Austin Game Conference Report

[Margalis]

- Why do risks, since the public doesn't buy them or subscribe to them anyway? First to market is a lie, it's second to market who cleans up. This strategy works wonders for Blizzard. Why be someone else's canary in a coal mine?

Maybe they just aren't buying the risks you put out.

They bought UO. They bought CoH. Street Fighter 2 was first to market (competitive fighting game, yes there were fighting games before) was very new, and became the most popular arcade game of all time. (Or maybe second after Pac-Man. And yes, even though there is a "2" in the title it was a first to market design)

---

About player skill: player skill can be ALL sorts of things. First of all, there is nothing wrong with twitch skill, and twitch skill can take a lot of different forms. Are racing games "twitch" games? Sure, you steer in real time, but i don't think physical coordination is the main skill there.

What about planning? What about using your brain during the activity? People consider fighting games twitch games, but the best players are the ones with the best gameplan, the ones who know their characters and matchups well, stay cool under pressure, judge distances well, don't get easily frustrated....AND have great execution. But in the fighting game world the people with the *best* execution don't win tournaments, they make combo videos.

Any sort of strategy or planning is a player skill. As Schild said, what about a game where you build a deck and wander around fighting other people with it? There is skill there in the deck building and the playing of the deck, with no twitch involved at all. What about game where you command armies with turn based combat? (On some sort of timer or something pseudo-real-time) Again, there would be skill in creating an army and in-battle strategy.

I find that in a lot of MMORPGs, both the thinking part and the twitch part are brain-dead. When you see a flash, hit some hotkey - that's the "twitch" part. Real twitch games have a lot of different dimensions of skill, not just press button. That's the equivalent of those old "Night Trap" style games, which no normal person would consider a twitch game.

Without departing too far from current MMORPGs, I can think of a lot of strategy aspects that could be introduced. Strategy comes from tradeoffs: there are multiple possibilities that all seem OK at first glance. Strategy is decision making.

Having things like "ice spells work well against fire creatures" doesn't add any strategy or depth. I learn that, and from then on use ice. There was no real decision to be made.

[AOFanboi]

Other than that? Card Games. I'd love to travel around in an MMO world with crafting and whatnot, but PVP was Magic: The Gathering.

You just described this game. Note that it's one of the extremely few online games for the 'Cube.

[AOFanboi]

Sci fi setting, each player picks a faction/empire when they start or they can be independents (most likely pirates etc). Several branches to choose from for career advancement: Military (Navy , Army), Merchant, diplomat etc...Factions are player run, advancement is through skill and peer review (not by killing more womp rats)...Real time space simulation ...multi crewed capital ships, fighters etc.....ground based combat for the grunts again FPS style...roleplaying (!) encouraging but not enforced..Each faction get number of planets, each produces stuff for merchants to trade, diplos can arrange treaties / pacts / trade policies etc...Neutral planets between territories for factions to fight over..Pirates, occasional alien invasion etc...

Sounds like a description of the old pen and paper RPG Traveller. Perhaps someone could get the rights to do a MMOG based on it, but it neither has the name recognition or usable system fit for a MMORPG.

(As an aside, the RPG inspired the creation of Elite, and hence - by implication - EVE Online.)

[Shannow]

Sci fi setting, each player picks a faction/empire when they start or they can be independents (most likely pirates etc). Several branches to choose from for career advancement: Military (Navy , Army), Merchant, diplomat etc...Factions are player run, advancement is through skill and peer review (not by killing more womp rats)...Real time space simulation ...multi crewed capital ships, fighters etc.....ground based combat for the grunts again FPS style...roleplaying (!) encouraging but not enforced..Each faction get number of planets, each produces stuff for merchants to trade, diplos can arrange treaties / pacts / trade policies etc...Neutral planets between territories for factions to fight over..Pirates, occasional alien invasion etc...

Sounds like a description of the old pen and paper RPG Traveller. Perhaps someone could get the rights to do a MMOG based on it, but it neither has the name recognition or usable system fit for a MMORPG.

(As an aside, the RPG inspired the creation of Elite, and hence - by implication - EVE Online.)

Actually its more StarWars/StarTrek orientated, pretty much based off the Trek mushes I played around 10 years ago (no Im not a trekkie). The emphasis is more on the empire vs empire stuff though players may certainly enjoy playing as independents.
CRS , the makes of ww2ol, actually either planned to make a traveller mmolg or owned the rights to it, something like that.


Or another thing to do with 50mil? Buy a battletech license + the original mecha from harmony gold (warhammer etc)....use an engine similar to planetside or ww2ol (long viewable distance)....multiple planets...jump ships, drop ships, aerospace..woo that'd be fun.

[Xilren's Twin]

Other than that? Card Games. I'd love to travel around in an MMO world with crafting and whatnot, but PVP was Magic: The Gathering.

You just described this game. Note that it's one of the extremely few online games for the 'Cube.

Too anime. :-)

Actually, I would pay good money for a mmorpg version of Magic the Gathering where your avatar can travel the world in search of spells and combat is handled via duel.  This is a much greater extention of GW idea of only picking 8 spells from your book for any given battle; making a 60 card deck from your entire collection of thousands of choices, or a 40 card deck from a limited card set is a whole sub game inself and the variety of play formats allow for new players with decent skills to compete with the mtg catasses known as Mr Suitcase (the people who have 4 of every rare card).

The varous expansions are have thematic flavor which would allow for easy of making a distinct and varied game world.  And travel from area to area could entail new play choices; i.e. if you want to a theme block area to gain those cards you would have to duel in those formats (block  constructed or block limited).

Hell, you could have crafting which equates to making your on unique spell cards i.e. take an existing spell like Hill Giant and give it a new name, flavor text, picture (or 3d representation if they went this route) for some cost.  Perhaps make this a character skill that has to be practiced with low power/common spells before you gain enought experience to work on uncommon and eventually rares ;).  Then you can trade those cards, use em, sell em, but who wouldn;t want to play with a Schild's Fabulous Hand Filler instead of the old Howling Mine?  Same card function, world of player investment difference.

You can still have things like player housing with plenty of props, avatar customization, guilds, player stores and economy, quests and plotlines just fitted around the concept of magic planeswalkers.  And if they made a 3d implemntation of the duel itself where you would see your critters and sells flying in glorius eye candy...

Sorry, must wipe drool off my chin.  A guy can dream can't he?

Xilren

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Bartle may have been Christopher Columbus, Mark Jacobs may have been Paul Revere, and Raph could very well be Benjamin Franklin....but in the minds of many Garriott is the George Washington of MMOGs. I'll give Bruce the John Hancock role.....

If Bartle is Christopher Columbus, would that make the author of the first multiplayer graphic dungeon game on Plato in 1975 or 1976 the "Amerigo Vespucci"?  The guy who actually found it first, but most people now think the next guy was first?  Works for me.

Of course Amerigo at least got the continents named after him, whereas the first dungeon game author on Plato, well, I don't even know his name and I bet nobody else here does either.  Kind of a shame.

  -- Dr. Cat

Conclusion: Raph Koster is the Thomas Paine of MMORPGS.

[SirBruce]

Now the hard part is delivering PvP that is not 100% combat that is also fun and engaging for the player.

No, that's easy.  But you just can't do it well in a fantasy MMORPG.

I'm specifically trying to make fantasy PvE MMORPG better.  If you want to do PvP, there are better mediums.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

Sounds like a description of the old pen and paper RPG Traveller. Perhaps someone could get the rights to do a MMOG based on it, but it neither has the name recognition or usable system fit for a MMORPG.

(As an aside, the RPG inspired the creation of Elite, and hence - by implication - EVE Online.)

Playnet/CRS currently has the rights to the Traveller MMOG.  Unfortunately, we have no money to make it at this time. :(

As for a useable system, there are several editions of Traveller, plus D20 Traveller, GURPS Traveller, and probably some others I'm not aware of.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

Actually, I would pay good money for a mmorpg version of Magic the Gathering where your avatar can travel the world in search of spells and combat is handled via duel.

A lot of players asked for this back during the days of the Microprose Magic: the Gathering game, which was basically a single-player version of the above idea.

Bruce

[Samwise]

So, design a method to allow a lot of user created content to be implemented into a gamewold, but has to be vetted by the dev shop somehow.

Here's one that my officemate and I were throwing around in a bullshit session yesterday.  Give each player a "zone" of their very own.  It starts out as a vacant lot, or a forest, or whatever is appropriate to your game's milieu.  Allow the player to purchase items to put in that zone to create an adventuring setting.

This has echoes of SWG's player cities/housing, but nobody went adventuring in those.  Imagine that the purchaseable items can include things like static/dynamic spawns - for example, you can make your forest include an orc ambush.  There's some sort of basic scripting language that'll let you give the orcs preprogrammed behavior and battle cries.

How do we balance this?  Apply the principles of an economic strategy game to it.  Think of the placeable spawns as an investment - you go out and adventure in other zones for a while (or maybe just harvest the natural resources of your zone, like lumber or deer hide or whatever) to make money to buy the spawn, and once you've bought it, it becomes a potential source of income for you, since you can whack the orcs to make money.  Of course, if you want to buy the next big thing (like that placeable red dragon cave that spawns tons of loot), you'll get there faster by adventuring in higher level zones (like your neighbor's red dragon cave), so the temptation to sit and whack orcs all day will be low.

Getting away from combat, another type of placeable might be a tavern, complete with scriptable NPCs, placeable furniture, et cetera.  Same principle applies - you go make money somehow, buy a tavern, and then the tavern generates revenue for you as people come in and hang out or get quests from your NPCs (as the zone owner, you're the one who designs the quests, of course... perhaps there's a hook in there to cooperate with the owner of another zone so that your NPC can send a player on a quest to that zone, which involves interacting with some player-placed object in the other zone).

Sure, people will create zones filled with l33t-speaking orcs, but that happens no matter what - better to let the talented people have the tools rather than deny them the tools because the shmucks will abuse them.  As long as the tools are designed with economic balance in mind (e.g. any "money machine" you place takes a long time to pay for itself), and it's easy for players to avoid crappy zones, it won't really damage the game any.

The way that this bullshit session started originally was with the notion of making a P2P MMOG with player-created content.  Let each player host and populate their own zone (like a NWN server) and establish "portals" between them.  In one sense this is a big risk, but in another it reduces risk, because now you don't have to invest in as much server hardware to make your MMOG run.

[Ubiq]

So, they passed those days discussing in those conferences, while I passed my time reading and discussing in the beta forums of WoW. I'm really wondering who learnt more.

So instead of going and listening to seasoned, experienced developers with experience on dozens of different massively multiplayer games, you instead went and listened to the same fanboys you could have listened to the other 363 days of the year, talking about a game many of them can't even play yet?  Those posts would have persisted while you were out of town, you know.

I'll attend when they finally panel a discussion called "Why are our games less fun than brushing your teeth?"

That was actually something we talked about in length in both of the panels I was on, particularly the first one.  A rough synopsis can be found on my blog.

2) In the "Design Risks" panel, the outright dismissal of the notion that MMO combat should be anything other than push-a-button-and-walk-away. The panelist who responded (I think it was the guy from Mythic) basically said that if any modicum of skill was involved, veteran players would be whomped by newbies and the moon would plunge from its orbit. I wrote a rant on how wrong he is, which I won't inflict on y'all unless provoked.

It was me (or at least, I agreed), and it wasn't a dismissal.  It was an explanation of how creating a skill-based game is a Design Risk (hence the name of the panel).  Skill-based games have inherent problems in social environments, because older players can either destroy new players or shame them into wanting to quit.  That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but that as a designer, you have to figure out how to mitigate that risk.

What if as you progressed through the game, you (the player) could learn tactics or information that would give you an edge over players who didn't have that knowledge?

Do you feel like this doesn't happen in EverQuest, Ultima Online and Shadowbane RIGHT NOW?  These games are extremely complicated to play, especially at high levels.  Sure, anyone who buys a character on eBay can cast a spell, but its an entirely different thing to know WHEN to cast a spell, as anyone who has taken part in an EQ plane raid or an SB siege can attest to.

Fine, since the market figures too big in your thinking, here, have $50 million dollars and no executives. NOW what risks do you take?

To be fair, Raph springboarded this question onto us without us being prepared for it, and as such, we had to make up shit was we went along (bad game design legend.  No cookie for you).  

Personally, if I had $50 million dollars, I'd like to give 30 studios 1 million dollars to incubate their best idea, and then give the studio that comes up with the best idea 19 million dollars.  The last million dollars I skim off the top.

[HaemishM]

The last million dollars I skim off the top.

Hookers and beer ain't cheap. :)

EDIT: And thank you, Ubiq, for pointing me to this.

[WayAbvPar]

Does the game have bugs? Yeah, it has a helluva lot of bugs. What the fuck you think I'm doing here cock gobbler? I'm trying to fix the god damn game but you little whiney bitches want new shit too.

OMG that is classic.

[Furiously]

50 Million... I bet I could make a MMORPG that featured agriculture. A player becomes a farmer who, buys a plot of land, grow various vegetables and fruits, harvests and ships to the Agricultural Cooperatives.

[Furiously]

Damn it!!!

http://cosmogu.com/index.html


Ok.... So much for that idea - instead I give you...."Animal Crossing Online".

[Margalis]

Skill-based games have inherent problems in social environments, because older players can either destroy new players or shame them into wanting to quit.  

That's the exact  *opposite* argument that was stated above. (That the problem is newer players can spank vets)

I don't see how what you say is different from today. In current MMORPGs older players can *always* destroy new players.

[Samwise]

What if as you progressed through the game, you (the player) could learn tactics or information that would give you an edge over players who didn't have that knowledge?

Do you feel like this doesn't happen in EverQuest, Ultima Online and Shadowbane RIGHT NOW?  These games are extremely complicated to play, especially at high levels.  Sure, anyone who buys a character on eBay can cast a spell, but its an entirely different thing to know WHEN to cast a spell, as anyone who has taken part in an EQ plane raid or an SB siege can attest to.

Suppose you had a decent macro system in your game that gave you hooks into all the basic game events visible to the player and had all the basic scripting language features.  How many lines would the macro be that could decide what spell to cast for optimal results?

Admittedly, I haven't personally played any of the games you describe.  In the MMOGs that I have played, though, and from the limited viewings I have had of other games of that ilk, I suspect that with the right tools you could macro the PvP combat to be optimal in about fifteen lines, to say nothing of PvE combat.  (Even with the limited tools available in, say, SWG, people can and do completely macro PvE combat.)

(Edit)
More to the point: how long do you have to play (or be taught by a guildie) before you master whatever tactics are necessary to PvP at level 50?  Subtract that time from the total time it took to get up to level 50.  Whatever time is left (I'm guessing about 99% of it) was spent grinding in stagnation.

[Raph]

To be fair, Raph springboarded this question onto us without us being prepared for it, and as such, we had to make up shit was we went along (bad game design legend. No cookie for you).

I didn't know I was going to pose that particular one until we got to that point. I sprang it on myself just as much as I sprang it on anyone else. :)

[Alkiera]

If I had 50 million bucks to design an MMOG?

I have two ideas.

For PvP type game, character design that includes most of the development up front.  No classes, you get points to buy skills, stats, abilites that alter some of those in other ways, etc, somewhat like Shadowbane, only moreso.  Perhaps have some items purchasable with points, too.  Some limits placed to avoid over-much cheese, but ideally you can balance thru point costs.  There are PnP systems that seem to turn out disturbingly balanced characters out there already(namely, Hero).

The starting character enters the gameworld with basic equipment to use the skills they've chosen, and a home in their hometown where they can leave objects, and place grounded objects like forges, potion-racks, etc.   Better equipment, including techniques, spells or magical items, can be found thru PvE, crafting skills, and PvP.  There isn't a sword of whoopass, magical equipment will have some advantages, but not really like any other major MMO game I've played.  Your starting equipment is definately acceptable equipment to engage in PvP or PvE, no killing easy things to get sword+1 so you can fight harder things for the sword+2 ad nauseum until you kill the gods for the ultimate ass-kicking sword.  Also, some bonuses are to be had for using the same equipment for a long time, you know that piece of wood or steel or whathaveyou so well, it works better for you than another similar item.

Only allow a single character per server, and that one character is perma-death.  When you die in PvP or PvE, you corpse drops stuff you've been carrying...  You make a new character.  The pain is lessened by the fact that you do not have to level again.  Your new character will however, have the same surname as the first one, and have access to the home of your previous character.  Also, a karma system can affect the number of points you have to spend on a new character.  If your dead character was Will Smith the Righteous Defender of the Realm, or got some other heady title due to your awesome arcane power, your craftsmanship, etc, you might get a bonus.  If your previous character was caught after a killing spree on your kin, you can get a penalty, which could be worked off by not being a rat bastard next time.  Such effects are not huge, but can add up over several lifetimes.  Toss in a plaque or something for the house, so visitors can see your characters past lives/relatives/whatever you want to play that off as.

There is a system of guilds which can aid starting players, such as a mages guild to help teach magic beyond what you start with, fighters guilds to teach weapon techniques (melee combat being similar to CoH, no auto-whack, with learned techniques instead of CoH's powers), crafting guilds, rogues guilds, etc, to cover all the skillsets.  The guild NPCs will demand some effort on the part of the players in exchange for such training, in the form of quests or money.  Players trained in techniques or spells can train others, as well.

Socially, the game is set up with a racial friend/foe system, groups of allies against each other, with contested grounds, a la DAoC or WoW, with governments within each group rewarding players with titles based on their achievements.  PvP is possible against friends and foes alike, and the system will allow you to choose not to kill someone if you wish.  Thus, you can fight someone to unconciousness, and then leave them there, they'll wake up shortly, knowing you beat them, but didn't kill them.

Players can apply to be guards or investigators for the government.  If a crime is reported, either to a PC or NPC guard (Galadriel Whitehair was killed behind her house!), an investigator can look into it, given tools to dig into logged game data to figure out who did it, and can gain permission of the government to do something about it.  They use their abilities to find and capture the criminal, who is then jailed.  Having a character jailed is either an effective suspension from the game (on that server, anyway) for some amount of time, or a death sentance.  If the player is killed by the government, they also send people to clean out the house, so their new character (who has the same last name) has to start from scratch.

PvP with consequences is the name of the game.  Yes, people will likely die alot when they first start, especially if they are new to the genre.  Lots of other people are designing hand-holding games, someone needs to design for those who can already walk without mommy.  A character who has gone thru training with the appropriate guild(s) should know enough about how to play well enough that they shouldn't die outside of PvP or doing dumb stuff like charging an entire legion of mobs solo or poking the sleeping dragon without backup.

Geez, that got long.  And it's not organized well.  I'll make another post for my non-PvP idea anyhow.

--
Alkiera

[Margalis]

For $50 million, I would make an online "Magic the Gathering meets Final Fantasy Tactics meets Warhammer Table Top."

There are a variety of leagues you can enter, with different rules for army construction. (Set points to spend, a drafting and
"player" rotation setup, ability to "gain experience" or not, etc) You create armies. You square off against other armies online.

But wait, is it a MMOG? It's massive, it's multiplayer, it's online, and it's a game, so yes. It's basically a massive neverending tournament.

[schild]

For $50 million, I would make an online "Magic the Gathering meets Final Fantasy Tactics meets Warhammer Table Top."

I've posted about something similar to that. But more like Pokemon meets M:tG. You go around and kill monsters SW:G...wait no, CoH style and then they yield cards or packs or whatever. Then you do pvp through games of Magic: the Gathering. Point is, pvp needs skill, thx.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

The last thing I need is for my in-game avatar to spend his food money on a collectable card game.

Escape me from real life, these games do.

[plangent]

I know this is offtopic as hell but my curiosity is killing me.  Does Sanger actually wear those Nudie suits to cons?

[Sky]

If I had $50M, Rednecks Online would become a reality.

I don't see how what you say is different from today. In current MMORPGs older players can *always* destroy new players

Newb: "Hey, that's a sweet sword, how can I get one?"
Vet: "Well, first you gotta spend a few months to a year levelling up..."
Newb: "Umm...ok...then what?"
Vet: "Then you gotta put together 20 people to fight the uber warden of doominess, which is a rare spawn on the new moon of every third month, and only drops the jinky of glooble every six spawns, then take that to the invisible hidden man, who will tell you how to find the key to the dungeon of yikes. Now, to get that key, you'll need about 14 people, kill everything in the zone of wonky for a few hours and eventually a blibby will spawn. Kill him, and he will rarely randomly drop half of the key. It took me about three weeks to find him! Then go to the zone where the dungeon of yikes is and camp the hermit of doodysmell until he drops the other half of the key. A lot of people are trying to get that, so you might have to wait in line, that took me about a month. Now you can actually get into the dungeon! Then...
Newb: *tunes out*
Newb: "Err...you know what...maybe this game isn't for me."

[Shannow]

It was me (or at least, I agreed), and it wasn't a dismissal.  It was an explanation of how creating a skill-based game is a Design Risk (hence the name of the panel).  Skill-based games have inherent problems in social environments, because older players can either destroy new players or shame them into wanting to quit.  That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but that as a designer, you have to figure out how to mitigate that risk.

I'd rather be shamed a couple of times learing how to play than have to play 18 hours a day 7 days a week to get good. You seriously underestimate players here.

The easiest way to mitigate the risk is to put the skill based game in the right context, that of a team based game with a greater purpose than simply killing the other guy for loot/xp...

I lead operations in ww2ol and you should see my kill to death ratio...*shudder*...

[Ubiq]

Suppose you had a decent macro system in your game that gave you hooks into all the basic game events visible to the player and had all the basic scripting language features.  How many lines would the macro be that could decide what spell to cast for optimal results?

Suppose you had a decent macro system that played Tetris for you?  That suggested the best moves in solitaire?  Both games are ridiculously addictive and repeatable game experiences, although both games are far simpler than your average MMP experience.

The MMP experience, while soloing, tends to have an optimal advancement path - there's no doubt about that, and its something that we could be doing better.  That being said, when you get into larger group dynamics, you've got something that seriously screws with any paint-by-numbers strategy you might have - other people.

In Shadowbane, this would be the fact that you have to adjust your tactics to your opponent's class, tactics and the overall situation.  In Everquest, the upper level game can be a guild of 70 people working together in order to kill something ridiculously overpowered.  Building a plan and communicating is crucial, and one screwup by a cleric whose cybering when he should be paying attention can cause a chaotic chain reaction that everyone has to adapt to on the fly.  

I'm not saying we've reached the pinnacle of game design for these things yet.  But a lot of people sell short the complexities of these games at higher levels.

[Ubiq]

I know this is offtopic as hell but my curiosity is killing me.  Does Sanger actually wear those Nudie suits to cons?

Sanger (better known as the Fat Man) always dresses like a cowboy pimp at these cons.  He's great.

[AOFanboi]

For $50 mill, my game would be a persistent game of economy, diplomacy, hacking, powerful organizations, ranks, missions, politics, etc.

And no combat in the traditional sense. At all. Since that is the treadmill and the boredom and what gives the cookie-cutter feeling. The game will be full PvP, but the interaction is non-whacking and non-shooting. Possibly with mini-games to resolve conflicts e.g. bartering and lawsuits and so on.

Since there is little need for combat animations, weapon balancing, inventing excuses to explain respawning of mobs and players and stuff like that, the $50 million can be spent on hiring domain professinals on economy, law and so on, in order to make the "MMOSim" as good as possible.

[Shannow]

I'm not saying we've reached the pinnacle of game design for these things yet.  But a lot of people sell short the complexities of these games at higher levels.

The problem is getting to those higher levels, not the high level game itself.

In a skill based game a newbie maybe with a bit of thought and a smigden of luck can take down a seasoned veteran, in a MUD/mmrpg he doesnt have that chance at all.

[Nebu]

More to the point: how long do you have to play (or be taught by a guildie) before you master whatever tactics are necessary to PvP at level 50?  Subtract that time from the total time it took to get up to level 50.  Whatever time is left (I'm guessing about 99% of it) was spent grinding in stagnation.

Man, you summed up my feelings about the current systems perfectly.  

Thank you!

[Samwise]

Suppose you had a decent macro system that played Tetris for you?  That suggested the best moves in solitaire?  Both games are ridiculously addictive and repeatable game experiences, although both games are far simpler than your average MMP experience.

I'm surprise you didn't use Counter-Strike as your counter-example instead.  Tetris requires increasing speed of action and therefore is a "twitch" game, which is a type of skill wholly separate from tactical planning (which also exists in Tetris, and would probably even take more than fifteen lines of script, for that matter).  If Tetris remained at the same manageably slow speed (like, say, MMOG combat), it would be a very boring game.

As for Solitaire, it IS a very boring game, once you realize that a retarded monkey (or a five-line script) could play it.  Would you pay $50 for a copy of Solitaire (heck, I'll be generous and throw in an instant messaging client as well), and $15 each month for a continuing subscription so you could continue playing it?  When's the last time you played Solitaire and had fun?

(Freecell is a wholly different story, of course.  Make me a MMOG that requires the same amount of brainpower as Freecell and I'll never leave.)

But a lot of people sell short the complexities of these games at higher levels.

To repeat my earlier hypothetical - if you took someone who had never played the game before (assume he's relatively computer-savvy and maybe has played similar games, so he's not a retarded monkey, just new to your game), gave him your high-level character, and then proceeded to teach him everything you know about combat and strategy in that game, how long would it take him to be about as good as you are?

[Mi_Tes]

With $50 mill and no constraints, I would make "Mythica" (more individuality and more options in a dynamic world), get everyone playing by offering it free and easily accessible, then experiment with in game education.  

I first thought about the game I would love to play, basically "Mythica" in a more dynamic world "an in the box sort of answer".  Then I thought about it a bit more and decided that one of the reasons I liked the idea of Mythica was because I wanted to learn more about Norse mythology, and not just a character name or label, but the lore and get a better understanding of what life was like then.  So then my dream of the most awesome Mythica game became more of a mix into education/reality TV - like Colony - where you were given an insight into a specific time period and learned something.  So my focus of my game on top is one of fun, but the depth to it is learning and understanding.  Why not in the guise of being fun, to level in a game you actually learn something.  If you want to be a master herbalist, you learn about real plants and their real qualities.  If you wanted to become an entertainer, their was a mini game that taught you how to play an instrument (a more advanced one than the monkey beating on the drums for PS2) or a singing one - (like the new game in the UK of kareoke on the PS2).  You could learn in front of others, or in an instanced area (until you are more comfortable).  I think games that educate you could take learning to the next level. Where a game could by points or titles recognize skills you are learning in game or know on the outside.  Games seem to be always reaching for depth - why not provide that depth with real learning - education or experience.  Children and animals play to learn about their surroundings and how to interact.  Perhaps playing to learn is where online gaming is heading.  Playing online gives someone a relatively risk-free space, a safe way to get your feet wet in something new or experience something new while you are still having fun at the same time while providing options convenience and learning at your pace and timeframe.  

So, what I would do is provide the game free to anyone with internet access - both women and men alike and get Dell, Gateway, Sony, Alienware, and other computer companies to have Mythica loaded when you buy a computer or even provide it with MS windows.  Once you get people playing and having fun, experiment with providing depth by giving educational lessons at varying levels in the game as well - like learning Latin, or learning mythical lore, or learn about engineering, astronomy, map making, sun dials, tailoring, real herbal benefits of plants, chemistry, math, English/writing, medicine, linguistics, archeology.  Mix learning/playing/educating people with the game and give points for mental achievements, not just twitch.  With the ultimate goal of educating people in a way that makes it fun to learn, with others around, where people can go at their own pace, and use the game as a giant lab, exploration, and resource.  To be an expert in a profession, you would have to learn about that profession - do tasks, puzzles, research to become an expert.  Once an expert, you would still have more depth to learn more in that field or go on to learning something else - like coding, how to conduct an archeological dig, or how to read and understand Egyptian.  Ultimately providing up to a college level education for numerous topics while in game.

Education by online gaming is my "out of the box" answer, with my "in the box" ideas of my perfect game below.  


I want an immersive mythology based fantasy game with great depth and individual choices.  Also providing options for other mythologies in expansion packs (Norse mythology, Greek mythology, Roman, Atlantis, Myan, Incan, Egyptian, Roman, Eskimo, far eastern......  I want my character to be able to be used in different games, so that guilds traveling between games would be made easy.  I want to pay one base price for the convenience of access to lots of games and different types of games with my same character.  Keep the greifers and cheaters away.  Do at least updates every other month, do expansions every 6 months to keep the world ever changing and providing additional depth.  Continue to make it an even more immersive world where you and everything else changes over time, to keep progressing graphically as well.  

I want dynamic worlds in that the world is changing while I am gone and that I can direct to some degree.  I want npc's as my minions - that I order around doing my bidding, with some degree of independent reactions on their part  (make my boat, worship me, design and build a house, follow me around, fight things with me or for me, spy on other towns, collect plants, make potions, write books so I can learn spells, run errands, make clothing, collect objects, sell things, farm and raise animals) or options for me to do those things when and if I choose.  I want randomness in results, but consistency in the way things are handled (like UO spells, logic based).  I want the world to be dynamic in the way grow plants, animals evolve, spawn, gather, and attack, weather occurs, natural disasters happen - so that the virtual world really is an evolving world.  I want a world where other people are vying for the same resources and are impacting the world as well.  Add in some chaos every once in a while - with dynamic, player, and dev run events.

I want stylized realistic looking characters with tons of options for looks, think CoH with the same amount of options after creation and on a continuous basis, not just at creation (eyes, nose, mouth, hair, build, clothing, items).  I want tons of space for my personal items - instanced space with a boat, a boat dock, a yard, a house with tons of options for building and decorating to make your space unique, a storage closet for clothes, a storage cabinet for food and spices, pets - like a kitten who will grow and develop and perhaps someday you find your cat's kittens in a corner of your house.  My character should be able to own lots of items and be unique and where your actions impact what happens.  If you want to change your looks, go to a hairdresser, anything that makes the game feel more immersive and life in game is more logical / realistic because it is intuative, not because a game designer said so.

I want a storyline - a reason for being in the world - living as a god or hero - to learn about what it was like to live then or learn what they did.  An immersive world that you can drop into for 10 minutes or 10 hours.  I want multiple screens so that you can manage more than one thing at a time - fight in one and watch your npc's in others, or even talk on IRC.  I want an easy way to converse with others who are inside and outside the game and them to be able to talk to me.  Games inside the main game - even like backgammon, blockus, or carnival shooter types.  I want an extensive rating system and ignore options for those idiots I don't want to deal with in game, as well as lots of friends options for those I do want to talk with, guilds, monarchy, and housing or other options for gathering people.  I want message boards and other guild tools to be available in game or out of game, making crossing that line of whether or not you are in game or out of game non existent.   Solo play should be a viable alternative and group play made easy by giving options of getting people together.  

The combat should be reactive to me - with no delays and be fun.  Easily being able to switch between different kinds of combat.  My character should not have to follow a skill tree - it should be more like AC, with multiple skills and ability to assign points to each.  I don't want to have the same character in looks or skills that anyone else has.  I want lots of options on skills of characters and lots of options of types of weapons, the ability to increase weapon strength.  I want some puzzle/educational quests that rely on something other than just the kill this and bring me that.  Have multiple quests going at the same time - WoW does that well and teaches you things at the same time - routes for the Griffin.  I want to have fun as a noobie - no killing maggots - give me something fun to kill and interesting to do - immerse me and provide depth so I want to stay.  Provide the options that WoW does on crafting only offer more professions, but only more logical and education based - make it intuitive and fun (no sows ear for a silk purse).  Have NPC sellers, and creatures dropping cool and random loot.  Have a mix of items with level and other types of requirements for use.  

A map should be easy to use and give points of interest, as well as giving the option of writing an additional explanation at points.  It should also be able to tell you what town you are near, your exact location so you can tell others, with the ability to set your map to notice plants, or other creatures by name or in general (kind of like AC's decal).  You should be able to look up where you want to go and it to point out the route.  Detail of vendors and what they sell, where they are should be on there if you want that detail.  You should be able to have a quest log where you can add your own notes into it.  Special portals - "tree's of life" should be assessable and can transport you so you can get someplace quickly if you want, but also provide the option of traveling slowly if you want to explore.  I want to be able to run, jump, swim, as well as wanting flying, land, and water creatures you can ride and direct, not ones that take you on specific routes (tons of options to fly a dragon, a griffin, a giant butterfly, a giant locus, a dragonfly, a magic carpet, a flying horse/unicorn, or ride a lockness monster, a boat, a whale, a shark, a dolphin, a lion, a swan, a bear, a wolf, a carriage, a tornado, a horse).  I don't want to constantly load zones, just one please. Towns should feel like towns, and be in the world to get people together, not empty.

The interface should be easy to learn, easy to change, and movement should be by arrow keys or wasd.  A training area should explain the basics and be more gentle on you when you first enter (I don't want to die within my first 20 minutes of play) and so that first time MMO players want to continue.  Providing more explanation, being very intuitive, and giving great customer service to noobies and others.  Have players / staff at the noobie zones to answer basic questions, give items, and help as needed.

[Samwise]

To be fair, Raph springboarded this question onto us without us being prepared for it, and as such, we had to make up shit was we went along (bad game design legend.  No cookie for you).

So you make games for a living, and you've never once in your life pondered the question "what sort of games would I really like to make?"

[Ubiq]

To be fair, Raph springboarded this question onto us without us being prepared for it, and as such, we had to make up shit was we went along (bad game design legend.  No cookie for you).

So you make games for a living, and you've never once in your life pondered the question "what sort of games would I really like to make?"

Sure I have.  You think I'm just going to give that answer away so someone else can go do it? ;-)

[Samwise]

I hadn't realized there were so many people with $50 mil in their pockets at that conference who were threatening to steal risky ideas and implement them.  Good thing for them they were disguised so well, eh?  ;)