A new Poker thread

[Bunk]

So, since I mentioned here that I had won a free entry in to a big poker tournament, I thought I'd post what happened.

250 players, top 20 advance to the second day.

Everyone starts with 2000 chips.

We're down to between 35 and 40 players. Ante is 100, Blinds 500/1000.
I'm sitting at about 4000 chips, 2nd lowest stack at the table, I'm on the button.

My hand A 8 os
Position 4 goes all in for about 1100 chips.
Position 6 calls
I raise it to 2000.
Both Blinds fold.

Flop: J J 8
4 is all in
6 checks
I raise all in to about 4000
6 calls me

Hands flipped up:
4 has A 9
6 has A 9
I have A 8

I'm feeling pretty good here.

Turn: 9

I go home sad with my complimentary tee shirt and souvineer coin.
My only thought was maybe I should have went all in pre-flop, but considering I was on the button, I felt like I still had enough chips to try for a better spot if the flop didn't work out.

[Llava]

Ouch.

Bet the River was just another 9.  To nail it in.

[Madman]

Ouch that hurts.

I think I would have played it tight and folded preflop even though I have a decent hand and good position. You are running close to the bubble and you have two people calling in front of you in a what I am assuming is a 9/10 handed game. If you are trying to steal, then just push it preflop. However, if you really want to take a look at the flop do it as cheap as possible so just call preflop. Once you see the flop, I would just go ahead and check the flop because trips is a real possibility and then if someone comes out firing on the turn I would probably fold and look for a better spot.

[Abagadro]

I agree with madman with an additional point. If you are putting 50% of you chips into the middle (and really anything close to 35-40%), you should just push. You are too committed to fold, you don't have enough to raise anyone out with that size of pot and you may be forced with a tough decision that you don't want to make.  That hand was push or fold pre-flop and I would have folded with two people in ahead of me which eliminates all fold equity and my hand is likely dominated.  Tough with only 4BB and a decent Ace but you have several more hands until the blind to see something better or even go in the BB with a basically unbullyable stack.

EDIT: BTW, I think seat 6 played it the worst by smooth calling all those raises and bets with bascially sqaut.

[Margalis]

I would fold here for sure, I figure I'm dominated, and even if I'm not A8 isn't a hand I want to take into a 3 way pot for most of my chips.

If I was the first to act I would probably raise all-in. But I'm not getting involved in a 3-way. There is a huge huge difference between calling and betting. Whenever you bet you have 2 chances to win. You did raise to 2000 but there was no real chance the other player would fold to that, so it really wasn't any different than a call.

Sometimes you have a hand that might play well under some circumstances, and you try to press your luck even when you aren't in those circumstances. You have to think you are behind here and folding is free, so fold. You may not get a better hand than A8 but you probably will get a hand under better circumstances. I'd rather raise all in with KQ than call two people with A8.

[WayAbvPar]

Add me to the 'muck this preflop' list. You have 7-8 more hands before the blinds come around again to try to find something to play. Ideally you want to be the first one in the pot for all your chips while you still have some folding equity. When you are that close to the money, this is an easy laydown.

IMHO, a min raise is almost always a mistake in NL. A min raise for 1/2 your stack is an egregious error (as Ab points out above). When you raise, you need to know WHY you are raising. Do you think you have the best hand (value bet)? Do you think you can buy the pot right then? This pot is going to be at least 3-handed- do you have a hand that plays well multiway (hint- A8o doesn't qualify)?

The good news is there is always another tournament coming soon. Good luck in the next one!

[Margalis]

I always (almost always, anyway) raise same amount in NL, except if I don't have enough money. I will always raise about 3x the blind + some extra if a lot of people have always called.

One of the biggest tells in NL betting is people who overbet crap hands before the flop, and underbet great hands. People don't really want to have to play AT and 99 post-flop so they bet the hell out of them pre-flop, while they want action with their AA so they underbet it. If someone makes a small bet from early position that is very often a sign of trouble.

[Madman]

I always (almost always, anyway) raise same amount in NL, except if I don't have enough money. I will always raise about 3x the blind + some extra if a lot of people have always called.

One of the biggest tells in NL betting is people who overbet crap hands before the flop, and underbet great hands. People don't really want to have to play AT and 99 post-flop so they bet the hell out of them pre-flop, while they want action with their AA so they underbet it. If someone makes a small bet from early position that is very often a sign of trouble.

I completely agree that having consistent raises is very very important for your table image and for general play. Lately I have concentrated on having very consistent types of raises because it makes it that much harder for your opponents to decide if you are on a steal or if you are raising a legitimate hand. My range for raises is usually going to be between 3-5x BB and occasionally up to 7-10x BB, usually with a premium hand like AA-QQ, although not always :). I have found that the very few times I have min raised it has come back to bite me in the ass and 2x BB just seems too much like a min raise for my tastes, so 3-5x BB seems to be just the right amount.  I have had several people comment that they thought I was stealing after they push over the top of one of my raises and it turns out I am holding a good hand. Of course I have been busted a few times as well, but that comes with the game.

[Bunk]

Thanks for the replies all. The resoning behind my initial betting of the 2000 was all based on the person in seat 6. This lady was basically calling every hand to see the flop if she had nothing, or raising strong pre flop if she had cards. Since she only called number 4s bet of 1100, I had her pegged on a mediocre hand at best. I figured if I made the bet 2000, she'd call me whether she had a hand or not. This meant I had a little under half my stack commited, but the potential to win a pot of 6600 chips, which would have put me close to 9000 with the blinds a long ways off.

Again, just based on watching her play, once she checked on the flop I knew she hadn't hit anything. So I could either go all in and hope she wouldn't bother calling another 2200, or check and risk her hitting something on the turn.

Everyone is mentioning that I wan't wise to go in here against two other hands, but the way I saw it, The most I could lose to the guy in seta 4 wass 1100 since he was all in, so I considered that an accpetable risk.

I'm not saying I played it "properly" but really, after the flop the two of them only had 4 outs in the deck (A,J,9,9) (the small blind had the other J). So I played the hand on my read of player 6, and really, if the cards had stuck to the odds I'd have been fine.

But that's poker. :)

[WayAbvPar]

This meant I had a little under half my stack commited,

Common wisdom says that when that much of your stack is in the hand, you are pot commited anyway.

Look back at the posts- you are basing your judgement of the play based on the actual holdings of your opponents, not based on the underlying mechanics of the game or the proper strategies. The hand was misplayed in several areas.

Not trying to be a troll- just trying to help ya out  :-D

[Bunk]

Oh beleive me, I take no offense in any of the advice offered. I consider myself a relatively crappy tournament player, so I like reading the critiques.

[Madman]

Let me give you a great example of why raising half your stack sucks:

TheMadman is at seat 1 with 1735.00
grandmasta is at seat 3 with 2880.00
61big8 is at seat 5 with 1355.00
jagtboe is at seat 6 with 1360.00
badasssrt4 is at seat 8 with 1460.00
cristo is at seat 9 with 5910.00

jagtboe posts the large blind 200.00
61big8 posts the small blind 100.00

61big8: --, --
jagtboe: --, --
badasssrt4: --, --
cristo: --, --
TheMadman: 8h, 8d
grandmasta: --, --

Pre-flop:

badasssrt4: Call 200.00
cristo: Fold
TheMadman: Raise 800.00
grandmasta: Call 800.00
61big8: Call 800.00
jagtboe: Fold
badasssrt4: Call 800.00

Flop (Board: Jh, Ks, 3h):

61big8: Check
badasssrt4: Check
TheMadman: Check
grandmasta: Bet 935.00
61big8: All in
badasssrt4: All in
TheMadman: Fold

Now this happened towards the end of a 10 person SG and I had a pretty tight image, even though I didn't have a lot of chips. If I remember right I lost about 1k to a suckout, but that may just be from another SnG. Anyway, my raises were being respected and I was usually able to steal the blinds with a decent raise. Unfortunately this time I got 3 people called my raise and when the flop came down I knew I was totally stuck because with 3 people seeing the flop I am almost certain someone hit that flop. I was forced to fold this hand and I think I ended up going out on the bubble, but I don't remember off hand.

Not that it really matters, but grandmasta ended up winning the hand with pocket rockets. 61big ended up holding QT and I don't remember what badass had but I think he completely missed the flop or maybe he had a pair. Unfortunately for me an 8 hit the turn and I would have won the whole thing.

[WayAbvPar]

Two reasons for this post-

First- I was playing a SnG and a MTT at the same time last night. In the MTT, had KQs in the small blind. 2 limpers to me, I raise it 5x the bb, get 1 caller. Flop is Kxx. EP bets, I raise allin, he has AA (he limped with it and didn't reraise preflop. Arggh). I am down to like $147 (BB is $100 at this point). On the button the very next hand, I get J7s, and decide to try to get lucky. 2 limpers to me, I shove, small blind calls, BB reraises allin. Everyone folds, and I get shown AA again. Exit stage left.

On to the SnG- I have battled to the final 6 (pays 4). I am about 4th in chips at this point. I get AK in LP. 2 limpers to me, I raise it, one caller. Flop is Kxx. EP bets into me, I reraise all in, he calls and shows me AA. AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! These three hands occured within 5 minutes of each other. Needless to say, I was done with poker for the night. Fuck me running.

The 2nd reason for my post was to pass this along. Some of you may have seen it before...it is the absolute epitome of Unintentional Comedy. What a fucking douchebag.

[Daydreamer]

this

What are those white thngies on that loosers glasses?  With glasses bigger than my brother's VW Bug's windshield I'm thinking sunflaps for sunny days.

[Toast]

Down here on the mortal level, we carry all kinds of people's expectations around with us. We're afraid to bust out early, squandering both our buy-in and our fragile, fearful egos. From Olympian heights, Antonio looks down and says, "Hey, right play is right play." That's why he's never afraid to make the right move at the right time, even if that time is the first ten minutes of a tournament, and even if the move goes wrong.

Taken from that site.

[Abagadro]

Just got my Dell 2001fp  20.1" LCD monitor for 4-tabling. It is luv.

[WayAbvPar]

I bought a 21'' ViewSonic after winning a poker tournament back in December. It is a beautiful thing.

I rarely 4-table- I usually play 2 or 3, and leave the other section open for web browsing, IMs, etc.