New Features, VOIP and Guild Banks.

[Merusk]

And surprise surprise, tons of bitching about VOIP.

People amaze me.

Linky

[Calantus]

Sounds good to me, at first I was a bit annoyed about the VOIP because they have better things to work on, but if they're actually going to support it and make it better than just ventrilo (highlighting the person who spoke is enough) then I'm all for it. IF the codecs are of the right quality, but if not then I'll just continue to use ventrilo for the guild and friends and just use the Blizz one for PUGs. And thank God for guild banks, that's going to make things a lot easier.

[Chenghiz]

Weren't people bitching about VOIP in EVE too? Silly people.

[Strazos]

Shit, I would never want to hear what someone in the average WoW PUG has to say.

[Merusk]

I use Vent for PUGs all the time. 98% of the time it's not like the stories you hear about X-box, because you're not competing against the folks you're talking to.  Very little reason for smack talk.  The few who just won't shut the fuck up and talk about inane shit I mute.   It'll help pick-up battleground groups organize a bit better too.. it'll still be a clusterfuck but at least marginally better.

The guild bank stuff looks interesting. I'm perplexed as to how much will honestly show up in some of them.  The raiding guilds I've been in all sold each other stuff, all that was in the bank was low-level crap you couldn't offload to the vendors, or stuff we nabbed on guild runs.  "family" guilds have usually had the better banking systems, helping with mounts and stuff.

[SurfD]

our guild usually never charges for stuff in guild (rare enchants, crafting and whatnot are free with your mats), and the vast majority of our guild bank resources usually goes to shit like storing:
herbs - for all the pots we needed for raiding (i think at one point we had 4 FULL CHARACTERS with 16 slot bags in every inventory slot doing nothing but holding herbs)
minerals - usually the ones needed for protection pots / flasks
essences - for certain crafted stuff like Naxx frost resist armor
All the assorted "token" shit you got from different instances
- ZG coins / Bijous
- AQ idols / Scarabs
- MC cores
- BWL elementium / sand
- Naxx frost runes

all that shit.  we also had guild funds, but since i have never been in an officer position, i dont know how much we had floating around.

[Chenghiz]

All the raid guilds I was in had a system like SurfD's. Goon Squad just relies on goonerosity and it works pretty well.

[Hellinar]

And surprise surprise, tons of bitching about VOIP.
 

It’s the old world versus game debate in another guise. My experience in LoTRO with built in VOIP was that it does reduce immersion for me. I play to travel in distant worlds, not listen to some guy on the other side of my home continent. VOIP is also touted as making gameplay more “efficient”. In my vocabulary, efficient is something you do at work, not play.

The solution to me is “obvious”, but I know will never be implemented. Set up some servers with no built in VOIP. Most people instead advocate that individuals should turn the feature off if they wish. They must have a very different model of how communities work if they think this is a solution.  The changes I find unpleasant with VOIP are at the community level, not the individual level.

[Merusk]

And surprise surprise, tons of bitching about VOIP.
 

It’s the old world versus game debate in another guise. My experience in LoTRO with built in VOIP was that it does reduce immersion for me. I play to travel in distant worlds, not listen to some guy on the other side of my home continent. VOIP is also touted as making gameplay more “efficient”. In my vocabulary, efficient is something you do at work, not play.

See, if they were bitching that it destroyed immersiveness, that's one thing.  Instead they're bitching that they'll be forced to use it, or else find themselves guildless/ groupless.  Or insisting that women will be harassed by the millions because you know they're really women now and not just female avatars.

Efficient isn't a dirty word in a game where things change on the fly, and also take so damn long.   I'd have been saved several wipes as a healer if I could have yelled, "hey there's an add on me" over voip in a pug.  Even spamming the chat window doesn't get noticed in enough time often enough, because unlike other older MMOs there isnt as much need to keep track of the chat window.   Just my experience.

[Ironwood]

Yup.  Even tho I am an awfully good tank, the wife sitting beside you, poking you in the eye if you don't get the adds, helps enormously.

That said, our regular 5 man runs a Vent server which I host at my work.

[Numtini]

We have voice over ip in LOTRO. Someone used it once in beta. Other than that no. If a guild group wants, we have our own TS server that's far better quality and less fuss to configure. But mostly we don't use that either.

I think the bitching in Eve was weren't they going to charge for it? Which was going to make it pretty useless since virtually everyone had a TS/Vent channel anyway?

[AcidCat]

It’s the old world versus game debate in another guise. My experience in LoTRO with built in VOIP was that it does reduce immersion for me. I play to travel in distant worlds, not listen to some guy on the other side of my home continent. VOIP is also touted as making gameplay more “efficient”. In my vocabulary, efficient is something you do at work, not play.

Yep. I know it's more *efficient*, I don't care. I don't like voicechat for immersion, and it's just annoying in general. I can handle Jonny McFucktard in little chatwindow text at the bottom of my screen that I can read or ignore at my leisure - having him breathing in my fucking ear is just too personal for me. I barely talk on the phone to my real life friends, let alone e-friends and pugs. I just don't want to hear people talking when I'm playing.

[WayAbvPar]

Running tough instances with a guild group on Ventrilo is 1000x easier than running the same instance with a PUG (or even guildies) without VOIP. Things go SO much smoother it isn't even funny. PvP is even more vital to have instant communications.

Guild banks will be nice. I would like to have a place to dump all the herbs, ore, unneeded reputation trinkets, etc I pick up through my travels for guildies to use.

[Jayce]

Guild bank, especially with online transaction tracking: cool.

VOIP:  problem is already solved.  No other game has been able to implement it as well as the "Big Two", Teamspeak and Ventrilo.  Why are they reinventing the wheel?

[Valmorian]

My experience in LoTRO with built in VOIP was that it does reduce immersion for me. I play to travel in distant worlds, not listen to some guy on the other side of my home continent.

I just don't understand this.  Isn't immersion just as easily broken when those same people are typing out conversations that don't fit the world?  If the people in your party are into role-playing, then hell, have them role-play in VOIP.  If they aren't, then whether they type about the latest sporting event where they are located at or say it over VOIP, what difference does that make?

There's a thousand things in these games that could be said to break the "world" immersion.  Do you complain about people being able to send tells over long distances in game?  That there exist zone-wide chat channels?

[Threash]

God i fucking hate vent/teamspeak, theres just no way i want to give a game that much attention.  When i play i have winamp going, i have the TV on, and several webpages open that im reading, if i wanted to talk to people i'd grab a phone and call my friends. 

[Furiously]

God i fucking hate vent/teamspeak, theres just no way i want to give a game that much attention.  When i play i have winamp going, i have the TV on, and several webpages open that im reading, if i wanted to talk to people i'd grab a phone and call my friends. 

See - Wayabvpar does all those things and talks on vent. Well kinda - you yell "MOVE GUIDO!!!!" and he goes "Oh sorry, was watching NHNIC, I'm a rogue, I supposed to die in combat." Then I drive 5 blocks to his house and kick him in the nuts.

[Sir Fodder]

Hmm, I wonder how far off voice masquerading tech is. I saw a video of Ray Kurzweil demonstrating some amazing voice to text and realtime voice language translation tech, but I imagine that sort of thing is extremely processor intensive. No VOIP in general population games for me as it is today, too annoying and immersion-breaking.

[Morfiend]

God i fucking hate vent/teamspeak, theres just no way i want to give a game that much attention.  When i play i have winamp going, i have the TV on, and several webpages open that im reading, if i wanted to talk to people i'd grab a phone and call my friends. 

So YOUR the guy who always wipes the group in groups.

[WayAbvPar]

God i fucking hate vent/teamspeak, theres just no way i want to give a game that much attention.  When i play i have winamp going, i have the TV on, and several webpages open that im reading, if i wanted to talk to people i'd grab a phone and call my friends. 

See - Wayabvpar does all those things and talks on vent. Well kinda - you yell "MOVE GUIDO!!!!" and he goes "Oh sorry, was watching NHNIC, I'm a rogue, I supposed to die in combat." Then I drive 5 blocks to his house and kick him in the nuts.

I have GOT to start locking my door. Or get a cup.

[squirrel]

I'm all for integrated VoIP if it's done right. It alleviates a ton of issues:

* Guilds having to pony up to host Vent/TS server
* Having to keep up to date on codecs/client versions (I play on a mac, so I have to keep up to date on the Vent builds or things get screwy)
* Quick and easy voice for PuG's. I've been in some great PuG's that were semi-regular (one group of us tried Baron 45 3 nights in a row until we did it). Since we were all in different guilds getting someone to allow us on a guild vent server was slow and annoying.
* Quicker ability to weed out dickheads/farmers from said PuG's. It's harder to hide when everyone's on voice.
* Better social atmosphere - ignoring the aforementioned dicks, I find that being on voice with a group either guild or no tends to let the group bond faster. It's easier to banter, joke and performance is better reducing frustration.

Good for Blizz, I'm confident they'll do it mostly right.

[Sogrinaugh]

Dreading the integration of VOIP.  I think one of the reasons i have been so much happier since i bounced on my old server and re-rolled alliance is simply not listening to anyone, ever.  Outside of a few old former guildmates whom i really liked (many of whom happen to live close as well), i really dont want to hear anyones voice.  Over time it just grated on my nerves more and more.  Nowdays when in a pug and i see someone spam a "join this vent server!!NOW!" macro, my eyes just roll back into my head and im like "no not this shit again".

Fuck talking to nerds on the internet.  I like my intra-faction interaction sanitized by impersonal text, TYVM.

[squirrel]

Dreading the integration of VOIP.  I think one of the reasons i have been so much happier since i bounced on my old server and re-rolled alliance is simply not listening to anyone, ever.  Outside of a few old former guildmates whom i really liked (many of whom happen to live close as well), i really dont want to hear anyones voice.  Over time it just grated on my nerves more and more.  Nowdays when in a pug and i see someone spam a "join this vent server!!NOW!" macro, my eyes just roll back into my head and im like "no not this shit again".

Fuck talking to nerds on the internet.  I like my intra-faction interaction sanitized by impersonal text, TYVM.

Although I like Voice, I can respect this p.o.v as well. It's why my 360's headset is pretty much permanently disconnected. Perhaps I've just been lucky in WoW but I haven't had to deal with too many mouthbreathers on vent, and when I do it's a clear signal to split and go do something else.

[Lantyssa]

I'm not too big on voice chat for the immersion reasons already mentioned.  If I managed to get past that, then I'd end up chatting endlessly about nothing.  My set-up is also a pain to use a headset with.

[Kail]

Fuck talking to nerds on the internet.  I like my intra-faction interaction sanitized by impersonal text, TYVM.

Yeah, ditto.  I have not been favored with stunning conversationalists in my limited grouping experience.  Jackasses who are convinced that I really, honestly give a shit about how drunk they are or that I want to listen in on their bitching about their biology teacher with an IRL friend in the party, or whatever.  Whining about some dumbass taking Snowfall Graveyard again, OMG NOOB, LRN2PLY, Haha, I'm just having fun messing around, well some of us play to win, fuck you, no fuck you, etc. etc.  I get enough of that in text already, voice chat will just make it easier for them, and if it's standard, they'll probably freak out if you turn it off.

I don't doubt that voice chat for guilds would be neat (after all, these are allegedly supposed to be your friends), but for random PUGs, I'm not sure that the signal/noise is going to get much better, and voices are harder to ignore than text.  I'm not going to get up on my soapbox and start denouncing voice chat as evil, I think it could be fun, but I can certainly see where it could also get worse.  I dunno, I guess I'll wait and see.

[Merusk]

All I can say is, The world is leaving the anti-social gaming recluse behind.  Adapt or die.   :-D

[Rasix]

All I can say is, The world is leaving the anti-social gaming recluse behind.  Adapt or die.   :-D

I don't have to adapt.  I just have to tell them my mic is broken.

[squirrel]

All I can say is, The world is leaving the anti-social gaming recluse behind.  Adapt or die.   :-D

I don't have to adapt.  I just have to tell them my mic is broken.

LOL. I laugh because I have used that more times than I can recall...combined with volume/mute it can make even the worst voice situations bearable. And truly - you haven't suffered until you've played on Xbox LIVE for a while. Wow. Just, wow.

[Train Wreck]

Shit, I would never want to hear what someone in the average WoW PUG has to say.

Most people that act like total assholes in text chat are much more subdued over voice chat.

[ajax34i]

Wiping or dying is a lot worse on voice than on text.  I don't care when someone types obscenities in all caps in the raid chat, but when they start yelling FUCK! and it blasts out of my speakers for my neighbors to hear, that's bad.  Yeah, whenever it happened I switched to headphones, and then they blast it in my ear which isn't nice either.

The biggest problem we had was trying to maintain low levels of profanity on vent; people forget and slip up a lot easier when they don't type.

EDIT:  the feature I want the most is an automatic volume normalizer, so that the people who wisper and the idiot who swears at the top of his lungs are played at the same volume for me.  It's a pain trying to adjust everybody's volume manually.

[Hellinar]

All I can say is, The world is leaving the anti-social gaming recluse behind.  Adapt or die.   :-D

There is nothing “anti-social” about using text rather than voice. Some of us think text chat better suits a fantasy world.

I don’t get why people think turning off individual mikes is a solution to a change in the default way a community communicates. VOIP should be optional on a server by server basis. On servers with no universal VOIP, you can still use Vent if you want to. Opting into an optional feature is socially quite different from opting out of a universal feature. If you think the two are equivalent, your understanding of social interaction is broken.

[Miasma]

I play on an RP server, when I resubscribe for the next expansion I just know that at some point a person will try to roleplay over chat and I will injure myself trying to hit alt+f4 as fast as I can.  I mean that's close to LARPing, VARPing if you will.

[Paelos]

I've never ever cared if people wanted to never speak a word over TS while they are in one of the raids I've organized. I do care if they can't hear commands for setup, movements, shifts, or general leadership notes. That's why I want them to have it on to hear, but speaking is totally optional, and I don't usually tolerate a lot of random gab while we are doing something important.

[Merusk]

So much angst for a thowaway joke comment on my part about an optional feature.  Thus the smiley.  Geez take a joke sometimes, guys.

Perhaps fear of hitting to close to the actual mark?  I know I started thinking more on it last night and pondered if it deserved more exam in the MMO/ PC game section.   I think I'll do just that.

[raydeen]

I thought is would be a good idea at first. I've used Vent and TS (for Guild Wars) and while it's no biggie, it would be nice to have the client integrated rather than have 2 programs running at the same time and possibly screwing with each other. Then another thought hit me.

Barrens Chat.
Silvermoon Chat (Barrens Chat 2.0)

My ear drums hurt already.