Winning on long odds

[schild]

The only difference between Nirvana and Limp Bizkit is how MUCH money they would be happy with. Well, there's also the matter of talent, but really, talent means all of jack shit in the music BUSINESS.

Which is why I haven't supported the RIAA for the last 5 years. Like seriously, if I can't get a CD through an indie label, a band web page, or a used CD store with trade-in's, it just won't get listened to.

One day talent will mean something again. Hollywood just needs a couple more Gigli's and honey's and the music industry just needs a couple more William Hung albums to outsell whatever the next 'big' thing happens to be.

[cevik]

Eh, Nirvana stole their style straight from the Pixies, if we're going to celebrate revolutionaries, we should at least go to the source..

[Dark Vengeance]

Lots of stuff.

You had me going along with everything you were saying til you mentioned fucking Dokken. Jesus man, that's like raining on your own parade.

Even when I did so to deride the sad state of the metal scene of the late 80's?

I realize it's the musical equivalent of having a woman mention your grandmother during sex, but cmon....things were NOT all sunshine and rainbows back in the day.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

[Dark Vengeance]

Eh, Nirvana stole their style straight from the Pixies, if we're going to celebrate revolutionaries, we should at least go to the source..

The sound and style was hardly revolutionary. Even Cobain himself frequently pointed out that they were little more than the 90's version of Cheap Trick. He was the first to tell people that Nirvana wasn't really doing anything new.

They didn't create the style, but they brought it to the forefront, and made it popular....and they did so with a measure of artistic integrity intact (listen to Radio Friendly Unit Shifter from In Utero and tell me that was what the label wanted as a follow up to Nevermind). While I have no issue with celebrating the Pixies on their own merits, I disagree that we should credit them with the success of Nirvana.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

[DarkDryad]

Goddmaned kids and thier music. The 70's and early 80's kicked this shit in the ass... but hard.

[HaemishM]

THERE'S NAUGHT WRONG WITH DOKKEN, LAD!

Well, ok sure there is, including the lead singer sucking copious amounts of cock, but the guitarist had his moments. If you like that sort of thing, which I do.

[Shockeye]

Eh, Nirvana stole their style straight from the Pixies, if we're going to celebrate revolutionaries, we should at least go to the source..

And Pixies were heavily influenced by Husker Du, who were influenced by Johnny Thunders, etc etc etc

[Sky]

You guys will probably cry when I say that the "Seattle Rock Scene" was pwnd by what some call the most successful female fronted band in the annals of hard rock.

How ignorant do you think we are? We're discussing the late 80s/early 90s, not the 70s. Don't you remember the incredible jugband that dominated the Seattle scene after the gold rush in the 1800's? :P

Which is why I haven't supported the RIAA for the last 5 years.

From a business perspective, this is stupid. By boycotting the RIAA and not supporting the /good/ artists, you remove another weight from 'our' side of the balance, because the mindless pop shoppers are still rabidly buying pop tripe. So to an accountant, that's less sales of that good artist compared to the pop crap. If everyone who enjoys good music boycotts the RIAA, then all they will sign is pop tripe.

At least if you support the artists you like they have a chance to move on when their contract runs out and you show the industry that good music is worth paying for.

I remember what it was like to be and actionable on issues. I marched with NORML, which was my cause of note in the 80s. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't think through your actions to the logical conclusion. Not buying music you like through major labels just tells major labels that that kind of music isn't viable, but the schlop like American Idol is, because it's still selling like hotcakes. And they can pump that fabricated shit out forever. Talent will only get rewarded in the industry if it sells. If you aren't buying, then why would they sign talented artists?

Dokken. I've seen them live a couple times, they put on a hell of a show, great band. Check out 'Mr Scary'. The drums and bass were a bit plain (part of the 'revolution' was ditching that crappy style of 4/4 basic drums + plodding single note bass as a major style, thank god), but as Hammy mentions, George Lynch is a tiger on guitar. Too bad he was in a band during that era, with that singer, who wasn't a bad singer, just had a real shitty and annoying style.

Hey, I never knew Adam Jones played through a bass amp! I'm using my bass amp and 1x15/8x10 combo for my guitar right now, heh. Guess I'll just skip buying a marshall stack and say it's how it's done these days!

[Dark Vengeance]

Hey, I never knew Adam Jones played through a bass amp! I'm using my bass amp and 1x15/8x10 combo for my guitar right now, heh. Guess I'll just skip buying a marshall stack and say it's how it's done these days!

Jones did a lot of bizarre things to get his specific sound. In particular he managed to find a setup where the level of distortion increases based on how hard he hits the strings with his right hand. Thus, in songs like "Forty-six & 2" from Aenima, he can gradually make the main guitar theme more and more distorted as the song progresses. Not easily duplicated, and really cool.

Of course, he's also been known to use a vibrator to get sustain and feedback, so I don't know if I'd emulate everything based solely on the fact that he does it.

He gets my vote as best guitarist of the 90s.....not the best technical player by any stretch, but Jones is the master of extracting just the right sound to provide what the song needs. never heard him do a solo that doesn't actually move the song forward and take it to a different place....which IMO puts him head and shoulders above virtuousos like Malmsteen who can dazzle you with pentatonic and mixolydian scales in their solos, but can't always make it relevant.

Bring the noise.
Cheers...............

[HaemishM]

Malmsteen could play the shit out of some academic stuff, but he couldn't write a moving song to save his ass. All he ever did was spew out scales that they teach in school sped up to 78 with lots of metal distortion. Total crap.

People like Tool's guitarist, or even Trent Reznor may not be as good technically as guys like Malmsteen. But they know how to write effecting music, even with sounds that should normally not be considered musical in nature. Same goes for the guys from Ministry and Front 242 (Skinny Puppy).

As for Nirvana were ripping off the Pixies were ripping off Husker Du, they were all continuing variations on "The Song," that great universal body of music that keeps building over the course of human history.

[stray]

Malmsteen could play the shit out of some academic stuff, but he couldn't write a moving song to save his ass.

Or any cock-rockin' guitar virtuoso for that matter (except Eddie perhaps). Vai, Satriani, Johnson can't write songs for shit either. I'll take Ry Cooder or Tom Verlaine over them any day.

I'm not a Tool fan, but I do dig the guitarist. As for bass-amp setups though, Josh Homme did a lot to popularize that sound with Kyuss (that and tuning to C). Nowadays it seems all metal guitarists (even Kerry King) sound like that (by way of the 7-string and Mesa's).

As for me, I'm all for the pursuit of ear-shattering ultra-treble guitar, coupled with Bass so low it's makes people feel like they're gonna shit in their pants. Indoor-shows only, of course.

[Righ]

As for me, I'm all for the pursuit of ear-shattering ultra-treble guitar, coupled with Bass so low it's makes people feel like they're gonna shit in their pants. Indoor-shows only, of course.

Only way to feel the noise is when it's good and loud,
So good you can't believe it's screaming with the crowd,
Don't sweat it, get it back to you,
Overkill, Overkill