, constantly, I think the article was silly and focused far too much on easily dismissible 'things that are totally not realistic in this made-up videogame'.

I expect that rather than deliberately creating sexualised female characters marketing to a male teen audience, they've basically hired a lead artist heavily influenced by old comic fantasy style (he lists his influences as including Battle Chasers and Tank Girl), and the wildstar dev team have happily (and thoughtlessly) gone with the flow. Because the team is a bunch of nerdy gamer boys.

If you're going to tackle that problem - and it IS still a problem, then ultimately dev studios need to hire more women in lead roles.

[Paelos]

I don't think the game itself will garner anywhere near this kind of emotional response.

[MediumHigh]

Lolz. Its rofl worthy righteous indignation. Where all these warriors of sexism with regard to porn? Which probably has more to do with objectifying woman than any evil video game artist can dream of.

[Jherad]

Porn of course being identical to video games, nursery schools, umbrellas and the price of fish.

False equivalence HO!

[Lakov_Sanite]

HO!

I find your terminology to be offensive.

[Jherad]

In the festive spirit, and to avoid angering Fabricated, I'll rephrase as:

Moral Equivalence, ho ho ho!

[Sjofn]

http://robothyena.tumblr.com/post/69851398783/wildstar-character-design-female-objectification

Enjoy~  

Holy shit, the races in this game are awful looking.

But yeah, someone writes one of these stupid articles about how game designers should waste their time rendering dumpy female models no one would pick every time one of these games comes out.

It's the draenei all over again, and frankly that is a strike against it as far as I'm concerned. I've played female dwarves, tauren and orcs, , I would've killed for the beta version of the female trolls in WoW, if the charr didn't have a completely pants on head run I'd play that, and as far as I can tell, female asura are just as popular as the male ones without a set of rocket tits. I'd play a "dumpy" rock woman whose tits did not happen to jiggle ridiculously from the mere act of breathing (that was the point where I went "whaaaat" with them). There is also a world of difference between "every single female has to be some sort of ridiculous wank fantasy" and "zomg no hot wimminz 4 anyone."

But you know, it's cool. Dudes are fine with it, so what's the problem, am i rite? It can't be that this is something tiresome and having to decide precisely what degree of sexism one feels like enduring to participate in their hobby every fucking day isn't something that might eventually get so fucking frustrating one might feel moved to legitimately call it out. And it can't be people keep calling it out because it's still shitty and still annoying! No no, it's all for winning internet points from strangers.

Lolz. Its rofl worthy righteous indignation. Where all these warriors of sexism with regard to porn? Which probably has more to do with objectifying woman than any evil video game artist can dream of.

If you seriously don't think there are people who have similar concerns with porn and how it treats women within it, you are (to my total lack of surprise) not really paying very much attention, because it probably doesn't affect you in the least.

[Sjofn]

And by the way:

There's an easy fix here.  They just need to make female Chua.  No way in hell they could pull it off, unless they just broke the 4th wall, invoked the 34th rule, and, well, actually pull it off.  

I am 95% sure that the reason the chua are "monogendered" (which of course in this case, means "male") is because they couldn't figure out a way to slap a pair of tits on them without giving the game away.

[Nevermore]

You know, I give GW2 a lot of shit for a whole lot of faults but I think they did a really good job on the Charr and Asura character designs.  Normally I hate playing small races but it turns out that my little Asura Mesmer lady is one of my favorite characters.  Amazing how a game where they don't glue boobs on everything female could still be popular.  And also note that refraining from sexing up every female model isn't the same as making every female model fugly, as though it were some kind of binary choice.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Porn of course being identical to video games, nursery schools, umbrellas and the price of fish.

False equivalence HO!

In a real response to your comment.  Forget porn, people bitching about wildstar need to look at games like TERA first.  Wildstar is comical and fetishistic in the way of jessica rabbit but games like TERA are serious wank material hyper sexualized versions of things. 

Seriously....just play TERA and get your outrage fix one someone who deserves it.

[Ingmar]

Sorry, but A being worse than B, does not get B a free pass.

[Lakov_Sanite]

A...B

It's not "oh one is bad but both are bad!"  that is the line of reasoning of someone who doesn't really wanna do work, they just want to be outraged. 

In this scenario wildstar wouldn't even be, B.  Even in the realm of video games it's a pretty distant Q or T, it's pretty fucking far down the list.  Even in the realm of MMO's it's not even in the top five.

[tmp]

I'm with Nevermore and Falc. The character designs arent quite in the Tera "embarrassed to be a gamer" territory but they're pretty bad andtthere's no reason to not at least provide some choice. It isnt enough by itself to stop me from trying the game like it was, again, for Tera, but it is a significant minus.

Tbh, I'm rolling my eyes more at the rock people granted breasts with lovingly applied jiggle physics, than at the Tera characters.

edit: also, that's one of the laziest set of race designs I've seen in a while. The female bodies at least, they look pretty much like single template was applied to all.

[tmp]

A...B

It's not "oh one is bad but both are bad!"  that is the line of reasoning of someone who doesn't really wanna do work, they just want to be outraged.  

The line of reasoning is actually more like "one is bad enough and another is even worse". Which seems sensible enough to me.

No one wants to be outraged, so let's cease that bullshit. If someone finds the "merely" 'bad enough' irritating and worth talking about then that's because that shit doesn't meet their personal standards, not that they lowered these standards on the fly and on purpose, just to have something to be angry about.

[Jherad]

The line of reasoning is actually more like "one is bad enough and another is even worse". Which seems sensible enough to me.

Except that equating the over-sexualised depictions of female characters in a video game to the objectification of women in an aid to masturbation and claiming that you cannot decry one without as strenuously denouncing the other , is pants-on-head retarded.

You can argue that both are bad. You can even argue that both are symptoms of a wider problem. But dragging an argument into some pitiful 'but first won't you condemn the...' bullhockey is just silly.



Edit: needed more bold 

[MediumHigh]

My issue is that it doesn't matter. Fact is we've had a doubling of girl gamers (and when I say girl gamer I mean woman that play games that are mostly played by men, and I only make the distinction for the sake of argument and not to call a girl who plays bejeweled and the sims "less" gamers) every decade despite graphics getting better at slutting up characters. So you either have a knee-jerk reaction to any sexualization, and which my response is so what? Or you simply bitching for the sake of bitching, which my response is...welp? We've been celebrating the over-sexualization of our culture since the 60's and now we want to slam the breaks? For video games? Oh please, the debate is pointless because we're coming full circle. Our male characters will suddenly look a lot less like kratos/marcus fenix and more like legolas, or whatever metro-sexual nancy boy that seem to moisten 13 year old panties. And oh yes its already happening.

[tmp]

The line of reasoning is actually more like "one is bad enough and another is even worse". Which seems sensible enough to me.

Except that equating the over-sexualised depictions of female characters in a video game to the objectification of women in an aid to masturbation and claiming that you cannot decry one without as strenuously denouncing the other , is pants-on-head retarded.

I'm afraid you lost me here. If your point is that the "if you complain about video games then you better be complaining about porn too" from upthread was dumb then i'll certainly agree with it, which is why I don't get the "except". I was replying to Lakov's post which to me read like "if you claim that both video games *and* porn are bad then you are just lazy and want to be outraged about something, anything", which was a view I disagree with.

[tmp]

My issue is that it doesn't matter. Fact is we've had a doubling of girl gamers (...) every decade despite graphics getting better at slutting up characters. So you either have a knee-jerk reaction to any sexualization, and which my response is so what? Or you simply bitching for the sake of bitching, which my response is...welp?

Or possibility #3 -- that the growth you talk about has been occuring, precisely as you put it, despite the factors like "slutting up the characters". And if such factors are pointed out and removed, the growth in question may be even bigger. Which, as far as motives go, is very far from "bitching for the sake of bitching" in my book.

[MediumHigh]

My issue is that it doesn't matter. Fact is we've had a doubling of girl gamers (...) every decade despite graphics getting better at slutting up characters. So you either have a knee-jerk reaction to any sexualization, and which my response is so what? Or you simply bitching for the sake of bitching, which my response is...welp?

Or possibility #3 -- that the growth you talk about has been occuring, precisely as you put it, despite the factors like "slutting up the characters". And if such factors are pointed out and removed, the growth in question may be even bigger. Which, as far as motives go, is very far from "bitching for the sake of bitching" in my book.

Have you been outside lately? MORE SEX!! has sold more shit. Surprise! And strangely...not despite the sex. I mean your essentially arguing that it's unfair that guys are specific target for eye candy. When in fact not only is that NOT being reversed but trends say we're going to do the exact same for the growing female audience...that like being sold sex just as much as guys do. La-gasp.

[Teleku]

http://robothyena.tumblr.com/post/69851398783/wildstar-character-design-female-objectification

Enjoy~ 

That was some weapons grade trolling right there.  Thread has been shitted up beyond salvation.  Very well done.

[tmp]

I mean your essentially arguing that it's unfair that guys are specific target for eye candy. When in fact not only is that NOT being reversed but trends say we're going to do the exact same for the growing female audience...that like being sold sex just as much as guys do. La-gasp.

No, I'm essentially arguing this sort of lazy, thoughtless pandering is a shitty practice that does no favours not only the people who are on receiving end of it, but the industry overall. Your counter-argument how it's only going to get more widespread and how that somehow makes it okay... isn't, really.

La-gasp indeed.

[Jherad]

If your point is that the "if you complain about video games then you better be complaining about porn too" from upthread was dumb then i'll certainly agree with it, which is why I don't get the "except".

Yes, sorry - I lost track of things a little. Dumb argument was dumb.

Aaaanyway.

On a more mundane note, I'm rather disappointed in the Engineer reveal and gameplay videos. That kind of class is normally right up my alley, but I'm finding very little to love about it. The pets seem to be one-trick ponies (other than autoattacking, each has a single ability that can be manually activated by hitting the ability that summoned them), and the class doesn't otherwise seem to stand out as an archetype.

I'm probably just suffering from the same can't-recreate-my-first-mmo-high ennui that has permeated this thread (and F13) for a while, but I'm getting a similar feeling from Wildstar now that I did with Rift. Technically nice, but...

Burnt out gamers.

[Threash]

If your point is that the "if you complain about video games then you better be complaining about porn too" from upthread was dumb then i'll certainly agree with it, which is why I don't get the "except".

Yes, sorry - I lost track of things a little. Dumb argument was dumb.

Aaaanyway.

On a more mundane note, I'm rather disappointed in the Engineer reveal and gameplay videos. That kind of class is normally right up my alley, but I'm finding very little to love about it. The pets seem to be one-trick ponies (other than autoattacking, each has a single ability that can be manually activated by hitting the ability that summoned them), and the class doesn't otherwise seem to stand out as an archetype.

I'm probably just suffering from the same can't-recreate-my-first-mmo-high ennui that has permeated this thread (and F13) for a while, but I'm getting a similar feeling from Wildstar now that I did with Rift. Technically nice, but...

Burnt out gamers.

But the robot faces man!

[Hoax]

The idea that some of you believe this discussion is more important than one about "how cartoony is too cartoony" or "how big should shoulderpads be really?" just makes me feel bad you guys.

[Paelos]

Hypersexualization of whatever is a vote with your wallet issue. I don't think it's more complicated than that. I've certainly not played games before because they were creepy. TERA I'm looking at your direction.

[tazelbain]

The idea that some of you believe this discussion is more important than one about "how cartoony is too cartoony" or "how big should shoulderpads be really?" just makes me feel bad you guys.

The idea that you think that you feeling bad for anyone means enough that you bothered to type it is funny. "I hereby declare you people feel too self-important!" Who gives a fuck.

[Venkman]

Hypersexualization of whatever is a vote with your wallet issue.

This. This is the end of the every time it comes up. One can wish it to be otherwise, but it is not. Too many billions of dollars continually prove it.

[tmp]

Hypersexualization of whatever is a vote with your wallet issue. I don't think it's more complicated than that. I've certainly not played games before because they were creepy. TERA I'm looking at your direction.

I think some vocal input on what exactly you're voting with that wallet is quite required tho, otherwise the devs who missed out on your money are just left there scratching heads and concluding perhaps they didn't copy WoW close enough (or in more ironic result, that the rock tits weren't given enough jiggle)

[Paelos]

Sure you can say why you're voting with your wallet. But in the end, they will do metrics on this kind of thing, pay a consulting firm, and still get it wrong. It's the gaming industry, it's not a real business in the traditional sense.

[Megrim]

Gameplay looks shit.

[MediumHigh]

Or Hypersexualization sells more than it doesn't sell so...yeah....

Reason's I don't read most comics. Bad writing, terrible plots, crappy characterizations, convoluted continuity, and sometime shock value just to have shock value. Like "mature" comics simply being an excuse to splash as much gore and violence on the page. A character like Harley Quin isn't bad because of her slutty goth look, but because she her slutty goth look sums up the exact opposite of what the character actually is. Which is a fun loving doe eyed abuse victim, which is the polar opposite of s&m suicide junky being paraded in the new 52.

Reason's I don't play mmo's. Crappy stories, crappy gameplay, crappy mechanics, soul sucking end game, non-existent end game, and pvp that either looks like a boring rave party or mouth breather-ville. Unpractical armor on female character models? Yeah I'm too busy uninstalling games for important reasons like lacking the foresight to allow me to reroll my stats for free. How many people you guess quit age of conan because of the number of nipples? Soft guess? Zero.

I'm guessing the reason for not playing Wildstar will probably have more to do with the mating habbits of sex bots and rock monsters this time around.