SOE to launch ... SOMETHING FIVE YEARS TOO LATE!

[sam, an eggplant]

And why would being able to buy equipment be bad?

Also, why would being able to buy levels be bad? After all, it's better to buy experience directly from SOE than to pay some farmer to play your character for you, right?

In fact, since you can buy levels and gear, you could pay SOE directly for a level 100 character decked out in solid platinum armor riding a dragon, shining like the sun, lord of all he surveys. Then you could buy a suitable for framing artistically posed screenshot of your character directly from SOE, hang it in a place of honor on your wall, and I guess at that point you'd just furiously masturbate to it. Because there'd be no reason to play the actual game.

[Hoax]

You guys still haven't gotten with the times and embraced "cash shops"?

[Sky]

In fact, since you can buy levels and gear, you could pay SOE directly for a level 100 character decked out in solid platinum armor riding a dragon, shining like the sun, lord of all he surveys. Then you could buy a suitable for framing artistically posed screenshot of your character directly from SOE, hang it in a place of honor on your wall, and I guess at that point you'd just furiously masturbate to it. Because there'd be no reason to play the actual game.

So? You don't have to. You can play the game just fine. Look, I wouldn't buy items, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I don't see how it hurts your game experience, if anything RMT would make things a bit less bottlenecked. Excepting of course PvP servers.

Hell, I play EQ2 with experience turned off. Anyway, back on topic:

MN: You mentioned that there will be rare loot cards with in-game items. Are those going to be more cosmetic, or will they have stats attached to them?

Smedley: They have some minor stats, but they’re primarily cosmetic. That’s the intent, for them to be cosmetic. We have some minor potions and stuff in there, but otherwise no. Our aim is to give a lot more loot with these things[.]

MN: Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?

Smedley: Actually no. One of the things we’re doing is making it so that you can’t sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.

MN: Will players be able to trade?

Smedley: No. Otherwise we’ll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we’re going to stop that cold.

[tazelbain]

This is awesome and getting awesomer.

The price point for MTGO was too much and SOE doesn't have the CCG gravitas.

EDIT: Ok, I am confused about boosters.

[naum]

In fact, since you can buy levels and gear, you could pay SOE directly for a level 100 character decked out in solid platinum armor riding a dragon, shining like the sun, lord of all he surveys. Then you could buy a suitable for framing artistically posed screenshot of your character directly from SOE, hang it in a place of honor on your wall, and I guess at that point you'd just furiously masturbate to it. Because there'd be no reason to play the actual game.

<NelsonVoice>Haha</NelsonVoice>

By prohibiting training of cards, it's just a much wider cash siphon back to Sony… …"company store" style "gold trading"… …unless the whole deal is more a lottery door prize type of deal… …but that would nullify the "game" play angle…

[Amaron]

People who don't want to participate can throw their boosters up for trade if they nab them as loot - and they can get something they like. I think that's pretty darn cool. People who do want to play, but aren't the sort to buy lots of boosters to get all the cards NOW NOW NOW can work up boosters while they play, tarde for them from people who don't want them, and build a good deck.

I still don't get this.  Are the boosters that you can buy NODROP but the ones you can loot tradeable?  Because if you can trade the paid-for boosters that's RMT again. 

Note I don't really have any objection to this as it sounds just like EvE's method of letting players sell isk via game time cards.  My only reason for asking is clarification. 

[CmdrSlack]

Because if you can trade the paid-for boosters that's RMT again.

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

I'm sure we'll see some huge market of people paying for boosters and then trading them for uber leet items...cause you know, the items gained from boosters will be so leet.   

[tazelbain]

I think the confusion is that there is 2 game spaces.  CCG space and World space(EQ/EQ2 combined).  You can buy stuff with cash in CCG Space.  But in World Space you can't buy trade them, just loot 'em turn them in for cards in CCG space.

[CmdrSlack]

I think the confusion is that there is 2 game spaces.  CCG space and World space(EQ/EQ2 combined).  You can buy stuff with cash in CCG Space.  But in World Space you can't buy trade them, just loot 'em turn them in for cards in CCG space.

You can trade the looted boosters in World Space as long as you haven't "opened" them. You cannot trade cards at all in CCG space. That's what I get out of the various posts/articles with Smed and clarifications from Grimwell.

[HaemishM]

You guys are funny. Sky, email me.

The game is pretty simple. It's a CCG and it follows the standard CCG model of starters and boosters. We aren't innovating there, or doing anything with costs that should surprise anyone at all. I'm still playing M:tG and am not surprised that 10th edition costs the same as 9th, etc.

...

The team in Denver does a great job with these games - the Pirates game rocks.

I bet it does. I'd love, love, LOVE to play the Pirates game online. But see my earlier comments. I'm not paying full retail price for non-physical cards. I'm just not going to do that. It means SOE loses a potential customer, just like Magic: The Gathering lost a potential customer for having the same shittastic pricing scheme. Online CCG's that do not give any sort of real, reasonable valuation on the COLLECTIBLE cards can suck my left nut. If I pay $300 for virtual cards, and the servers get wiped, all I get is $15 (in MTG). I'm sure the situation is similar or worse in Pirates. That's balls no matter how you slice it.

The virtual cards cost almost nothing to produce. No printing costs, and in the case of the Pirates or Magic game, the art costs were paid for when the physical cards were made. Server and database costs are not going to equal to the printing cost per card. Hell, I can go to my local Hobbytown and buy a physical booster of Pirates for $3.69 as opposed to the $3.99 MSRP, and the cards retain their value and I can if I so choose, get them insured for that value. SOE's cards cost me full retail price, retain no value and aren't insured. Thus, I'm getting raped if I buy the virtual card game.

That's the definition of money-grubbing shitheel. I'm not asking for free cards, I'm asking for a more acceptable pricing scheme. $2.50 a booster pack, $7.50 a starter would be much more within reason.

[schild]

I don't know about that. To each his own on that front, but pricing is pricing. The consumer decides what a products worth. Insulting the maker of something for pricing something out of your comfort zone is just futile and slightly silly.

[Amaron]

Because if you can trade the paid-for boosters that's RMT again.

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

I'm sure we'll see some huge market of people paying for boosters and then trading them for uber leet items...cause you know, the items gained from boosters will be so leet.   

You are completely misunderstanding.  People will want to play the card game if they don't have to pay for boosters with real cash.  Thus people who want to buy gold can buy boosters and then sell them in game for gold.

A huge chunk of EvE's subscriptions work off this model so I fail to see how you consider it a "good laugh".  It will obviously happen.  I don't personally care if it does but I'm curious if SOE has decided whether or not they are going to allow it.

[HaemishM]

I don't know about that. To each his own on that front, but pricing is pricing. The consumer decides what a products worth. Insulting the maker of something for pricing something out of your comfort zone is just futile and slightly silly.

Of course, it's futile. Welcome to Waterthread.org F13.net. We bitch in futility because it amuses us. This consumer, and a number of others that this consumer knows thinks the product is not worth that, INCLUDING people who actually buy and play the physical Pirates game. I realize to SOE and WOTC, that matters shit, because they are still making their money. I'm just bitching because I can, and Grim was the one who brought up the "we price it like everyone else" meme.

[naum]

Of course, it's futile. Welcome to Waterthread.org F13.net. We bitch in futility because it amuses us. This consumer, and a number of others that this consumer knows thinks the product is not worth that, INCLUDING people who actually buy and play the physical Pirates game. I realize to SOE and WOTC, that matters shit, because they are still making their money. I'm just bitching because I can, and Grim was the one who brought up the "we price it like everyone else" meme.

There is an endless stream of suckers…

[CmdrSlack]

Because if you can trade the paid-for boosters that's RMT again.

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

I'm sure we'll see some huge market of people paying for boosters and then trading them for uber leet items...cause you know, the items gained from boosters will be so leet.   

You are completely misunderstanding.  People will want to play the card game if they don't have to pay for boosters with real cash.  Thus people who want to buy gold can buy boosters and then sell them in game for gold.

A huge chunk of EvE's subscriptions work off this model so I fail to see how you consider it a "good laugh".  It will obviously happen.  I don't personally care if it does but I'm curious if SOE has decided whether or not they are going to allow it.

No, that's still pretty damn laughable. Buy boosters to then wait around and sell them for gold? Why do that when you can buy from IGE or any other gold reseller and have your dough delivered within the hour and without as much hassle? The price point? Pff.

Moreover, that's NOT RMT. You see, once the cash becomes an in-game item (boosters), it ceases to be cash. Converting one in-game item to another is not RMT. I also haven't seen any indication that the paid-for-with-cash cards will be purchasable and then carried about on your EQ/EQ2 character. All indications are that it will be done within the CCG interface.

Just because there's a microtransaction model AND an MMO in close proximity doesn't mean it's enabling RMT (oh noes a gaem is at steak!) Perhaps your definition of the term needs work.

[sam, an eggplant]

If you can buy anything valuable and tradable for in-game money with real money, it's effectively RMT. So what if IGE is easier? IGE will get your ass banned.

If the boosters don't show up in your character's inventory before being opened, then you're right, no RMT here.

[CmdrSlack]

If you can buy anything valuable and tradable for in-game money with real money, it's effectively RMT. So what if IGE is easier? IGE will get your ass banned.

If the boosters don't show up in your character's inventory before being opened, then you're right, no RMT here.

Why, if this is also a standalone CCG (that doesn't require EQ or EQ2 to play) would purchased boosters EVER end up in inventory? Looted ones will, but those aren't purchased.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I have spilled my glass of water on the floor.  I must now get a rag or mop to clean it up.

[Sky]

I'm just bitching because I can, and Grim was the one who brought up the "we price it like everyone else" meme.

Except for the "We're also giving it away completely free if you don't want to pay" meme.

I really don't understand the outrage here, forgive me for being dense.

[Yegolev]

Seems rather optional to me.  I don't understand the rage, while at the same time I do.  I believe that there are much better things to bitch about in EQ2 than this.

[HaemishM]

I'm just bitching because I can, and Grim was the one who brought up the "we price it like everyone else" meme.

Except for the "We're also giving it away completely free if you don't want to pay" meme.

I really don't understand the outrage here, forgive me for being dense.

They aren't giving it away for free. You might get one starter pack free, but that's hardly going to make a good deck. And lootable boosters are not free, they require time.

[Murgos]

Well, I'm certainly not going to go camp the booster drop (unless it is just that damn addictive and then I don't care) so any time spent that results in acquiring a booster drop will have been normal adventuring time in which case it's just another item on the loot table.

[Yegolev]

I'll also go with "another item on the loot table" here, since if I really wanted X in EQ2 I will have to work to get it anyway.  Whether X allows me to compete in EQ2_LOCATION or LoN_GAME is of marginal difference, really.  It's like getting angry at crafting drops.

[Amaron]

No, that's still pretty damn laughable. Buy boosters to then wait around and sell them for gold? Why do that when you can buy from IGE or any other gold reseller and have your dough delivered within the hour and without as much hassle? The price point? Pff.

Because it's allowed by the company and you'd have no chance of being banned?  Unless boosters drop from the sky in game the price point will be better too most likely due to competition. 

Moreover, that's NOT RMT.

That's true I forget RMT is supposed to be considered currency exchange.   I'll remember to use the word "gold buying" next time. 

I don't really care though I just want an answer to my question of whether or not paid-for boosters are going to be tradeable or not.  It merely piques my curiosity because I'm curious what the normal userbase reaction will be.

[Sky]

You sure talk alot for someone who keeps repeating they don't care in every post.

[eldaec]

I can't get my panties in a bunch about RMT for a TCG.

TCGs that aren't shit are built around the RMT price model. You don't pwn in good TCGs simply by having the most expensive cards.

But I agree that there are other ways you could do it, and they wouldn't automatically be bloody awful, and

I can understand the concern that allowing trading of purchased cards inside a MMOG is blatantly equivalent to enabling EQ2 gold sales on all servers. It's not quite RMT because there is no way to get your money out, but it is pretty close. That said, nothing in the press release said this was going to be possible. Sounds like your EQ characters can loot packs, which then appear in your EQTCG account next time you log in, if so there is nothing left to complain about here.

[Amaron]

You sure talk alot for someone who keeps repeating they don't care in every post.

I merely asked Grimwell a question then had to have my question insulted.  I still want an answer and thus I defend the question but defending it is very likely to make people think I'm taking a stance against RMT.  In fact I lean towards the other side in this particular part of things in that I think they should allow people to trade paid-for boosters.

Also I didn't say I don't care.  I said I don't care either way.  Which in English means I am impartial to which answer I get.  I care very much about getting an answer though.

[Alkiera]

According to a post in the EQ2 forum, you will be able to trade cards.  Perhaps in a MTGO-style lobby area, or some such. 

It also specifies that what will be no-trade about the things are the item rewards from opening boosters, not the boosters or cards.  So the only way to get TCGSword_01 is to open a pack that contains one; you can't buy one from another player who got one in a booster.  (Sounds to me like a lot of items will be wasted on characters who can't use them.)

I would guess taht if you buy a booster for real money, it appears in the TCG interface directly, without passing through the EQ/EQ2 world.  This just makes sense, given you'll be able to create a Station Account to play the game with, without an EQ/EQ2 sub.

--
Alkiera

[tazelbain]

Hmm, it sounds like they could some use community relations.  I wonder if they have anybody for that?

[Venkman]

You're a funny man...

[Murgos]

I merely asked Grimwell a question then had to have my question insulted.  I still want an answer and thus I defend the question but defending it is very likely to make people think I'm taking a stance against RMT.  In fact I lean towards the other side in this particular part of things in that I think they should allow people to trade paid-for boosters.

I think the reason your question got attacked was because of the way you stated it.  You just assumed that boosters that were purchased were going to have an in EQ or EQ2 game component and then proceeded to harp on that aspect.

Heck, as far as I know boosters bought outside of game don't even have the in game items.  Add in the fact that the items themselves are relatively trivial which makes any accusations of buying success pretty esoteric anyway and you can see why the chicken little act is ruffling some fethers. 

[Amaron]

I think the reason your question got attacked was because of the way you stated it.  You just assumed that boosters that were purchased were going to have an in EQ or EQ2 game component and then proceeded to harp on that aspect.

I assumed no such thing.  That's exactly what I've been asking about from the start.  I don't think he was attacking me I merely think he found my question to be worthless.  I don't take that personally but I will continue to defend the validity of the question.   I still want to know from a credible source whether or not the paid-for boosters or cards will be tradeable in game.    If they aren't even accessible in game then the answer is obviously no.

Your comment about buying success accusations seems misplaced though considering I've made no such argument and I personally support being able to trade the purchased boosters/cards in game for gold.  In fact I don't see any point to the whole exercise unless such a thing is possible.   Yet at the same time I suspect them doing so will cause some annoyance to players who harp about gold buying.   This is the source of my interest.   They seem screwed either way so Im curious which poison they've picked and why.  Of course knowing Smedly the answer is probably whichever one he made the mistake of assuming wasn't going to lead to failure.

[cmlancas]

You're a funny man...

Jeff Butler?

[Numtini]

It looks to me that the rewards in the cards are largely the kind of things that Korean companies do RMT for. Not Uber Sword of Foozle Whacking, but XP potions, mounts, and other minor stuff. As someone actually playing EQ2, these don't really bother me particularly. Pretty much everyone has a freebie quest carpet and the large number of veteran players have virtually unlimited number of xp potions anyway.

I haven't looked at every item on the page, but is there anything there that's really significant?

[Sky]

Imagine if we limited this conversation to people actually playing EQ2, heh. I won't speak for all of us, but I'm psyched about having a new, free minigame to enjoy. Signe said she won't play though :(

Again, even if SOE sells items outright, where's the harm? If what someone else has in a PvE mmo bothers you, you need to stop playing PvE mmo. Hell, going back to the retort against my original statement of that point, let'm sell levels, too. Then people who only want to crush their way to the endgame can get the fuck out of the zones the rest of us play in most of the time.

Maybe I should start griping about how people who have time to play mmo more than I do get good items, that's unfair. You won't let me buy them, but you'll let people catass them! UNFAIR! This argument is turning me into an RMT fan, nice work.