Marvel changes name, gets ready to pump out shit.

[stray]

I for one, thought the Punisher was cool. Not as good as it could be, but pretty good for a $50 mill budget. Better than Daredevil (but I haven't seen the DD Director's Cut). That it took place Tampa sucks. That Travolta was in it made it suck even worse (but funny too..). The action kicked ass though. Going into it, I was expecting something really horrible, but didn't turn out that way. I was also dead set against Tom Jane as the Frank Castle.....But in the end, I turned into a big fan. I'd love to see a sequel.

I thought the Hulk was cool too.

[Strazos]

Hell, a microchosm of proof is right here, what with Strazos asking for a DC character movie in a Marvel discussion.

Heh, whoops....


I haven't looked at my Flash stuff in years.

I was never a huge comic guy to begin with, so I'm lucky if I can remeber if a series is DC, Marvel, or Something Else.

I haven't bought a comic since early high school.

[HaemishM]

Of that list of movies, I see maybe 3, MAYBE 4 with franchise/sequel potential. And then, only if handled by the most expert of hands.

Capt. America could either be decently done, or a complete piece of shit, depending on how he's portrayed. The character in the comics is already hurting for villains, what with anyone left from WWII being so ancient as to be not believable (or cloned or some shit). Now, I haven't read the latest stories, but let's face it, they probably won't try a translation of good material, so much as try to Elektra-fy something for the movies.

The Avengers could be good, if they don't try to include Spider-Man or the New Avengers shit which has been selling for them. Many of the best Avengers members might not be useable, considering either their extended continuity (Capt. America, Thor), or the rights to the character being owned by someone else (Hulk, Iron Man). That's why there's been no Justice League movie.

Dr. Strange? Maybe, but doubtful. Nick Fury or Black Panther? Doubtful they'll be good franchise properties. POWER PACK? How far back in the '80's do you have to go? The first few issues were good, but then it fell into the Marvel Universe. Shang-Chi? He can't even support his own series in the comics.

Marvel is poised to start a losing streak in the movies. X3... is in limbo as to whether or not it has a chance to be good. They already pissed away their chances with Daredevil and Punisher and even Hulk really, though I liked DD and the Hulk movies.

[stray]

Hmm...They didn't piss away their chances with DD and the Punisher really. They made a load of cash through DVD's. I'm not sure about DD, but I heard Tom Jane talking about after the theatrical release, there was little hope that he'd revist the character. After the DVD release though, everyone started talking again. They found that many people enjoyed the movie, outside of the fucktard Punisher fanboi crowd.

[HaemishM]

Daredevil did decent in the theater, despite its problems. I haven't heard how the DVD or the Director's Cut DVD sold.

Silver Surfer won't work, because you'd have to throw out all the Galactus/FF continuity. Galactus without the FF is just... that would mean the Surfer would have to stop him, and not only is that illogical, I don't think Hollywood or even Marvel Entertainment could write it in such a way as to not suck ass.

[Llava]

I for one, thought the Punisher was cool. Not as good as it could be, but pretty good for a $50 mill budget.

NO!

Bad, Stray!  Bad!

"Dad, we bought this T-shirt for you in town!  The natives say it protects against evil spirits!"
---
"Who's that?"
"Oh, that's INSERT GENERIC CRAZY OLD HERMIT NAME.  People say he's a witch doctor.  Spends all his time on that island."
---
"Hey man, we're family now!  And we protect our family!"

 

[Sky]

Silver Surfer won't work, because you'd have to throw out all the Galactus/FF continuity. Galactus without the FF is just... that would mean the Surfer would have to stop him, and not only is that illogical, I don't think Hollywood or even Marvel Entertainment could write it in such a way as to not suck ass.

Nah, man. You don't need to bring the FF into it. The Silver Surfer DID stop Galactus, at least from destroying his homeworld. The movie could focus on his planet as some utopian technological paradise, like I said, Galactus is a kickass disaster movie waiting to happen. Suspense and whatnot, impending doom, pacifist scientists debating what to do unto the very end, when the one rogue scientist goes against their will to treat with Galactus directly, saving his planet but losing his family and life (pretty much), destined to roam the galaxy. Focus on how he does what he can to direct Galactus to uninhabited worlds.

It's too bad the FF franchise has been stained by that friggin' movie, because then you could do an excellent tie-in as Galactus discovers Earth...but you never really have to bring that into the movie. It could be all about the character development of the Surfer. But ending the movie with his exile to earth (after saving it) would be cool...

And hey, it's a tie-in to the Mountain Dew X-Treme bullshit crowd, too. Have Tony Hawk make a silver skateboard or something.

[stray]

I for one, thought the Punisher was cool. Not as good as it could be, but pretty good for a $50 mill budget.

NO!

Yes.



And this...This was one of the best (and funniest) fight scenes EVER. Martial arts movies or otherwise. It's also about as accurate as you can get with the Russian from the Welcome Back, Frank comic:



[edit] Not to say that I didn't have problems with it, but geez....It's not even close to as bad as some people try to say it is. Trying to make this movie into some massive failure is trying too hard. And far as people's opinions outside the internet go, I've yet to meet one person, male or female, young or old, who isn't as boggled as I am when I mention the bad criticism it got.

[edit] Another thing: Sure, a fairly accurate representation of "the comic" would have been better, no doubt....But my thing is: I'm also able to take it on it's own terms too. And on that level, I didn't think that it sucked. That's the problem with a lot of comic book readers. They can't do that.

Oh well.

That being said, if a movie is still really shitty on general filmmaking terms (and not just because of some unfaithfulness to the source material), then you'll see my hate. Some of the things in the Punisher were shitty on a general level, I'll admit (the whole fire hydrant scheme was a bit convoluted, for example), but for most part...What the hell? I was entertained.

There's also a valid excuse that it took place in Tampa (the location disappointed the director too): They only had a $50-60 million budget (it's remarkable enough that they made an action movie on that, Tampa or not), and it costs a lot of cash to film in NYC or Chicago. To get a marketable movie, (industry) wisdom says that you also need at least one big name (and Travolta was it...bleh).

After Travolta, a lot of the cast were either from local talent or barely recognizable. Will Patton, Tom Jane, Rebecca Romijn, and Laura Harring round the cast of slightly well knowns, but they aren't too expensive (relatively) --- Top them off with Travolta, the cost of stunts/stuntmen and cheap old school effects, Tampa's cheap pricing, and local talent --- And that's all of the budget right there.

[Llava]

Oh I don't even give a shit about the comic.  I have maybe one issue sitting around somewhere.  Never liked the Punisher.

But this movie... god.  Okay, it wasn't Uwe Boll-ish.  It probably wasn't as bad as Catwoman (which I haven't seen).  But it was at least as bad as Daredevil (non-director's cut), and I'd say worse.  Come ON.  A T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits???  THAT'S HOW HE GOT THAT SHIRT?!  WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?

[stray]

Oh I don't even give a shit about the comic.  I have maybe one issue sitting around somewhere.  Never liked the Punisher.

But this movie... god.  Okay, it wasn't Uwe Boll-ish.  It probably wasn't as bad as Catwoman (which I haven't seen).  But it was at least as bad as Daredevil (non-director's cut), and I'd say worse.  Come ON.  A T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits???  THAT'S HOW HE GOT THAT SHIRT?!  WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?

Umm...It wasn't a T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits. It was just a T-Shirt that his kid bought, from a guy who "said" it protected from evil spirits (when he was really just fucking with the kid, and trying to sell a simple t-shirt).

Frank just used it because it had a fucking skull on it, and that the fact that it was a gift from his son.

[HaemishM]

I will say that the Punisher movie wasn't as bad as the Dolph Lundgren version. Or Catwoman.

But it wasn't as good as Daredevil (the Director's Cut) or even the theatrical release. It irked me in all kinds of ways, from Travolta's shitty shit shit shit performance, to the irrasciable neighbors who he befriends, to the island natives who give him the hoodoo T-Shirt or some stupid shit, to the weird idea of making Will Patton's character gay (which just felt forced to me). I wouldn't have cared about the location if the rest of the movie wasn't just patently ridiculous.

[Velorath]

Most of the others I haven't even heard of.. and I'll wager most of the public hasn't either. No, I'm afraid you've used up your good licenses, Marvel. Sorry guys.

Most of the public never heard of Blade before the movies came out either.

After the last 2 movies, most of the public wants to remember the time they never heard of Blade.

Though you have a point, I think Blade was successful more because it was a Vampire movie with asskicking than because it was a comic movie.  Spidey and X-men were because they were recognizable characters, of which Marvel has few.  Stray has the right of it in that DC has more publicly recognizable characters because they were Baby Boomer icons even if half their movies are shit, too.   Hell, a microchosm of proof is right here, what with Strazos asking for a DC character movie in a Marvel discussion.

I think most people didnt know it was a comic, and still dont after watching all three. What was the name of the comic he was in? Nightstalkers or some thing like it.

He first appeared in Tomb of Dracula.  Nightstalkers came out in the 90's when they were bringing all the old Marvel horror characters back.  Then that ended after 18 issues and they launched a Blade solo series which lasted 10 or so issues.  Then some time after that the first movie came out.  So Marvel actually made a successful movie based on a character from the 70's was in two comic book series that flopped.

[Big Gulp]

Sky and I usually tend to agree, but not on this one.

Silver Surfer is possibly the gayest concept for a superhero ever.  The whole thing is only redeemed by the Tick satire where he's forced to drive around Galactus' body in a golfcart removing planetary debris.

Sorry, man.  I've just never understood the Surfer love.

[stray]

Sky and I usually tend to agree, but not on this one.

Silver Surfer is possibly the gayest concept for a superhero ever.  The whole thing is only redeemed by the Tick satire where he's forced to drive around Galactus' body in a golfcart removing planetary debris.

Sorry, man.  I've just never understood the Surfer love.

Early Surfer is where it begins and ends with me. Stan Lee's narrative and dialog writing style is both corny as hell, and beautifully poetic. The Surfer was a good launching pad for all his more grand mythological ideals about comic book characters.

Later on, it gets pretty convoluted (and just plain boring), but Lee's origin story (and some of his followup stuff) is great. That, and the fact that the Surfer is at once the most powerful individual known to Marvel universe (outside Galactus) -- and the most derided. He's treated even worse than villians.....And he puts up with all the shit. He doesn't outright destroy the human race, but instead, helps them (mainly for chicks...But there's a Jesus thing goin' on here too).

[Llava]

Oh I don't even give a shit about the comic.  I have maybe one issue sitting around somewhere.  Never liked the Punisher.

But this movie... god.  Okay, it wasn't Uwe Boll-ish.  It probably wasn't as bad as Catwoman (which I haven't seen).  But it was at least as bad as Daredevil (non-director's cut), and I'd say worse.  Come ON.  A T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits???  THAT'S HOW HE GOT THAT SHIRT?!  WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?

Umm...It wasn't a T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits. It was just a T-Shirt that his kid bought, from a guy who "said" it protected from evil spirits (when he was really just fucking with the kid, and trying to sell a simple t-shirt).

Which would be fine if they had acknowledged that in any way.  But instead of Frank giving his wife a smirk and her smiling and rolling her eyes at their son's naivety, he pauses to reflect on just what this strange t-shirt means in the cosmic sense, and what sort of omen it symbolizes for his life.

And maybe I'm nit-picking here, or maybe I was just a smart kid, but when I was that kid's age someone would have a pretty goddamn hard time convincing me a t-shirt protected against anything but sunburn.

[Shockeye]

Exclusive: Who Might Direct Ant-Man?
First word on the new Marvel movie.

...

According to The Hollywood Reporter, "Marvel chairman and CEO Avi Arad said he officially will begin attaching scriptwriters to all 10 projects beginning Wednesday and that, though he has a wish list, he's unsure which movie will be released first."

IGN FilmForce has learned that British filmmaker Edgar Wright is poised to direct Ant-Man. Wright apparently plans on making Ant-Man a comedy.

Neither Wright's reps nor Marvel responded to our inquiries for comment.

Wright wrote and directed the zombie laffer Shaun of the Dead. He also has been linked with the upcoming projects Hot Fuzz and Scott Pilgrim's Precious Little Life.

...

[stray]

Oh I don't even give a shit about the comic.  I have maybe one issue sitting around somewhere.  Never liked the Punisher.

But this movie... god.  Okay, it wasn't Uwe Boll-ish.  It probably wasn't as bad as Catwoman (which I haven't seen).  But it was at least as bad as Daredevil (non-director's cut), and I'd say worse.  Come ON.  A T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits???  THAT'S HOW HE GOT THAT SHIRT?!  WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?

Umm...It wasn't a T-Shirt that protects against evil spirits. It was just a T-Shirt that his kid bought, from a guy who "said" it protected from evil spirits (when he was really just fucking with the kid, and trying to sell a simple t-shirt).

Which would be fine if they had acknowledged that in any way.  But instead of Frank giving his wife a smirk and her smiling and rolling her eyes at their son's naivety, he pauses to reflect on just what this strange t-shirt means in the cosmic sense, and what sort of omen it symbolizes for his life.

And maybe I'm nit-picking here, or maybe I was just a smart kid, but when I was that kid's age someone would have a pretty goddamn hard time convincing me a t-shirt protected against anything but sunburn.

Dude, c'mon. Lol.

Yes, you are nitpicking. He's just a kid going "Isn't it neat, Dad?! Huh?!" That is all.

Frank doesn't ponder anything. I just watched that scene over and he just kind of smiles and opens up the package after his son says that. It's just a t-shirt that his kid bought him, and it ended up taking on greater meaning after everyone was dead.

Besides, as far as mystical storylines involving Frank and the Punisher go, there is some validity to it (but it wasn't inferred in this particular film). Read the Punisher: Born graphic novel.

[Llava]

Fine, I'll conceed that point (still think it was fucking stupid, but I don't much care to keep going back and forth about it), but it's not as though the film is otherwise a sparkling piece of entertainment only marred by that moment.  There was a lot of other shit wrong- I just remember that the most.  Aside from that, the black hermit with strange yet effective healing methods is pretty goddamn tired.

But whatever, you're more of a Peter Travers kind of guy and I'm more of a Roger Ebert kind of guy.  To each his own.


As for the above article- Thank god they're thinking of making Ant-Man a comedy.  That's the only way that film could be good.

Now, make it a GOOD comedy.

[Velorath]

Besides, as far as mystical storylines involving Frank and the Punisher go, there is some validity to it (but it wasn't inferred in this particular film). Read the Punisher: Born graphic novel.

And then there was that time he killed himself and got brought back to life with Angelic powers...

[stray]

But whatever, you're more of a Peter Travers kind of guy and I'm more of a Roger Ebert kind of guy.  To each his own.

Hmm...Whatever that means.

Hell, I disagree with Travers more than I do Ebert on their reviews in this case. Neither one of them particularly hated it though. They're both fair guys (Which is to say, they don't get hyperbolic and carried away with their love or hate...Unlike the majority of critics. Especially internet critics. Both are capable of giving 2, 3, or 4 stars to something, and not just 1 star or 4 stars.).

As for Ebert, I've always identified with him a bit, simply because his first punch or praise goes to acting and actors before anything else. He'll judge a movie firstoff by it's flesh and blood, and not esoteric plot references or angle choices. Secondly, because his film tastes span everything from Marlon Brando to Jean-Pierre Melville to Douglas Quaid*. Dramaqueen, Artfag, and a love for blowing up shit all rolled into one. My kind of guy.

I'm not sure why you're trying to pin me for anything anyways..I simply gave an action movie 2 stars. And that's mainly because of Tom Jane.

* Douglas Quaid, not Dennis Quaid.

[Llava]

I just said that because Ebert gave The Punisher a poor review and Travers gave it a favorable one, while Travers gave Van Helsing a poor review and Ebert gave it a favorable one (if I recall, you didn't like Van Helsing at all).  Not trying to pin you for anything- I just think it was a very shitty movie and your comment about not understanding why one would say that led me to try to explain.

[stray]

I just said that because Ebert gave The Punisher a poor review and Travers gave it a favorable one, while Travers gave Van Helsing a poor review and Ebert gave it a favorable one (if I recall, you didn't like Van Helsing at all).

I never said much about Van Helsing because I haven't seen it.

I'm not sure where Ebert gave it a poor review.

After discussing the seriousness and negativeness of the violence, he goes on to say:

That said, I have to note that the film, directed by Jonathan Hensleigh, is consistently well-acted, and has some scenes of real power. That the Punisher is a dreary and charmless character does not mean that Thomas Jane doesn't play him well: He goes all the way with the film's dark vision, and is effective in the action scenes. Travolta, as Mr. Saint, finds a truth you would not think was available in melodrama of this sort; his grief over his son and possessive jealousy over his wife are compelling.

.....

Right down the line, the performances are strong: Even the three misfits in the run-down rooming house are given the dimension and screen time to become interesting. The screenplay, by Michael France and Jonathan Hensleigh, based on the Marvel comic, doesn't simply foreground the Punisher and make everyone else into one-dimensional cartoons. There's so much that's well-done here that you sense a good movie slipping away. That movie would either be lighter than this one, or commit to its seriousness, like "Scarface." This one loses control of its mood and doesn't know what level of credibility it exists on. At the end, we feel battered down and depressed, emotions we probably don't seek from comic book heroes.

Travers, on the other hand, couldn't really see anything redeemable about the movie other than the action. He didn't have good things to say about the tenant scenes etc.. So, you could say both had favorable reviews or negative, depending on how you look at it. Travers liked parts that Ebert didn't, and Ebert like parts that Travers didn't. Neither one of them had "teh hate" though. And out of the two, I agree with Ebert more.


Anyways...Gotta run..Cuttin' it short for now..