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Author Topic: Kaboom go the Reapers  (Read 9165 times)
El Gallo
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on: September 22, 2005, 08:09:36 AM

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4981387&p=1&tmp=1#post4981387

Quote
Originally Posted by Eyonix
The mechanics of most instant melee attacks will be modified to improve item balance upon the release of patch version 1.8. Currently, instant melee attacks do damage based on the damage range of the weapon, plus a bonus for the player’s attack power. This bonus is then multiplied by the speed of the weapon. As a result, slow weapons do more damage than is intended, and fast weapons are considered inferior by most players. We are changing the way the attack power bonus is calculated for instant attacks. This change will NOT affect attack power calculations for normal melee attacks. Instead of multiplying by the speed of the weapon, the attack power bonus will be multiplied by a fixed number pulled from the following table:

Two-handed weapons: 3.3
Daggers: 1.7
All other one-handed weapons: 2.4

As a direct result of this, many weapons will shift position in their relative power. In particular, many epic (purple) quality items will now be more powerful than slower superior (blue) weapons. For the purpose of instant attacks, the Arcanite Reaper and the Barman Shanker will drop slightly in relative power, while Typhoon and Alcor’s Sunrazor will increase in power.

We expect to see the total damage output of a Mortal Strike warrior go down about 4% with the Arcanite Reaper, and up about 4% with Typhoon. We expect the total damage output of a Backstab rogue to go down about 2% with the Barman Shanker and up about 2% with Alcor’s Sunrazor.

This change was not made to reduce the power of instant attacks, but to correct the relative imbalance of weapon itemization. At a given level requirement, epic quality weapons should always be more powerful than superior quality weapons.

Please also note that all normal weapon swings will be completely unaffected by this change. The following abilities are affected by the design change: Sinister Strike, Ambush, Backstab, Whirlwind, Mortal Strike, and Overpower.

I can't believe they didn't do this in beta.  There will be much howling now because so many people built their characters around this.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
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Reply #1 on: September 22, 2005, 08:15:10 AM

Ok, I'm not a math guy. I'm not an idiot, but after 7th grade, math just really passed me by. But does it not seem fucking stupid that you would multiply the damage by the speed of the weapon? I mean, when you consider that a fast weapon has a lower speed (say 1.40 for a good fast weapon) and a slower weapon has a higher speed (say a 2.30), it would stand to reason that slow weapons would be vastly superior. Why would you even calculate it like that? I'd heard that slow weapons were better for damage, but I didn't know why. Now that I do, I just shake my head and ask, "WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING?"

Daggers will now be really plinky weapons, unless they are super fast. Thanks, jacakasses.

El Gallo
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Reply #2 on: September 22, 2005, 08:25:50 AM

This is how I think the brain process went:

1. Having an attack power stat is a fun and easy way of having damage not be entirely weapon dependant, giving players more choices about how they want to set up their gear.

2. The two obvious candidates for effects of an attack power stat are (a) adds flat damage to every attack or (b) adds dps.

3.  Because (a) makes fast weapons obscenely powerful in an easy-to-see way, let's do (b) even though it favors slow weapons in a harder-to-see way.
    (note that they nerfed almost everything in the game that added flat damage like "a" (+spell damage on fast spells old shaman buffs)

As time goes by, it becauses more and more obvious that shit is fucked up because of 3(b), and even though everyone knew this 12 months ago, Blizzard takes forever to get off their ass and do anything, so they come up with this new system where AP doesn't really add dps anymore, it adds some flat damage based on the type of weapon you have.

The new attack power stat favors weapons that are faster than the new "assumed" speed, but keep in mind that slower weapons tend do more damage/swing, and these instant attacks still do that damage in addition to the AP bonus damage.

All of the above may well be wrong.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2005, 12:05:06 PM by El Gallo »

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Morfiend
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Reply #3 on: September 22, 2005, 10:22:09 AM

Wonderful. There goes a big chunck of damage on my rogue.
Righ
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Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 10:30:38 AM

They have 'overlooked' hunters at this point. Currently a shitty blue 3.3s crossbow is much better than a shiny purple molten core 2.5s bow for both burst and sustained damage. The only time you would use the epic is when you cannot use auto-shot, such as tight instances where junk is crowd controlled near the primary target.

However, this is probably 'not intended' behaviour either, and they're just going to apply a change to the hunters without announcing anything in order to (a) keep with tradition (b) avoid another billion elves posting the same thread over and over.

My warrior can make arcanite reapers on Earthen Ring if you want to pay a fortune for a shit axe.

There is going to be gnaashing and wailing from all rogues, warriors, paladins and hunters as people start to understand the implications of this. Shaman will of course be delighted, as their best moves are DPS dependant, not speed dependant. Except that other people will now roll on weapons they had a near monopoly on.

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Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 10:45:21 AM

Not much of a math guy either (err..I'm in a hurry atm..Yeah, that's it!), but...

How does this affect my DW Fury/Arms build? If anything, I'm going for one handers (epic and otherwise) and dps/speed. Mortal Strike/Arcanite just seemed too cookie cutter to me (and boring).
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Reply #6 on: September 22, 2005, 11:01:59 AM

Meh? This change doesn't affect many of the abilities I use day-to-day, save Overpower, which is almost entirely a PvP anti-rogue ability for me. I find it odd that they didn't mention Slam or Cleave. If I recall right, the tooltips for those both state that they cause weapon damage plus a constant, which fits in with Overpower, SS and the other mentioned abilities.

Since Heroic Strike adds to my effective attack power (I think; the tooltip is hard to understand), I think my primary rage-to-dps outlet is intact.

Of course, I also tend to favor moderately fast (1.7-2.2) 1-handed weapons in order to increase rage generation in PvE and fast (2.5 or under) 2-handed weapons in PvP in order to increase Overpower activations.

In fact, given those preferences, my build may have just gotten a nice little buff.  :-D
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Reply #7 on: September 22, 2005, 12:13:46 PM

Nobody's build got a buff, and it doesn't change the cookie cutter builds' dependance on slow weapons. Instant attacks still favor slow weapons. Just because a two hander multiplies your atatck power DPS bonus by a fixed 3.3, doesn't mean you get more for less. If an attack happens every 6 seconds due to cooldown, the larger the attack you make every six seconds, the more inpact it will have on your overall DPS. However, because faster weapons now get a significant increase, its not all just about the speed, and DPS has a more important role.

Assuming a 700 attack power warrior (700/14 = 50 DPS bonus), the BASE damage on an INSTANT attack changes like this -

Arcanite Reaper 1.7: (53.8 + 50) * 3.8 = 394.44
Arcanite Reaper 1.8: (53.8 * 3.8 ) + (50 * 3.3) = 369.44

Destiny 1.7: (53.8 + 50) * 2.6 = 269.88
Destiny 1.8: (53.8 * 2.6) + (50 * 3.3) = 304.88

Slow weapons of identical DPS still have the edge, as an instant is an EXTRA attack every X seconds. However, where DPS increases, the debilitating effect of fast speed on instant attacks is reduced.

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Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 12:51:03 PM

Interesting. Reading the post closely, I would've assumed the current behavior is (DPS + (APBonus * Speed)) instead of the way you listed it, although the way you've listed it for 1.7 looks a lot more broken and hence more likely.

Anyway, your analysis holds for attacks that you can reliably performs every X seconds; however, overpower first requires your target to dodge, which requires a precursor event first; that event tends to happen far less often than the cooldown (5 sec) from my experience. That's why my current PvP weapon is Demonshear, 53.8 DPS with 2.3 attack speed.

Now, straight up, my overpower will do less base dps: (53.8 * 2.3) + (50 * 3.3) = 288.74 vs your calculation of 369.44. Demonshear assuredly gets two attacks off after an Overpower (worst case at timestamps 2.2 and 4.5), whereas a Reaper has a 31.5% chance of making two attacks. The possibility of Demonshear making three attacks (0.1, 2.4, 4.7)is fairly small (17.4%), but significant when accounting for the reaper's 31.5% chance.

Let's presume this is a stock rogue not using evasion and wearing heavy +agi gear. 25% dodge chance is a reasonable, if high, assumption. The rogue has a (0.174 * 0.75) + (0.826 * 0.5) = 54.35% chance to dodge prior to overpower's cooldown expiring on Demonshear. For the reaper, this is merely a (0.315 * 0.5) + (0.685 * 0.25) = 32.875% chance to dodge prior to the reaper's cooldown expiring. If the rogue is hit each time, Demonshear will move the probability of Overpower popping towards 1 more rapidly than the Reaper. Further, we can ignore the damage of the standard hits since the total damage over time by two weapons of equivalent DPS is supposedly equal.

Ignoring the bonus that Overpower gives, this bears out that Demonshear will cause about 156.93 DPS base whereas the Reaper will give 121.4534 DPS base over an infinitely long battle with the warrior using only Overpower. (These numbers are just the DPS modified by the probability of Overpower popping instantly after the cooldown; my probability theory isn't good enough to factor in the modifiers produced by Overpower popping at some point after the cooldown expires.) Note that since you're overpowering more frequently, the added bonus damage on each Overpower will also give faster weapons a greater advantage.

Using a non-rogue's dodge chance (5%-10%) gives Demonshear an even greater advantage. Feel free to correct my math, though.

Also, I fail to see how the base damage increasing from ~270 to ~305 for Destiny 1.7->1.8 is anything less than a little buff; sure, the Reaper's numbers are still bigger at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean that the faster weapon isn't a mite more powerful.
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Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 12:53:20 PM

Stolen from the warrior board:

Code:
                              
Avg Dmg  Delay   +Str  +AttPwr AttPwr  Old Bonus New Bonus  % Dmg Red

Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros      297.5    3.7     12      0     1024     270.6     241.4     -5.15%

High Warlord's Greatsword       294      3.8     26      0     1052     285.5     248.0     -6.48%

Bonereaver's Edge               258      3.4      0      0     1000     242.9     235.7     -1.43%

Spinal Reaper                   254      3.4      0     34     1034     251.1     243.7     -1.46%

Drake Talon Cleaver             249.5    3.4     22      0     1044     253.5     246.1     -1.48%

Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds   245.5    3.8      0     72     1072     291.0     252.7     -7.14%

Sulfuron Hammer                 235.5    3.7      0      0     1000     264.3     235.7     -5.72%

The Unstoppable Force           233.5    3.8     19      0     1038     281.7     244.7     -7.19%

The Untamed Blade               240.5    3.4      0      0     1000     242.9     235.7     -1.48%

Draconic Maul                   234.5    3.5     27      0     1054     263.5     248.4     -3.02%

Gri'lek's Carver                228      3.9      0      0     1000     278.6     235.7     -8.46%

Obsidian Edged Blade            220      3.4     42      0     1084     263.3     255.5     -1.60%

Halberd of Smiting              219      3.5      0      0     1000     250.0     235.7     -3.05%

Draconic Avenger                218      3.2     21      0     1042     238.2     245.6      1.63%

Nightfall                       214.5    3.2      0      0     1000     228.6     235.7      1.61%

Arcanite Reaper                 204.5    3.8      0     62     1062     288.3     250.3     -7.70%

Ice Barbed Spear                194      3.6     13      0     1026     263.8     241.8     -4.80%

Barbarous Blade                 172.5    3.2      0     60     1060     242.3     249.9      1.83%


The change was needed.  The calculations they use for melee specials were retarded (and still could use work after this).  Warriors already do more damage than they should for a class that has the highest hitpoints, wears plate, and can attain high resistances easily with little sacrifices. 

Looking at the chart, you see it's not really that big a nerf.  Lets say you MS twice at most against someone in a pvp match (that's being generous)... that's 76 less damage with an AR.  Slower weapons are still better than faster weapons overall, but it closes the gap somewhat at least.  While it sucks when items that cost a ton of gold and materials to make - like the AR - get nerfed, it's not so bad.

I'm too lazy to do my own match, but I would think Fury warriors would get a boost from these changes as well.  I'm sure it's still behind 2h warrior damage output, but it's a boost for them.

Rogues do have a little room to complain since they're pretty closed to being balanced, even though I think the change is good for the game.
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Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 01:34:20 PM

Oh for furry warriors there is also another change coming. The max 3% plus hit thing will no longer effect dual wieling so people can use +to hit to mitigate the innate -25% to hit for dual wielding. Alot of rogues are already drooling thinking of putting together +14 or 16 to hit sets of gear together which will be a pretty strong shot in the arm for fury warriors and rogues.

kaid
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Reply #11 on: September 22, 2005, 05:17:53 PM

I'm always mildy in awe people take the time to graph this sort of thing.  I'm such a dilletante.

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Reply #12 on: September 22, 2005, 06:04:20 PM

I never really liked how WoW calculated damage...Lower DPS weapons being better? What?

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Reply #13 on: September 23, 2005, 02:51:42 AM

The greater attack power bonus for slow weapons on instant attacks always seemed totally retarded to me. A slow hard hitting weapon already gets a huge bonus from being able to attack instantly, why the hell would you give it even more advantage?
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Reply #14 on: September 23, 2005, 02:56:08 AM

They have 'overlooked' hunters at this point. Currently a shitty blue 3.3s crossbow is much better than a shiny purple molten core 2.5s bow for both burst and sustained damage. The only time you would use the epic is when you cannot use auto-shot, such as tight instances where junk is crowd controlled near the primary target.

I don't agree here. I consistantly outdamage a guy with the pvp crossbow(3.3) with my blastershot launcher(2.6) on our mc runs. He usually ends the night a couple of 100k below me on the damage meter.

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Reply #15 on: September 23, 2005, 05:47:18 AM

Please explain instant damage attack in this context.  How is a slow weapon an instant damage attack?

Plus, should slower weapons get some bonus to damage since they don't get the added bonus of multiple chances for procs/crits/disrupts per minute?
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Reply #16 on: September 23, 2005, 06:29:11 AM

Please explain instant damage attack in this context.  How is a slow weapon an instant damage attack?

Plus, should slower weapons get some bonus to damage since they don't get the added bonus of multiple chances for procs/crits/disrupts per minute?

Serveral classes get attacks which go off immediately you push the button, they don't wait for the next weapon swing to take effect. This messes up the damage of weapons as naturally a slow weapon with the same dps as a fast one will have a higher top end hit. To further screw things up, some genius at Blizzard decided they should also add a greater attack bonus to slower weapons as well, similar to how +dmg spell effect items have a greater effect on long casting spells than instant spells. So essentially, slow weapon damage is double dipping into the damage add pool. This made weapons with lower listed dps actually better than weapons with higher dps.

If they had made the added damage from an instant attack be based on a weapon's dps rather than it's attack speed this might be slightly better for faster weapons. Crits are supposedly determined like in EQ, weapons are essentially limited to the number of times they can proc per minute so a faster weapon doesn't really have a greater chance to proc than a slow one, and because casting can't be interrupted but only slowed down, fast weapons aren't particularly effective against spell casters either. Warrior's defence tree has a talent that supposedly adds more hate per weapon strike but most warriors don't seem to consider it effective enough to make faster weapons a valid choice. The only build I've heard that is supposedly effective with a warrior is a fury build with a very fast weapon spamming their skill that activates on the next swing (brain fart, can't remember it's name atm)

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Reply #17 on: September 23, 2005, 06:41:19 AM

Please explain instant damage attack in this context.  How is a slow weapon an instant damage attack?

Plus, should slower weapons get some bonus to damage since they don't get the added bonus of multiple chances for procs/crits/disrupts per minute?

"Instant" attacks are the attacks you have that are listed as "instant"  They don't rely on your 'next weapon swing' or the channeling bar to happen, they happen as soon as you hit the button and then cool-down on a separate timer.  Things like Overpower, Mortal Strike, & rogue's Sinister Strike are instant attacks.  Attacks like Heroic Strike rely on 'net weapon swing' and then attacks like Slam use the channeling timer.

2-h weapons *should* get a bonus to damage on things like Heroic Strike because of what you mentioned. 2-h weapons having a slower attack rate do more base damage in order to achiever the same DPS as 1-h weapons.  (see the above chart,  Dps = avg damage/spd in seconds) so in order to do the same DPS on 'delayed attack' specials they need to do more damage.

However, adding that same bonus to 'instants' really overpowers 2-h weapons.  The cooldown for these attacks are the same, regardless of weapons speed.  Instant attacks do damage based on "weapon damge +X amount".   Since a slow 2-h weapon will do more base damage than even an average 1h weapon, adding even more to this as 'bonus' damage to 'make up' for the slowness really screws things.

So a 3.5 spd weapon that does 50 dps will do 175 avg weapon damage.  A 1.2 spd weapon that does 50dps will do 75avg weapon damage.  Mortal Strike (the thing most whined about) does Weapon damage +160 at level 60, every 6 seconds (if you have the 30 rage required).  Using just these two base damages,(not adjusted for atk rating, etc I'm trying to keep this simple right now, Righ, Gallo)  this means a 2-h weapon does 335 damage and the 1h does 235 damage every 6 seconds.  That equates to 55.83dps for the 2h and 39.16 for the 1h before all the other stuff is added-in.

Does that shed some light on it for ya, Dren?

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Reply #18 on: September 23, 2005, 07:15:37 AM

The slow PVP crossbows and guns are good for higher burst dps which is what you want in pvp. The faster better dps weapons will win out easily in pve. In pvp its pretty much all about aiming for as big of crits as you can beg borrow and steal. Steady damage is easy to heal big bursts of 1.5 to 2k damage are a LOT harder to heal.

For pvp you want the biggest nastiest slowest weapon you can get for a ranged weapon as in general most of your carnage will be done with aimed shot and multishot neither of which is weapon speed dependent.


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Reply #19 on: September 23, 2005, 08:40:58 AM

Yeah, I get it.  I wasn't thinking about sinister strike and the like.  Thanks.
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Reply #20 on: September 23, 2005, 12:12:51 PM

Warrior's defence tree has a talent that supposedly adds more hate per weapon strike but most warriors don't seem to consider it effective enough to make faster weapons a valid choice.

The warrior talent you're thinking of is Defiance, it adds 3-15% more threat to all attacks made in defensive stance. Since hate is partially dependent on how much damage you do, the speed of the weapon doesn't directly contribute to how much hate you generate in any given battle.

However, I prefer a higher speed weapon so that my hate output is normalized; with a slow weapon, a couple of whiffs and some bad luck with parry/block/dodge can cause you to lose hate to a rogue or mage.

Also, fast weapons (especially dual-wielded) are somewhat effective against casters. While a 3.x+ attack speed will let casters get off most of their attack spells without interruption, a pair of 1.5 swords or daggers can do some serious damage, setting even fast spells back by 1-2 seconds in the average case.
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Reply #21 on: September 23, 2005, 12:27:01 PM

This is where my confusion comes in - hit rate seems more important than potential damage.  I've tended to avoid slower weapons in the past not because they do not damage more since clearly they do, but faster weps seem to provide more consistent predictable damage.  All it takes is a single parry/block to render the slow wep "advantage" moot.
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Reply #22 on: September 23, 2005, 12:35:59 PM

Man... someone needs to put a warning like [Spreadsheet Thread] on shit like this. Why can't we all just have the same damage weapon but have them look different? After all, if I stab your heart with a dagger or a sword, you're still going to bleed to death. ;)

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Reply #23 on: September 23, 2005, 12:45:11 PM

This is where my confusion comes in - hit rate seems more important than potential damage.  I've tended to avoid slower weapons in the past not because they do not damage more since clearly they do, but faster weps seem to provide more consistent predictable damage.  All it takes is a single parry/block to render the slow wep "advantage" moot.

That's my philosophy as well; I sacrifice the extreme highs in DPS you can get from slow, high power weapons to avoid the extreme lows. This is primarily because I Main Tank a lot, and having a Main Tank whose aggro output is highly variable sucks.

Thing is, slower weapons ( especially before 1.8 ) take great advantage of melee classes' instant attacks, thus boosting your aggregate, and especially burst, DPS higher than if you'd used a faster weapon, hence the change in 1.8. With some +hit% and +crit% gear, you can also ameliorate the effects of missing somewhat and boost your burst DPS even higher. Burst DPS is important in PVP for the shock value ("zomg 2k crit!") as well as minimizing the reaction time available to enemy healers. One-shots don't hurt either. You won't get these with faster weapons.

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Reply #24 on: September 23, 2005, 12:50:15 PM

Yeah, but PvP is all about the burst damage, while PvE is about sustained damage.  Thus the advantage of 'instant' attacks.  You're not relying on autoattack to do your PvP damage. The miss-rate with 2-hd weapons is also significantly lower than with dual-wielding weapons, so your instants will hit more often. (Again, the stupidity of having big-damage weapons and low-damage weapons on the same timer & attack bonus for specials)

That's why you'll see berzerking fury-warriors with equivilant weapons beating-out MS warriors in PvE, but getting owned in PvP.

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Reply #25 on: September 23, 2005, 09:53:43 PM

This is where my confusion comes in - hit rate seems more important than potential damage.  I've tended to avoid slower weapons in the past not because they do not damage more since clearly they do, but faster weps seem to provide more consistent predictable damage.  All it takes is a single parry/block to render the slow wep "advantage" moot.


Thats where instant attacks come in, you won't mortal strike or sinister strike slower with a slower weapon, they all do it at the same speed so the slowest will always hit harder.  You would be correct on what is called "white damage", which is auto attack damage not including any abilities, but for example on my rogue white damage only counts for about 20% of my total damage so its fairly inconsequential.  Instant abilities not only account for the majority of your damage, they are also where all the burst damage comes from.

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Reply #26 on: September 24, 2005, 03:13:33 AM

They have 'overlooked' hunters at this point. Currently a shitty blue 3.3s crossbow is much better than a shiny purple molten core 2.5s bow for both burst and sustained damage. The only time you would use the epic is when you cannot use auto-shot, such as tight instances where junk is crowd controlled near the primary target.

I don't agree here. I consistantly outdamage a guy with the pvp crossbow(3.3) with my blastershot launcher(2.6) on our mc runs. He usually ends the night a couple of 100k below me on the damage meter.

He's either underequipped elsewhere on his character, or he's a useless twat. If YOU equipped the crossbow, you'd do more damage. Unless you're BOTH useless twats that are resting and just doing auto-shot all night. I do substantially more damage with my Bloodseeker crossbow in MC than with my Striker's Mark.

Same princicple applies - damage is weapon base damage plus the product of weapon speed and your ranged attack power divided by 14.

Let's assume a 1050 ranged attack power for easy sums (1050/14 = 75) - base shots are:

Bloodseeker: 85 to 128 + (75 * 3.3) = 332.5 to 375.5 ave 354
Carapace Spine Crossbow: 82 to 124 + (75 * 3.3) = 329.5 to 371.5 ave 350.5
Rhok'delar, longbow of the ancient keepers: 89 to 166 + (75 * 2.9) = 306.5 to 383.5 ave 345
Blastershot launcher: 73 to 136 + (75 * 2.6) = 268 to 331 ave 299.5
Striker's mark: 69 to 129 + (75 * 2.5) = 256.5 to 316.5 ave 286.5

Now, add multi-shot (+120 to base) every ten seconds, and aimed shot (+600 to base) every six seconds.

BSX: 47.4 + 159 = 206.4
CSX: 47.05 + 158.42 = 205.47
Elfbow: 46.5 + 157.5 = 204
BSL: 41.95 + 149.92 = 191.87
SM: 40.65 + 147.75 = 188.4

That's the extra DPS gained off each weapon from spamming aimed and multi whenever possible on a single target, without critical shots. Since BSX is over 15 DPS up on BSL, it more than compensates for its 8 lower weapon DPS. Add in higher ranged attack power (likely) and critical hits of 230% and it becomes more pronounced. BSX & CSX cannot however beat Rhok'delar. However... this can:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=19361

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
Phred
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Posts: 2025


Reply #27 on: September 24, 2005, 07:04:30 AM

Maybe that's it. I'm constantly spamming arcane and multi every time they ungrey. I also have quite a bit more crit gear than him from what I can see from damagemeter I'm running 22-25% crits while he's down in the 17% range.

Sairon
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Reply #28 on: September 24, 2005, 10:41:57 AM

This kind of fucks it up at the other end now. I mean cool, these 1.5 speed fist weapons suddenly gets AR boosts as if they were 2.4. Fury warriors suddenly became heaps better.
Phred
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Reply #29 on: September 24, 2005, 08:19:24 PM

This kind of fucks it up at the other end now. I mean cool, these 1.5 speed fist weapons suddenly gets AR boosts as if they were 2.4. Fury warriors suddenly became heaps better.

Fury warriors dont rely on instants do they? Remember this change only effects instant attacks.

Sairon
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Posts: 866


Reply #30 on: September 25, 2005, 03:48:06 AM

This kind of fucks it up at the other end now. I mean cool, these 1.5 speed fist weapons suddenly gets AR boosts as if they were 2.4. Fury warriors suddenly became heaps better.

Fury warriors dont rely on instants do they? Remember this change only effects instant attacks.



Ah, thought it was for all attacks :P
Threash
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Posts: 9171


Reply #31 on: September 25, 2005, 09:26:19 AM

This kind of fucks it up at the other end now. I mean cool, these 1.5 speed fist weapons suddenly gets AR boosts as if they were 2.4. Fury warriors suddenly became heaps better.

Fury warriors dont rely on instants do they? Remember this change only effects instant attacks.



Ah, thought it was for all attacks :P

I believe the only skills being affected by this change are mortal strike, sinister strike, backstab, ambush.

I am the .00000001428%
Fabricated
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WWW
Reply #32 on: September 25, 2005, 11:53:34 AM

Naturally, all this, and I get this drop on my first real BRD run last night. :P

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #33 on: September 25, 2005, 01:59:11 PM

Grats. It's still going to kick ass for mortal strike.
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