WAR - Warhammer Online - Jan Newsletter

[schild]

I disagree with what you said, not so much in spirit but in implementation.

The good fantasy/steampunk/sci-fi stuff would never make a good MMOG. Yea, I know, it's a catch-22. MMOGs need vivid settings and reasons to explore. I've no interest in exploring the world of Jennifer Government or Bladerunner. I don't even have interest in exploring the world of Diamond Age or Snow Crash. These things are one off stories to me. They simply don't make good MMOGs. The worlds that are created by the fantasy novelists are what make good games. There might be an interesting way to make a single player game of Snow Crash, but an MMOG - not really. And that's the crux of the problem.

Our developers and storywriters suck balls at making a world compelling.

[tazelbain]

Bad mouthes American Gods and Gunslinger.

You suck.

[kaid]

Sigh I just want a good Shadowrun mmrpg or hell even a good shadowrun rpg game for one of the more modern consoles. I wore out my snes and my genesis shadowrun games ages ago.

kaid

[Alkiera]

Sigh I just want a good Shadowrun mmrpg or hell even a good shadowrun rpg game for one of the more modern consoles. I wore out my snes and my genesis shadowrun games ages ago.

kaid

They recently release a new main Shadowrun book, done by the 4th owner of the system.  It's now very much like a d6 version of WW's Storyteller.  The timeline has advanced, etc.  It looks pretty decent.

Alkiera

[kaid]

Ya I saw that although I have not picked it up yet but I likely will soonish. They also put out a couple new novels which are not bad popcorn reads.


kaid

[schild]

Bad mouthes American Gods and Gunslinger.

You suck.

No one bad mouthed either. Go re-read the post. Set the difficulty level to easy this time.

[Hoax]

I disagree with what you said, not so much in spirit but in implementation.

The good fantasy/steampunk/sci-fi stuff would never make a good MMOG. Yea, I know, it's a catch-22. MMOGs need vivid settings and reasons to explore. I've no interest in exploring the world of Jennifer Government or Bladerunner. I don't even have interest in exploring the world of Diamond Age or Snow Crash. These things are one off stories to me. They simply don't make good MMOGs. The worlds that are created by the fantasy novelists are what make good games. There might be an interesting way to make a single player game of Snow Crash, but an MMOG - not really. And that's the crux of the problem.

Our developers and storywriters suck balls at making a world compelling.

Horseshit, they would make fine MMO settings but they wouldn't be "true" to the cannon or whatever stupid terms SW fanbois use for the inclusion of anything for gameplay purposes.  The worlds of Diamond Age, Snow Crash or Neuromancer would make the fine starting point for a game.  The problem is, that somehow creativity and established IP can not coexist in games.  None of those books are designed in the sweeping, you can have the universes timeline if you take enough notes while reading, style that some fantasy is written in.  But that is not to say they can't be an interesting starting point, and lord knows devs seem to need all the help they can get when it comes to anything remotely resembling original thought.

[tazelbain]

No one bad mouthed either. Go re-read the post. Set the difficulty level to easy this time.

Ya. My fault. All I saw was Mohammod with a hat bomb...

[schild]

Hoax, the owners of the original IP want them to stick to continuity and canon also. They don't want to take a chance on a developer making a more compelling world than the original authors.

[Johny Cee]

I disagree with what you said, not so much in spirit but in implementation.

The good fantasy/steampunk/sci-fi stuff would never make a good MMOG. Yea, I know, it's a catch-22. MMOGs need vivid settings and reasons to explore. I've no interest in exploring the world of Jennifer Government or Bladerunner. I don't even have interest in exploring the world of Diamond Age or Snow Crash. These things are one off stories to me. They simply don't make good MMOGs. The worlds that are created by the fantasy novelists are what make good games. There might be an interesting way to make a single player game of Snow Crash, but an MMOG - not really. And that's the crux of the problem.

Our developers and storywriters suck balls at making a world compelling.

Horseshit, they would make fine MMO settings but they wouldn't be "true" to the cannon or whatever stupid terms SW fanbois use for the inclusion of anything for gameplay purposes.  The worlds of Diamond Age, Snow Crash or Neuromancer would make the fine starting point for a game.  The problem is, that somehow creativity and established IP can not coexist in games.  None of those books are designed in the sweeping, you can have the universes timeline if you take enough notes while reading, style that some fantasy is written in.  But that is not to say they can't be an interesting starting point, and lord knows devs seem to need all the help they can get when it comes to anything remotely resembling original thought.

In general, sci fi (especially cyberpunk) when the technology is edited out makes a real shitty base for anything.  The grasp of politics, economics and human behavior is poor and secondary towards a Cause.  Either the evil of (insert government/socio-economic system/large corporations) or the author's daydreaming about utopia.

If the author is good,  then the rest of the bits are nice.  Kim Stanley Robinson, for instance,  writes some great charactes with good interrelationships.  I still wanted to beat him for the whole eco-economics/anti-capitalism screeds laced throughout his "Mars" trilogy.

Creativity CAN exist in MMOs.  The problem is repitition.  How often do we even re-read great books?  In an MMO, you get bombarded with the same messages over and over in the simple course of playing such that the feeling of all originality is drained out.

I see it as a technology issue.  Until NPCs and mobs can move from short scripts and set behaviors it'll feel like we're interacting with obessive-compulsive retards.  Plot is out of the question.

Theme, on the other hand.....   A world with a well-designed and orchastrated theme can seem compelling even if the npcs are on the same short scripts as everyone else, and no story develops. 

[cevik]

I disagree with what you said, not so much in spirit but in implementation.

The good fantasy/steampunk/sci-fi stuff would never make a good MMOG. Yea, I know, it's a catch-22. MMOGs need vivid settings and reasons to explore. I've no interest in exploring the world of Jennifer Government or Bladerunner. I don't even have interest in exploring the world of Diamond Age or Snow Crash. These things are one off stories to me. They simply don't make good MMOGs. The worlds that are created by the fantasy novelists are what make good games. There might be an interesting way to make a single player game of Snow Crash, but an MMOG - not really. And that's the crux of the problem.

Our developers and storywriters suck balls at making a world compelling.

Neuromancer would make an awesome setting for a mmog. 

I agree with you about Philip K. Dick's stuff, the background was more of a setting for the narrative, not a world.  The story didn't involve androids to speak to us of the future, it involved androids to show us a difficult moral delima that exists all around us.  Snow Crash is the same way, the world existed to further the story, not to exist as a viable world.  The concepts in the world of Snow Crash were intentionaly hyperbolic, they were never intended to feel real or to be a setting for more than the story of Snow Crash itself.  The world existed simply to further the story.

But Neuromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive.. now THAT setting could be made into a mmog with ease.  The story took place in a world, the world wasn't simply a device used to further the story.

[Fargull]

Hmm...

Cyberpunk / Neuromancer would be interesting, Firefly would be interesting, Babylon 5 would not.  I really did not like the layout of Star Wars because the focus of the back story was mainly the Rebel vs. the Empire, but the game tried to provide an atmosphere outside of that frame work, but never felt open.

I would not mind seeing a post apocalyptic world, not car wars, but more Horse Clans or Stone of Pelbar.

[Dren]

Hmm...

Cyberpunk / Neuromancer would be interesting, Firefly would be interesting, Babylon 5 would not.  I really did not like the layout of Star Wars because the focus of the back story was mainly the Rebel vs. the Empire, but the game tried to provide an atmosphere outside of that frame work, but never felt open.

I would not mind seeing a post apocalyptic world, not car wars, but more Horse Clans or Stone of Pelbar.

I seem to say this each week.  Make a Dark Tower MMOG.  The setting is the Dark Tower world with all kinds of doors leading in and out of it.  Magic, guns, spirits, demons, but all in a post apoclyptic world where technology is fading away but still dangerous and mingles with magic in strange and unpredictable ways.  Humans, muties, Cantoy (head of animals/body of human,) etc.  Good sometimes evil, evil sometimes good, no black and white.

There never was a good timeline since time itself was all screwed up, but place the game in between the time of Thunderclap and The Good Man where there were armies of gunslingers hunting out evil (red) and spreading good (white) wherever they roamed.

[Hoax]

Just make something that isn't vanilla fantasy and doesn't suck and I'll love you long time.  I'm not even going to bother being more picky then that.

[Yegolev]

I'd give a Shadowrun MMOG a shot.  There are already text versions out there, should be easy to swipe a la Verant.