Virtua Fighter 5 Character & Gameplay Discussion

[stray]

Any of you have a favorite VF character yet? :)

I started off with Akira in quest mode, but I'm digging the kickboxer dude more now. So I'll be focusing on him. I like Sarah too (love the animations). Third in line is Vanessa, the military chick.


I like how the difficulty is set up overall. Real intuitive and simple controls. Not overly complicated, but yet, there's a lot of depth to be discovered -- and it just comes naturally over time. You don't have to study or research a lot. Not sure how to explain it.

Probably won't get to have as much fun as I'd like with this game though. Maybe ever couple weeks or so I'll be able to get some matches going with friends. But I'm happy with the purchase nonetheless. Can't go wrong with having a good fighter around.

[Trippy]

I like how the difficulty is set up overall. Real intuitive and simple controls. Not overly complicated, but yet, there's a lot of depth to be discovered -- and it just comes naturally over time. You don't have to study or research a lot. Not sure how to explain it.

Is this your first VF?

[schild]

I've been playing Pai since Virtua Fighter 1.

Edit: And Yea, Trippy is right. This game is study study study. I just happen to have nearly a decade of Pai experience. Apparently she's considered top tier. Meh, I just like some of her launcher stuff for comboing you while in the air. Well, at least that's how I picked her at first. One of my friends wants me to go to Evo this year. I think I'm gonna take Pai in VF5 there and Akuma (or Ryu)/Dhaslim in MvC2.

[Margalis]

That's my problem with fighting games these days - nobody wants to play them with me. Playing againt the computer is ok but that really isn't the point.

One of the problems is that with something like Madden I'm not that good and neither are my friends, so we can play. But with fighting games I'm better than the other people I know so it isn't that fun for them.

VF has a *lot* of depth and crazy shit...if you don't play against a good player you'll probably only understand half the game. That isn't a slight. There is an entire world of advanced VF techniques that just don't come up vs. the computer.

Playing fighting games against other good players is really a fun experience, teaches you a lot about the game and forces you to get better.

[stray]

I like how the difficulty is set up overall. Real intuitive and simple controls. Not overly complicated, but yet, there's a lot of depth to be discovered -- and it just comes naturally over time. You don't have to study or research a lot. Not sure how to explain it.

Is this your first VF?

I pretty much skipped out on Evo, but I've been playing VF since the very first. I just think this one is a little less complicated than what I've seen before that (well, besides the first). It can be complex -- it's still VF -- but you can also accomplish a lot with just tapping combos this time around. You don't have to do a lot of rotating or directional moving to get into the flow. It's almost catering to the Tekken-ish or 2D-ish mindset (not sloppy button mashing though), while at the same time, being it's own thing as well.

This is also good for friends who aren't really fighting game nuts, and who get frustrated when they feel limited with anything except advanced moves. I think those types could have as much fun with this in a pickup game as Street Fighter.

Secondly, I could imagine these newbs winning a lot of games if they got the feel for air attacks (err...by air attack, I mean when your opponent's falling after a hit, and you keep on attacking them before they hit the ground. You could finish someone off quick this way, without any elaborate moves at all. Just requires good timing).

EDIT

Apparently she's considered top tier.

Top tier for this game, already? Or just in general? Everything seems really slick and balanced to me.

[Calantus]

We don't play normal fighting games in this house anymore. The first few games are really fun where we're messing about with characters and pressing buttons. Shortly after that we'll pick a character or character combo and sit down and learn their moves. Then we'll have a few games that are fun where we're exploring our character moves and still not serious. But eventually we figure out that B is stupid against X character, and when Y character does Z you do A to counter and so on. The games then devolve into tournament-like wankery where only a small set of moves are valid and every moment has 1, maybe 2 valid actions and the loser is decided by who managed to slip up that one time during the whole fight. We have to take off time limits or we'd almost never get KOs, it's totally retarded. So yeah, playing against an equal opponent is not always candy and rainbows. It might be fun if we had more opponents but with just the 2 of us it gets very stale very quick.

Pocket fighter and Bushido Blade are the only ones that didn't go to crap because of this. Pocket Fighter because we can't seem to take it seriously if we tried, and BB because the whole thing is meant to be a whole bunch of blocks until the killing blow lands.

[schild]

My record against one of my friends tonight was like 36 wins and 4 losses. I played as Pai the whole time. After I won about 21 times in a row, we went to go look at the tiers at Virtuafighter.com and such.

Yea, she's definately top tier.

[stray]

To derail a bit (well, not really): That Shao-Lin level with the fog looks amazing.


Also, I might drop Brad. Sarah is pretty awesome and easier to play.

[schild]

Rough tier list, according to some discussion at Virtuafighter.com:

S: Shun, Pai
A: Vanessa, Eileen, Kage, Lei Fei
B: Brad, Wolf, Lau, Jacky
C: Akira, Goh
D: Lion, Sarah, Aoi
E: Jeffry, El Blaze

The only one that really surprised me there was Goh, I figured he was at least a B. El Blaze being on the bottom isn't too shocking. He breaks down in mid-high level play. I'm not sure I'd personally rank Vanessa at A, maybe B - possibly even C. Depends on who's playing her of course. She's probably the hardest A rank character to kick solid ass with. I've seen some good Akira stuff, I'd probably put him in B.

[stray]

Pocket fighter and Bushido Blade are the only ones that didn't go to crap because of this. Pocket Fighter because we can't seem to take it seriously if we tried, and BB because the whole thing is meant to be a whole bunch of blocks until the killing blow lands.

To me, BB is the real deal. I don't understand why there aren't many sequels or even clones. I say this all the time when I gripe about MMO combat too -- I want more games with a high amount of defense like that.

The other thing I miss in fighting games is just extremely wild and flashy moves. I like a lot of the moves in older 2D fighters that had effects that made the whole screen flash. Especially finishers.

I like the semi-realistic take most 3D fighters go for too (where VF is probably the standard), but in the end, I prefer the former.

Hell, you guys may laugh when I say this, but I'm even tempted to get that DBZ game whenever I grab a Wii, just because it's flashy (I'm not a fan of DB though, but I don't hate it either). That control scheme looks difficult though.

[stray]

Rough tier list, according to some discussion at Virtuafighter.com:

S: Shun, Pai
A: Vanessa, Eileen, Kage, Lei Fei
B: Brad, Wolf, Lau, Jacky
C: Akira, Goh
D: Lion, Sarah, Aoi
E: Jeffry, El Blaze

The only one that really surprised me there was Goh, I figured he was at least a B. El Blaze being on the bottom isn't too shocking. He breaks down in mid-high level play. I'm not sure I'd personally rank Vanessa at A, maybe B - possibly even C. Depends on who's playing her of course. She's probably the hardest A rank character to kick solid ass with. I've seen some good Akira stuff, I'd probably put him in B.

I figured a pretty cool ground stomping move for Vanessa (it's the highest damaging move I can pull off so far on any character), but yeah, she's a little hard. She feels cool though, which is all that matters to me (powerful or not).

I'm starting to dig Lei Fei too --- Guy does some cool shit, and the way he segues into different moves and switches stances is badass. Animations are top notch.

But I want to customize him into a non-Monk. Heh. Wonder if I can even give him hair?  :-D


I don't think I'll ever like Aoi, Goh, or Lion.

[stray]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Simple and powerful combo any newb could do:

R2 (power kick) + L1 (grappling move) + arrow up and X (flying elbow smash while they're on the floor)


Haven't tried it on all characters. Vanessa will almost instantly kill you with that though (137 damage out of 200 --- 35 + 40 + 62)

[Yegolev]

Secondly, I could imagine these newbs winning a lot of games if they got the feel for air attacks (err...by air attack, I mean when your opponent's falling after a hit, and you keep on attacking them before they hit the ground. You could finish someone off quick this way, without any elaborate moves at all. Just requires good timing).

Called a "juggle" in the lingo.  One of the things I liked about VF4Evo was how it dropped the fourth wall, as it were, and was set up with you playing as a guy that went around to arcades and being on the vs-fighter scene.  I actually learned about a lot of things that I was only mildly aware of due to that design, and the way it actually taught you (or tried to, heh) how to play against a human.  I don't think it got as in-depth as counting frames, but I thought it was interesting and well-done.

[stray]

Secondly, I could imagine these newbs winning a lot of games if they got the feel for air attacks (err...by air attack, I mean when your opponent's falling after a hit, and you keep on attacking them before they hit the ground. You could finish someone off quick this way, without any elaborate moves at all. Just requires good timing).

Called a "juggle" in the lingo.

Ah yeah. I knew there was a word for it. 

One of the things I liked about VF4Evo was how it dropped the fourth wall, as it were, and was set up with you playing as a guy that went around to arcades and being on the vs-fighter scene.  I actually learned about a lot of things that I was only mildly aware of due to that design, and the way it actually taught you (or tried to, heh) how to play against a human.  I don't think it got as in-depth as counting frames, but I thought it was interesting and well-done.

Like I said, I didn't play Evo, but they did the arcade thing here too. Apparently it's better than before.
[/quote]

[Yegolev]

Ngh.  Ugh.  Well, I guess I'm getting this now.  Thanks, fucker.

[Moaner]

This is my first VF since 2.  I had no idea a fighting game could be this complex.  I'm in love.

I played around with Eileen for a few hours yesterday and I think I'm going to stick with her for a bit.  She's pretty easy to pick up but at the same time seems to have a lot of depth to her style.  I just wish her win/lose animations weren't so embarrassing. 

I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread for tips and tricks.

[Calantus]

Hmmm. Ok, so I have 2 questions about VF5 that might see me buying it:

1) How good is the singleplayer portion? Is it as bad as a lot of fighting games where you just fight maybe 10 different AI and that's it, or does it try to actually validate itself somewhat on the solo side?
2) Is it much deeper than the Tekken series? (the last fighting game we played was I think Tekken Tag)

[Margalis]

It is deeper than Tekken. But again playing single-player it really won't matter that much. Depth only comes into play against humans for the most part.

[schild]

It's deeper than Tekken.

As for the AI, there's at least 20 different levels of AI that I've played from 10kyu all the way up to 10dan. And here I thought Go was the only game that used that ranking system. Anyway, yea, AI is pretty good and kicks my ass around 6 dan and up.

[stray]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply this game wasn't deep. It's hardcore, but a little more accessible and rewarding on the surface level. It can be welcoming to Tekken fans, but then they'll find it goes further than that. It wouldn't be easy to master even one fighter in this game.

[Yegolev]

I took my first loss at 2nd dan from a 3rd dan that actually knew how to block, costing me a tournament and a perfect 54-0 run.  Oh well.

Lei Fei.

[stray]

[EDIT]

Wait a second. Back to the drawing board. Forget this post. 

[stray]

Guide by Srider

I don't think he's done, but there's a lot of useful stuff here (with video too).

[Yegolev]

Nice.

I would like to say that this is the first time I have felt good about using a wireless controller in a fighting game.  I guess this is the first real compliment I have given the Sixaxis as well.

[stray]

If I knew how, I'd share flOw with you. I'm surprised by how well the Sixaxis motion can work at least.

[schild]

You have to give the other person your login and password for the PSN. They log in as you and go to downloaded items in the store. They then redownload it and are keyed as one of the 5 PS3s the game is on.

[stray]

I'm cool with that Yeg. PM me if you're interested.

[Yegolev]

It's on the TODO list, thanks.  The controller-wiggling in Resistance is retarded.

[stray]

MUA is more retarded (though you can turn it off).

After flOw though, I expect something like Lair to be pretty cool.

[stray]

What would you change about this game?

I think it's pretty much the best 3D fighting engine and all that...Nothing or little really needs to change about the gameplay....But....

I wish they had more characters to offer. Scratch that, I think they need a complete revamp on character designs (not the moves, just the looks). VF has never been good about this, and I wish they'd rethink it. Some characters like Pai, Lau, and Lei Fei are great as they are, but others are just boring, ugly, and more tacky than the usual fighting genre stuff. Guilty Gear, SC, and Tekken just have cooler character concepts overall.

I love playing VF, but I've never in been love with the artwork or character design like I have in other games.

Secondly, I'm not liking the whole one character per profile shit. I'd rather have the ability to save all changes, progress, and upgrades under one name. This is irritating.

Third, a better training system.

[Yegolev]

Better training would be nice.  All I know is that I'm somehow doing the move wrong, not exactly what I am doing.  A simple display of my button presses as read by the game would be an incredible improvement.

I guess character design is all about opinion, at least with me.  Still, Tekken > VF > DOA.