Boner pop

[Kenrick]

http://www.local6.com/news/6807099/detail.html

I'm gonna get stocked up on this shit in preparation for the release of Naughty America.  Who's with me?

[HaemishM]

Fuck the Dew, DO THE SODA!

Does the can come with a pocket pussy, or just an airsick bag?

[Nebu]

Being the geek that I am, I tried to get active ingredient information on that stuff.  No luck yet.  My Google-fu is sub-par today.

[Signe]

Specific Ingredients:

Ginseng: this root has been used in China for thousands of years to cure and prevent diseases and to ensure a long and happy life. A number of Ginseng's positive effects on humans have been documented, including improved physical and psychological performance, improved mood and ability to concentrate.

Ginkgo Biloba: prepared from the tree of the same name, this botanical is associated with increased circulation and therefore improvements in memory, cognitive function and circulatory disorders; also considered an antioxidant.

Guarana: seeds from these bushes that grow in parts of tropical South America are gathered, dried in the sun and then ground into a fine powder. Indians have known about the powder's energizing effect and use it when hunting to give them energy and stamina. A natural caffeine, Guarana's effects have been medically proven.

Schizandra: a small red fruit from a large bush that is native to China. Both the fruit and roots have been used as a medicinal herb for centuries in China. The herb is used primarily for its aphrodisiac, stimulant and energy giving effects.

Taurine: an amino acid that naturally occurs in the body in levels sufficient to sustain everyday needs but in times of increased physical exertion the human body's supply of Taurine falls short of requirements. Taurine works as a stimulant providing increased energy and stamina while improving concentration.

Caffeine: an alkaloid that is found naturally in tea, cola nuts and chocolate as well as in coffee. Caffeine has a stimulating effect on the body, and it reduces fatigue.

Carbon Dioxide: a colorless, odorless, tasteless gas that provides the sparkle in carbonated beverages.

Citric Acid: an organic carboxylic acid extracted from various tart fruits to flavor drinks.

Glucose & Sucrose: simple carbohydrates which constitute an essential source of energy.

Glucuronolactone: an endogenous substance, found from glucose, which acts as a detoxifier and an agent in the decomposition of catabolites. This ingredient working in combination with the other ingredients provides a smooth tasting beverage.

Vitamins: of which there are many, featured heavily in stimulation and fortified beverages.

http://www.2turnon.com/

[schild]

Everything is an aphrodesiac in china.

[kaid]

Hell my computer chair is an aphrodesiac in china.

kaid

[Nebu]

Thanks Signe. 

Basically it has the same stuff in it that nearly every other "energy drink" contains.  The amounts may vary.

On a side note: It still amazes me that people will cram a handful of pills in their mouth made from some leaf extract with no scientific backing, but be highly critical of an agent that survived 5 years of scrutiny from the AMA and FDA.  As someone that educates pharmacists and physicians for a living, you can not prepare anyone for the way people think. 

[Viin]

What exactly are you referring to?

Personally, I just don't like man-made sh!t. That doesn't mean I snort Tea Tree Oil or anything.

[Nebu]

I'll give you an example:

St. John's Wort.  An herbal people can get readily OTC (over the counter) and often use for things like depression, etc.  Most do not inform their physician that they are taking herbals and think that since it is "all natural" that there is no way it can have any kind of negative effect on normal physiologic function.

Because of the interaction St. John's Wort has on a number of CYP isozymes, we can see the following problems with MANY common medications. These are just a few of the many that we're becoming more aware of daily:

Cyclosporine – Acute transplant rejection - heart
Digoxin – decreased absorption via induction of P-glycoprotein
Oral contraceptives – induces CYP3A4 that metabolize OC steroids
Protease inhibitors - induces CYP3A4 that metabolize indinavir
SSRI’s – serotonin syndrome (increased 5-HT)
Theophylline – induces CYP1A2 overproduction
Anticoagulants – induces CYP2C9 overproduction that metabolize warfarin --> decreased activity

Reference: Keeping up:  Drug Interactions with St. John’s Wort in Drugs Facts and Comparisons NEWS pgs. 34-38 (May 2000)

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a believer in herbal remedies.  I just don't think that we know enough about the actions/interactions of them well enough to use them as casually as we do.  There is almost no regulation on the herbal supplement market and the risk for side-effects can be great.  I just want people to better educate themselves before cramming herbals down their throat.  Hell, most people can't even articulate the difference in a multivitamin let alone discuss the ramifications of taking Ginko, St. John's Wort, and a couple others while on common prescription meds.

Hope that helps.

On another note: that "man-made shit" you don't like is often the purified active ingredient from an herbal that took years of hard work to isolate and understand.  Most drugs are either directly obtained from a natural substance or derived closely from one.  Structurally there's very little difference between heroin, morphine, and codeine.

[Kenrick]

Boners to acute transplant rejection in record time.

INTERNETS!

[Nebu]

Boners to acute transplant rejection in record time.

INTERNETS!

You're right... posting drug metabolism info on a gamer forum was probably a bad idea.

Just trying to help.

[Viin]

Well, at least *I* appreciate it. You guys don't start enough interesting topics to keep a guy from being bored all day anyways.

But I do see what you are saying Nebu. I think folks in general take way too many things for problems they may or may not have. I take a few herbal suppliments now and again, but I don't take any meds and would consult with my mom (who happens to have some training as a herbalist) before taking anything new. Most people just read the bottle (oh! good for memory! I have memory problems!) and pop away.

Trying to get back on topic...

Does anyone wonder if the movement towards low self esteem (especially in men) is caused by having such things pushed on us? Did we ever think we had a problem "performing" before the Viagra ads told us we did? Granted, I'm young but I hear of guys my age (mid to upper 20s) going for this stuff hook like and sinker.

[Strazos]

People go WAY overboard on medicine.

Hell, the only kind of pills I have taken in the last few Years have been ibuprofen for headaches, an OTC antihistamine in Italy (something in Rome made my allergies go nuts),  and Dramamine for my yearly voyages to and from northern Vermont.

Most meds are for suckers - give your immune system a workout every now and then, so that when something bad is actually introduced into your body, your immune system doesn't just huddle in a corner and cry.

[Righ]

The best herbal medicines can only be bought OTC in Dutch coffee shops.

[Sky]

Depends on the counter, really.

[Strazos]

Just look for one of these.

[HaemishM]

Boners to acute transplant rejection in record time.

INTERNETS!

You're right... posting drug metabolism info on a gamer forum was probably a bad idea.

Just trying to help.

Fuck it, don't stop now. Tell me what the difference in multivitamins is, and what I shouldn't be taking with them.

[schild]

Also, what weight loss pills work? Are there any weight loss pills that work? Some of us just don't like exercise. And some more of us can't be stuck in a vietnamese prison for 8 years to come out looking like teh Haemish.

/kekela? ^_^;

[Nebu]

Fuck it, don't stop now. Tell me what the difference in multivitamins is, and what I shouldn't be taking with them.

Since you asked... THIS is a great place to start.  Linus is the reason I went into science.  The few times I had the priviledge to chat with him were high points in my life. 

Also, what weight loss pills work? Are there any weight loss pills that work? Some of us just don't like exercise. And some more of us can't be stuck in a vietnamese prison for 8 years to come out looking like teh Haemish.

/kekela? ^_^;

I hate to tell you but the best way to lose weight remains the same as always: Take in fewer calories than you require for your BMR (Basal metabolic rate).  I lift weights not for vanity, but because it allows me to eat more without gaining weight. 

If you must consider adding a drug, they fall into classes. Drugs that mimic a sympathomimetic response (like amphetamines) seem to consistently perform best.  That's why people used ephedra (Ma Huang) to cut weight, particularly weightlifters.  It simulates a fight or flight response that, in essence, turns off digestion.  Of course, we know what the side-effects can be.

Note: I realize schild was being sarcastic, but someone might find this even remotely interesting. Maybe not...

[schild]

I'm not fat, I'm just too lazy to be skinny. 

[Samwise]

If you must consider adding a drug, they fall into classes. Drugs that mimic a sympathomimetic response (like amphetamines) seem to consistently perform best.  That's why people used ephedra (Ma Huang) to cut weight, particularly weightlifters.  It simulates a fight or flight response that, in essence, turns off digestion.  Of course, we know what the side-effects can be.

I took Metabolife (ephedra) for a little while, back before ephedra became a controlled substance.  It was an interesting experience - I had LOTS of energy (probably partially because I was still consuming caffeine, against the recommendations on the bottle, because I'm a caffeine addict and didn't want to get withdrawal headaches).  As in, kinda scary amounts of energy, with a noticeably faster heart rate, even at rest.  It freaked me out and I stopped.

I'm intrigued by this Hoodia gordonii thing - from the Interweb research I've done on it, it pushes the "I've got energy and food to spare" button in the brain without actually supplying significant calories, so you end up with lowered appetite and increased energy, presumably resulting in lots of fat getting burned.  There seem to be a couple of genuine suppliers out there in between the hundreds of mountebanks, and I've been thinking about ordering a sample to see how it is.  Any thoughts, Neb?

[Nebu]

I'm intrigued by this Hoodia gordonii thing - from the Interweb research I've done on it, it pushes the "I've got energy and food to spare" button in the brain without actually supplying significant calories, so you end up with lowered appetite and increased energy, presumably resulting in lots of fat getting burned.  There seem to be a couple of genuine suppliers out there in between the hundreds of mountebanks, and I've been thinking about ordering a sample to see how it is.  Any thoughts, Neb?

Ok... I took a look at the recent literature and a few patent applications.  As expected, the patents were vague enough to not offer much in the way of science.  That's their job.  I did find a nice article from Brain Research that I've browsed with a few reactions.  (the reference is MacLean, D. B.; Luo, L.-G.  Brain Research 2004, 1020, 1-11.)

A steroidal glycoside with anorectic activity in animals, termed P57AS3 (P57), was isolated from Hoodia gordonii and found to have homologies to the steroidal core of cardiac glycosides. Intracerebroventricular (i.c.v.) injections of the purified P57AS3 demonstrated that the compound has a likely central (CNS) mechanism of action. There is no evidence of P57AS3 binding to or altering activity of known receptors or proteins, including Na/K-ATPase, the putative target of cardiac glycosides. The studies demonstrated that the compound increases the content of ATP by 50–150% in hypothalamic neurons. In addition, third ventricle (i.c.v.) administration of P57, which reduces subsequent 24-h food intake by 40–60%, also increases ATP content in hypothalamic slice punches removed at 24 h following the i.c.v. injections. In related studies, in pair fed rats fed a low calorie diet for 4 days, the content of ATP in the hypothalami of control i.c.v. injected animals fell by 30–50%, which was blocked by i.c.v. injections of P57AS3. With growing evidence of metabolic or nutrient-sensing by the hypothalamus, ATP may be a common currency of energy sensing, which in turn may trigger the appropriate neural, endocrine and appetitive responses as similar to other fundamental hypothalamic homeostatic centers for temperature and osmolarity.

That's the abstract with the "important bits" emphasized.  It appears that some South African populations have been using the sap for years as an appetite suppressant during long trips and without side effects.  Preliminary testing by the company that started distributing it (Phytopharm, I believe) seems to show that it doesn't appear to have any major problems associated with it.  Since it's primarily a cardioglycoside in structure, I'd begin to worry about what chronic use might do... but there aren't any scientific data available to support my suspicions. 

If I had to give this one a "gut level" reaction, I'd say that it's probably a reasonably safe and effective means to curtail appetite for a short window of time.  I wouldn't recommend the use of it for any lengthy periods and I would certainly have concerns about its use in the presence of prescription agents without further testing. 

Hope that helps.

Note: The article looked at the compound that was perceived to be the active ingredient.  Should that prove to not be the case, I'll have to reassess the nature of this agent's activity. 

[Samwise]

That's about what I'd gotten from my Google-fu.     I'm not currently on any prescription meds so I reckon I'm a pretty safe guinea pig... maybe I'll go ahead and order a bottle from one of the "reputable" suppliers and see what's what.  Thanks!

[Nebu]

I'm sorry I wasn't much better than Google.  It's tough to be really critical without more first-hand information.  I'm going to help a colleague look some stuff up on this for his herbals class.  If I come across anything, I'll drop you a PM.

[Samwise]

I'm sorry I wasn't much better than Google.

Not at all, it's good to confirm I hadn't gotten swindled by misleading information on teh Intarwebs.  Not that the Intarweb ever contains inaccurate or biased information.

[Yegolev]

SSRI’s – serotonin syndrome (increased 5-HT)

Can you dumb this down a tad?  I assume it's bad.  My wife isn't taking the wort, but it's good to be informed in case she wants to try it.

[Nebu]

SSRI’s – serotonin syndrome (increased 5-HT)

Can you dumb this down a tad?  I assume it's bad.  My wife isn't taking the wort, but it's good to be informed in case she wants to try it.

I hate the term "dumb it down".  How about clarify 

SSRI = Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors.  This is a class of compounds most commonly prescribed for uncomplicated depression.  Examples include: Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, and Lexapro.  They work by increasing local concentrations of the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-HT) by limiting its removal from the synaptic cleft.  If SSRI's are in too high of a concentration, a nasty side effect called "serotonin syndrome" can occur.

Research suggests that St John’s wort may also increase the levels in the brain of the neurotransmitter serotonin by an additive or potentiating effect on other medicines. Medicines which may interact with St John’s wort in this way include the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants (e.g. fluoxetine, paroxetine), other antidepressants affecting serotonin levels (e.g. nefazodone), and some migraine treatments (e.g. sumatriptan, naratriptan). These additive interactions may result in a variety of symptoms such as mental state changes, autonomic dysfunction (sweating, increased blood pressure) and motor effects consistent with what is often referred to as serotonin syndrome.

Hope that helps.


   

[Yegolev]

Hope that helps.

Immensely.  Took me a little effort to relocate this thread but, yes, this is very useful information.

[Kenrick]

Damn it Samwise... your can't have an avatar of Haemish... that's just too damn confusing!

[Hokers]

Interestingly enough House just had an episode that involved seritonin syndrome.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=151&story=8838&page=1

Now of course you are only going to see the one in a million worst case senerio on that show, or it would not be as dramatic.

[Yegolev]

Now of course you are only going to see the one in a million worst case senerio on that show, or it would not be as dramatic.

Hey, sometimes this shit happens in RL.  Knowledge is power.