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Topic: The Story of Mourning... or... Huh? (Read 24195 times)
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Koufou
Guest
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Hi,
Sorry to give you all the undigested stuff... Well I started to read the Mourning forums by mistake. What I cannot understand is how come I got so addicted to reading them? I don't play MMORPGs (I am afraid to loose too much time). So maybe this is more or less usual :)
Viklas:
1) I didn't say "don't blame the devs". I think they never had any word (besides designing & implementing :)). And I think they will go forward with whatever the owner of their code wants since they want their game out. (I don't even think they had a business plan)
2) From what I read, the market for PvP is small and risky. So the big companies go for the safe stuff. So while they want to try out new stuff, many pople still judge in the framework set up by the big publishers regarding many aspects. (I'm not talking about the billing debacle here - it just shows even more that one has to be "non-reasonable" at least, to put money in Mourning as an investor)
Cheers.
PS: o-zone - gay music is always a hit in Europe, isn't it ? :)
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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Sorry to give you all the undigested stuff... Well I started to read the Mourning forums by mistake. What I cannot understand is how come I got so addicted to reading them? I don't play MMORPGs (I am afraid to loose too much time). So maybe this is more or less usual :)
Maybe you just like watching a train wreck. God knows I do. 1) I didn't say "don't blame the devs". I think they never had any word (besides designing & implementing :)). And I think they will go forward with whatever the owner of their code wants since they want their game out. (I don't even think they had a business plan)
In other words, the devs created this mess, are perpetuating this mess, and will support this mess down to the last scam. Somebody else may have actually charged the cards, but without the devs playing along, for whatever reason, this mess would end right quickly. 2) From what I read, the market for PvP is small and risky. So the big companies go for the safe stuff. So while they want to try out new stuff, many pople still judge in the framework set up by the big publishers regarding many aspects. (I'm not talking about the billing debacle here - it just shows even more that one has to be "non-reasonable" at least, to put money in Mourning as an investor)
Yeah, because look at games like the NFL and Soccer and Baseball and Poker, nobody rich invests in PvP, because the market is unproven. Nobody much ever played Diablo 2, or Counterstrike. Big companies would never take a chance on a PvP game, like Planetside, or Guild Wars, and Puzzle Pirates and Eve can't attract any following. The history of PvP is just an endless litany of failure. Oh, wait, its not an endless litany of failure, is it? Maybe the problem isn't PvP. Maybe the problem is being professional. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our games, but in ourselves. |
"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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Koufou
Guest
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You're on a mighty position. You're right but, Maybe you just like watching a train wreck. God knows I do.
No, actually I don't, it's boring. I leave it for the guys who "knew better". I like the rollercoaster feeling - up - down - up - down - will it break, maybe not ? Like in the movies but for real. In other words, the devs created this mess, are perpetuating this mess, and will support this mess down to the last scam. Somebody else may have actually charged the cards, but without the devs playing along, for whatever reason, this mess would end right quickly.
Self-righteous. And jumping to conclusions. Would you burn your 3-year-old project if your 'boss' did something unethical? Yeah, because look at games like the NFL and Soccer and Baseball and Poker, nobody rich invests in PvP, because the market is unproven. Nobody much ever played Diablo 2, or Counterstrike. Big companies would never take a chance on a PvP game, like Planetside, or Guild Wars, and Puzzle Pirates and Eve can't attract any following. The history of PvP is just an endless litany of failure. Oh, wait, its not an endless litany of failure, is it?
I was talking about MMO, not FPS. Maybe the problem isn't PvP. Maybe the problem is being professional.
Give me a definition of professional. Some could argue that by talking freely (more or less) in the forum they have hurt the interests of the company. |
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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It will break. In fact, it already has.
Fraud is illegal, not just unethical. And if I didn't quit, I'd be guilty too. And thus, they are. By the way, this issue isn't what I might do, it is what they have done. Reality matters, hypotheticals don't.
I was talking about PvP+ games, and some of those PvP+ games were MMOs. Some of those MMOs were made by independant devlopers. And some of those MMOs have succeeded. Thus, independant PvP+ MMOs can succeed, because they have. Failure isn't somebody else's fault.
Being a professional has many aspects, but it starts with things like keeping your word and obeying the law.
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"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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Spoonbender
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7
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Well, WW2 and SB were made by professionals. I've started to look at Mourning as a indie MMOG. It's made by people who want to create a good game, but, to be blunt, don't have the resources, discipline and experience of the pro's.
And that shows, I guess... :P
No, they really weren't. The Shadowbane team started up pretty similarly to the Mourning team from what I understand. They just happen to have come up during the Internet's Heyday of "We'll invest in anything with the word internet in it." Cornered Rat being professionals? Not knowing of their history before WWIIO, I'd be willing to say they MIGHT have been professionals. They just never acted or produced like it. Whether or not it's deserved, these other games all ended up getting the resources they needed. Mourning didn't. And compared to the Mourning devs, the SB team acted *very* professional.(I have no personal experience with the WW2 devs though) At least the SB team acted like, well, game developers. When they invited beta testers, they made sure there was a place to report bugs. When they implemented something, they didn't a month later decide to scrap it and start over. Project management, in a nutshell. They had a plan they tried to follow. Whatever the problems with the game, at least there was a sense that "Given a decade or two, this could turn into a good game". With Mourning, I'm not convinced any amount of time would solve their problems. Half the time they seem to be running around in random circles, getting no closer to a finished product. And to whoever took offense because I called it an indie MMOG, please reread my post. I didn't say anything bad about indie games as a whole. I just said that like many indie games, the Mourning devs don't have the resources, experience and discipline of the pro's. And in this particular case, and it shows. I was defending the people who were robbed to the fanboi base in that thread. Spoon didnt post in it at all other than to brag that he reported me and thus got me banned... so, I dont see any badge of honor in that deal. I see a once "important fanboi" who fell from grace As I remember, I actually reported the entire thread, not just your post. And I didn't ask for anyone to be banned. The thread contained just about no valid complaining or "defending" anyone, or whatever you choose to call it, but it did have plenty of flaming. So I figured I'd ask a mod to take a look. I'm sorry if that offended you. And "once important"? Maybe. "Fanboy"? I doubt it. :P If it matters to you, my sympathies are with those who ended up paying $30 (or more) for a game they didn't want. But that doesn't excuse the amount of personal attack people were involved in. But all that's pretty irrelevant to this forum and this thread... |
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Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942
Muse.
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Evidently, an email went out today to all those who subscribed to Mourning: Greetings, Due to restructuring and new investment deals; all current subscriptions to Mourning are scheduled to be terminated and the project will be placed back into closed development status. All current active subscribers have been issued refunds. Refund types are dependant upon date of signup. Refunds are provided at the sole discretion of Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC. For more news regarding Mourning's development please visit the official site regularly! Best Regards! Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC http://www.realmsofkrel.comThis is second-hand as I don't subscribe to this... umm... game? Anyway, if you go to the website stated, it's not there. It seems to have been updating for a couple of days now. Rumour has it that some Korean firm bought the publishing rights. Some people just have more dollars than sense. |
My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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The way these guys have operated, they probably created a dummy company in Korea, bought themselves out in a pure stock transaction, and will try to scam a new set of suckers create a new playerbase in Korea. Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Scene 14 |
"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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Wow, that must be some kind of record for clusterfucktardery.
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Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995
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Evidently, an email went out today to all those who subscribed to Mourning: Greetings, Due to restructuring and new investment deals; all current subscriptions to Mourning are scheduled to be terminated and the project will be placed back into closed development status. All current active subscribers have been issued refunds. Refund types are dependant upon date of signup. Refunds are provided at the sole discretion of Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC. For more news regarding Mourning's development please visit the official site regularly! Best Regards! Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC http://www.realmsofkrel.comThis is second-hand as I don't subscribe to this... umm... game? Anyway, if you go to the website stated, it's not there. It seems to have been updating for a couple of days now. Rumour has it that some Korean firm bought the publishing rights. Some people just have more dollars than sense. Realms of Torment, indeed! I see someone must have pointed out the irony of the word Torment in their domain name. Krel doesn't sound much better, but certainly leaves less room for witty barbs. Prediction: Rubies of Eventide: Part Deux, if they make it back out of closed development. Or maybe they'll sell it off to some studio that'll make it a B grade single-player RPG. |
"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~ Amanda Palmer"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~ Lantyssa"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust |
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Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942
Muse.
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"Mourning" is just as reassuring.
Not.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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AOFanboi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 935
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Prediction: Rubies of Eventide: Part Deux That one's still alive somewhat, though. |
Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
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Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737
the opportunity for evil is just delicious
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truly, this would make a good business case for aspiring managers or anyone who should know better when playing with other people's money and interfering with their personal lives (i.e. bad project management creating OT). I've never seen a company implode so publically, or at least dissolve in near real-time through chat forums. Sort of like watching a car crash in slow motion. I often had fantasies of recording my experiences from all the changes and fuck-up's with SWG (started day 2), but takes too much effort. Nevertheless, I genuinely think if someone wrote down all the bad business decisions some of these companies make and show their inevitable outcome it might be worthwhile. Opposed to the regular stories of Boeing vs. Airbus etc. that people get in business schools. |
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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I'd love to see a concise write-up on the fuckups of Mourning, complete with quotes and shit.
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WayAbvPar
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I'd love to see a concise write-up on the fuckups of Mourning, complete with quotes and shit.
How can that many fuckups ever be written up concisely? The sheer volume would overwhelm. |
When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM
Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood
Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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The same way we can distill all of what was wrong with Shadowbane into 5 letters and a period.
ESSSS-BEEEE-DOT-EEEE-EKKKSSS-EEEE
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Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737
the opportunity for evil is just delicious
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yeah, all bullshit aside -- there's enough detailed players out there who save threads and collect dev quotes that if one really wanted to chart a game's career -- from hype to beta to launch to year n+1 -- I bet they could. I know with SWG on the FSCS (Jedi slot) there were several players who did so (not to beat up Raph again). An academic at a business school or just a good journalist wanting to pen a small book, could collect all the pre-beta quotes that provide expectations/intents of game design from the producers (e.g. all those early teasing IGN/Gamespot etc. interviews, E3 demos etc.) and then give the inside scope from players once the game got rolling through beta(s). We are talking about millions of bucks in revenue here, an industry on the tear with far better margins and better profitability (and overall revenue) than Hollywood. I bet some business publisher would bite. |
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Samprimary
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I believe if one were to study the dynamic interplay of the Mourning fiasco, patterns would emerge that would show that the entire process of creating such a legendary failure could be laid at the feet of the arrogant, foolhardy, and egocentric Money Man.
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