The Hub of All Blame: A Postmortem

[CharlieMopps]

Prophet.

lol, thanks, spelling corrected.

Would you believe I was an English Major? That whole "Study drunk, take your tests drunk" thing doesnt really work.

[NiX]

I decided to check out the frontpage after not having checked it in a LONG time. Glad I did. Great work Schild. Some crazy insight into the mess that is this industry.

[Hoax]

Prophet.

lol, thanks, spelling corrected.

Would you believe I was an English Major? That whole "Study drunk, take your tests drunk" thing doesnt really work.

For somebody new between that mix-up and the comment that VG wasted "two years of your gaming life" you are on the fast track for a grief title.

Also welcome.

[CharlieMopps]

Prophet.

lol, thanks, spelling corrected.

Would you believe I was an English Major? That whole "Study drunk, take your tests drunk" thing doesnt really work.

For somebody new between that mix-up and the comment that VG wasted "two years of your gaming life" you are on the fast track for a grief title.

Also welcome.

hehe, I doubt any grief titel will be as humiliating as publicly admitting I fell for Brads con that long. It wasn't until I saw the pre-order for the game in best-buy that I realized it was all over. The guy is like Jim Jones or something... we're just lucky he couldn't post Koolaid in the Beta forums.

[Signe]

I like his name.  I think he is beer.

[Furiously]

Or maybe fake Absinthe...

[cmlancas]

I know I'm a noob here and all... but I have to step in and Call Bullshit when I hear it. Brad told me personally, via in-game chat around November of last year that the games' minimum system spec was supposed to be a Radeon 9800pro and 1gig of ram. I laughed and said "Ok, but what framerate do you really think we'll get with a setup like that" and he said "30FPS easily" 

They borked the engine, simple as that. When I first joined beta the game ran very well on my 9800pro. At the time there were about 20 people on at peak times of the day. Then they had this big patch one day, and at the same time invited a bunch of new people into beta... population jumped to around 80 and the servers started crashing... my framerate tanked. Not sure what they did in that patch, but it's what borked the engine. The game was ruined ever after that. I went out and got a $400 vid card to no avail. When they started selling pre-orders I'd had enough.  I told a couple of the developers that if they didn't get the engine fixed the game was going to tank... I'm not a prophet guys... just have common sense.

Thanks for wasting 2 years of my gaming life so you could swindle M$FT Brad.

Maybe I should pick my first post better, but I hate these "I hate Brad" posts. Did he fail? Sure. Did he have me believing his crap? Yep. I had a pre-order, and I even saw the train wreck first hand in beta! Do I see what the real deal is now? Yes. But do I /really/ think Brad went out and tried to jack Microsoft? No way. Brad wanted to see Velious all over again. Also, what does your framerate have to do with server-side issues? I will agree with you that the engine has a lot of problems, but saying that Brad wanted to do anything other than create the next great MMO is in my opinion, falsehood. I'll even submit that he couldn't handle the truth when his game was a piece of garbage out of the gate, but this is starting to look like Jonestown with everyone bathing in hater-ade.

Just so you know, I was on an AGP 9800Pro and 1GB Ram and averaged about 25 FPS in the Dwarven starting area in beta 4; I'm not sure I know what you are talking about. I had crappy framerate in the cities with a bunch of people, but really, it wasn't so unbearable.

[kfsone]

Brad wanted to see Velious all over again.

Erh, you sure you mean Velious? I'd been lead to understand that would be a bit like Julius Caesar's ghost getting up from his body and wanting to have a beer with his old mate Brutus.

[Lum]

Yeah, Kunark was really the high water mark for "the good old days" for EQ, and even then there was all the storm and thunder (IIRC melees were laughably overpowered due to new itemization).

[DarkSign]

Ahh Kunark. What was the quest where you had to get that spear from the king in the Sarnak Temple? Or the paladin quest where you went to the underwater city?

My favorite zone (Pre-Luclin) had to be The Deep...fighting the ThoughtOverfiend.
Post Luclin, I got the kill shot on Karana as a shaman no less.   

[sam, an eggplant]

The best 1H weapon before kunark was 8/24 (0.3333), requiring many, many days (not hours, days) of camping. Immediately after the expansion's release you could get 8/18 (0.4444) weapons off trash 2 feet inside of a dungeon, common drop. It was mudflation the likes of which had never been seen before.

[cmlancas]

Brad wanted to see Velious all over again.

Erh, you sure you mean Velious? I'd been lead to understand that would be a bit like Julius Caesar's ghost getting up from his body and wanting to have a beer with his old mate Brutus.

See foot. *point* See foot in mouth. *point*  Yeah. That one! I like your analogy though :D

I think the point is still valid though; Brad's quest is what it is, and not $$ for teh house plz.

[Watchmaker]

Brad wanted to see Velious all over again.

Erh, you sure you mean Velious? I'd been lead to understand that would be a bit like Julius Caesar's ghost getting up from his body and wanting to have a beer with his old mate Brutus.

Actually Velious, yes.

Back when he was establishing the early expectations for Vanguard (well, it was the yet-to-be-named game at the time) among the faithful, he evoked Velious era EQ specifically.   That was the second pillar of his vaunted viral marketing strategy.  You know, the one he would later claim was misinterpreted on a massive scale causing a lot of his target market to never give the game half a chance because they thought it was "just gonna be another EQ".

[cmlancas]

I thought I had read something on a fansite somewhere where I had read that quote. Not going to argue with a dev though; I'm just a college student whose hobby is games :D

If we were reading the same site, didn't I read somewhere that Temple of Veeshan was designed by McQuaid? I think it was in the same forum topic that irked a lot of people. Nobody wanted to play crap like that again because it was mind-numbingly difficult. You had to die to get /in/ the zone. Yeesh.

[CharlieMopps]

I thought I had read something on a fansite somewhere where I had read that quote. Not going to argue with a dev though; I'm just a college student whose hobby is games :D

If we were reading the same site, didn't I read somewhere that Temple of Veeshan was designed by McQuaid? I think it was in the same forum topic that irked a lot of people. Nobody wanted to play crap like that again because it was mind-numbingly difficult. You had to die to get /in/ the zone. Yeesh.

I chatted with Brad a couple of times inside Beta (back when he was still logging in) and trust me... I don't think Brad coded shit.

Have you ever had one of those bosses that just sat arround all day and said things like "I think it would make your job easier if we started doing things this way..." and you're thinging "WTF are you talking about? You have no idea how to do my job! My job would be easier if got some god damned airconditioning in here rather than sit in meetings all day talking about virtual bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with me sitting here trying to get shit done while I'm sweating my ass off!"

Well, that's Brad.

[Trippy]

Have you ever had one of those bosses that just sat arround all day and said things like "I think it would make your job easier if we started doing things this way..." and you're thinging "WTF are you talking about? You have no idea how to do my job! My job would be easier if got some god damned airconditioning in here rather than sit in meetings all day talking about virtual bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with me sitting here trying to get shit done while I'm sweating my ass off!"

Yes, that's the PHB (Pointy-Haired Boss).

Edit: typo

[cmlancas]

I thought I had read something on a fansite somewhere where I had read that quote. Not going to argue with a dev though; I'm just a college student whose hobby is games :D

If we were reading the same site, didn't I read somewhere that Temple of Veeshan was designed by McQuaid? I think it was in the same forum topic that irked a lot of people. Nobody wanted to play crap like that again because it was mind-numbingly difficult. You had to die to get /in/ the zone. Yeesh.

I chatted with Brad a couple of times inside Beta (back when he was still logging in) and trust me... I don't think Brad coded shit.

Have you ever had one of those bosses that just sat arround all day and said things like "I think it would make your job easier if we started doing things this way..." and you're thinging "WTF are you talking about? You have no idea how to do my job! My job would be easier if got some god damned airconditioning in here rather than sit in meetings all day talking about virtual bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with me sitting here trying to get shit done while I'm sweating my ass off!"

Well, that's Brad.

Fair enough on the coding part, but I meant designed. Like it was his idea of fun to have you die so you could get better gear. If he is really so much of a fuckup, why keep him as a creative consultant then? Or if they call him a creative consultant, can they just decide never to ask for his consultations?

[Chimpy]

... Or if they call him a creative consultant, can they just decide never to ask for his consultations?

Bingo.

Creative Consultant is one of those entertainment industry catchphrases that can be used like 'Executive Producer' as a way to give someone a more prominent spot on the credits.

Sure, some creative consultants actually do real work, but because the term is so vague it allows them to pretty much throw it around at whoever they want and not need to actually consult with them at all.

[HaemishM]

Art Designer: Hey Brad, you think this new armor looks cool?

Brad: No, I'd do it like...

Art Designer: Great, Brad! Thanks for your consult! {to artists underneath him} Ok Brad hates it, do it exactly like I said.

That's a creative consultant. As useless as art directors.

[Mi_Tes]

Great job Schild!

Reiterating what others have said - wtf was Brad thinking not to let his staff go himself?  Firing/laying off staff isn't fun, but damn, that is why you are MANAGEMENT - to do the hard stuff and make the hard decisions.  Nothing but complete incompetence there!!!!  Management 101 - you never ask something from your staff that you wouldn't do yourself.  Even if he was f'in clueless as a manager, you would think with all that religion, he would understand the golden rule at least and treat his staff accordingly!

Unbelievable that Mythica got canned for this pathetic pile of shit.

[Hibberhop]

Yes I was an employee, and yes I did get layed off. Alot of stuff in that interview is really jaded. People were actually laughing and making jokes, everyone was, not just the managers, thats how some people handle situations like that. Also, Andy did not just say "your fired". If I remember correctly he said "The deal has been signed and will close tomorrow. Tomorrow everyone will be terminated because Sigil will no longer exist. Some of you will be offered employment by SOE, some will not" While he was saying this Jeff butler was standing right there but didn't have the balls to deliver the news. Andy and Dave were the only ones with the sack to tell the employees what had happened. There is really no other way to say it. Its sad that some people have to make more drama than there really is. This whole situation was a bad one but I don't want disgruntled employees to skew information because they are pissed off(I know they have a right to be, but at least tell the truth.)

[schild]

I heard from way more than enough people to know that the phrase "fired" was used. if they were so eloquent, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have found out about the whole thing as fast as I did.

[Murgos]

Yes I was an employee, and yes I did get layed off. Alot of stuff in that interview is really jaded. People were actually laughing and making jokes, everyone was, not just the managers, thats how some people handle situations like that. Also, Andy did not just say "your fired". If I remember correctly he said "The deal has been signed and will close tomorrow. Tomorrow everyone will be terminated because Sigil will no longer exist. Some of you will be offered employment by SOE, some will not" While he was saying this Jeff butler was standing right there but didn't have the balls to deliver the news. Andy and Dave were the only ones with the sack to tell the employees what had happened. There is really no other way to say it. Its sad that some people have to make more drama than there really is. This whole situation was a bad one but I don't want disgruntled employees to skew information because they are pissed off(I know they have a right to be, but at least tell the truth.)

I take it the Fed-Ex'd SOE New Employee Package was waiting for you when you got home?

[Hibberhop]

If I recall correctly I think the word "Fired" was brought up when some one said "So basically we are all fired?" and in return they stated "yes".

[Hibberhop]

Yes I was an employee, and yes I did get layed off.

I take it the Fed-Ex'd SOE New Employee Package was waiting for you when you got home?

[Furiously]

Regardless, best of luck finding a new job.

[Murgos]

Yes I was an employee, and yes I did get layed off.

I take it the Fed-Ex'd SOE New Employee Package was waiting for you when you got home?

Sorry, good luck finding a new job.  Might want to stay out of games though.

[Hibberhop]

Regardless, best of luck finding a new job.

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

[DraconianOne]

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

Your job wasn't writing quest text was it?

[Hibberhop]

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

Your job wasn't writing quest text was it?

haha nope :P

[Xanthippe]

Good luck with your job search.

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

You say this like it's unusual or something. 

I wonder how many recommendations Brad has written, and how much time he's personally spent helping former employees out.

[HaemishM]

I wonder how many recommendations Brad has written, and how much time he's personally spent helping former employees out.

That's not in the Vision.

[CharlieMopps]

Good luck with your job search.

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

You say this like it's unusual or something. 

I wonder how many recommendations Brad has written, and how much time he's personally spent helping former employees out.

the last Job that I had been layed off from, not only did they write us recomendations, but they kept us on for an extra 2 weeks without any work so we could use work computers and phone systems to call out job hunting. It's pretty handy when you're talking to a potential employer to be able to say "Oh, you want a refference? Let me put my current boss on"

and that was one of the worst employers I've had... I can't imagine what sigil was like to pull what they did.

Do programers ever put little easteregg timebombs in stuff? Just in-case they get canned? I've always wondered about that. hehe

[Furiously]

Do programers ever put little easteregg timebombs in stuff? Just in-case they get canned? I've always wondered about that. hehe

Yes - and then dinosaurs eat them.

[Grand Design]

Good luck with your job search.

Thanks all, on a bright note, all the managers I have got in contact in has been really helpfull, and to everyother one of my friends that were laid off. If you ask your old manager something they will try to do what they can. I have heard them writing letters of recomendations and personally handing in resumes to friends at other companys for ex-employees.

You say this like it's unusual or something. 

I wonder how many recommendations Brad has written, and how much time he's personally spent helping former employees out.

the last Job that I had been layed off from, not only did they write us recomendations, but they kept us on for an extra 2 weeks without any work so we could use work computers and phone systems to call out job hunting. It's pretty handy when you're talking to a potential employer to be able to say "Oh, you want a refference? Let me put my current boss on"

and that was one of the worst employers I've had... I can't imagine what sigil was like to pull what they did.

Do programers ever put little easteregg timebombs in stuff? Just in-case they get canned? I've always wondered about that. hehe

Vanguard is an easter egg.  Very pretty and breaks easily.

GD