Statesman says "oops"

[Glazius]

Long version

Short version:

STATESMAN: Look, even with the changes to /regen scrappers you guys aren't that bad. Here's a video with a regen scrapper taking on +7 Behemoths and coming out on top!

DA BOARDS: Those numbers look a little... off.

STATESMAN: . . . well, holy shit. When we shut down the level adjustments for the Arena it must have spread to the rest of the testbed. So _every hero we tested_ was looking more awesome against high level mobs than they had any right to. Thanks, you guys. Of course, now we have to retest _everything_...

Still no word on the end rebalance for issue 4, or what else might have been balanced with this bug taken into account. It just gave me a little warm feeling to see somebody admitting to being fallible on the Internet, so I thought I'd share.

--GF

[Llava]

Heh.

You know, I'm really not sure that some of the developers for MMOGs I've played would've actually owned up to the mistake.  They'd probably fix it silently and do the retesting, but players would be left to guess wtf happened.

[HaemishM]

Cryptic wins the coveted "Not Being Cockmunch Pigfucker Developers" Award.

[jpark]

These guys have my upmost respect.  Just reaffirming.

[shiznitz]

Isn't this what basically happened in EQ1 regarding alchemy? Except in that case SOE told the players they were WRONG WRONG WRONG! for almost a year.

Gotta love a lead dev who trusts his players more than his team as far as game mechanics go.

[WayAbvPar]

Cryptic wins the coveted "Not Being Cockmunch Pigfucker Developers" Award.

Unfortunately, they were the only ones eligible.

[tazelbain]

Three Rings and eGenesis too, but maybe they are too small.

[HaemishM]

While both successful, yeah, they are too small to be able to get away with being Cockmunch Pigfucker Developers. When you piss off 10% of your user base regularly, it hurts a lot more when 10% = 200 out of 2000 than when 10% = 20,000 out of 200,000.

[Jealous Deva]

Eh, what's the difference when all the nerfs are going in anyway?  Bad testing, good testing, Cloak of Fear is still getting castrate despite DA coming in last among scrappers in testing,  Elude is still getting castrated, MOG is still getting castrated, Regen enhancements are still getting their effects cut by 50%, what's changed exactly?  The only thing is that rather than the justification being based on a false test it's being based on a more accurate one.


The only difference between COH and other devs is that the COH guys patiently explain why they are going to fuck you in the ass.

I hate to say it but the downward spiral is now in full force with COH.  Fixing crap that didn't need to be fixed (Started with fulcrum shift, now on to travel powers anyone?  Energy absorbtion?  Cloak of Fear?  Nerfing the acc on invincibility?  Does anyone really think the ACC boost on invincibility is what's making invuln so great?  Hello?)  Not fixing crap that does need to be fixed (stamina - why isn't this an inherant power?   Hasten - how did this power make it out of beta as a permable power?  SO's - as much as I hate to say it, 300% is too much.  It was too much with defensive powers, what makes offensive powers any different?)

If the devs really wanted to balance COH (and this crap should have been done in beta) they'd do 4 things:

1. Make fitness inherant like brawl or sprint, you still need to slot them but don't have to waste 3 slots and they're availible from the beginning.  This is key along with the below because it lets you actually balance early and mid-late level content, you don't have a giant jump in player ability at 20-25 and you don't have a giant gap in capability between newbies and those "in the know".

2.  Ditch hasten.  Give hasten as it is now to SR, put quickness from SR in it's place in the speed set.  What idiot designed this power?  Who's idea was it to make a power that gives TWICE as much benefit as any other recharge boost in the game (SB, quickness, amplify metabolism - all are in the 25% range)?  And then make it availible ALL the time?  As the FIRST power in a power pool availible to everyone? Hello?  Anyone in there?

3.  Defenses.  Slash them across the board.  Two good suggestions I've heard are dividing all def and resists currently in the game by 2, or making resists and defense multiplicative (IE RPD at 15% + TI at 30% = 1-(1-15%)(1-30%) = 40% rather than 45%).  This becomes important as you reach higher numbers.  Right now the game is impossible to balance at high levels, because in order to threaten a tanker with 2000 HP and 90% damage resistance, AVs and even bosses are having to hit for crazy high amounts like 1500-2500.  Amounts that one shot blasters, defenders, and controllers without those defenses.  It's appropriate for a tanker to be 3 or 4 times harder to kill than a blaster.  It's not appropriate for a tanker to be 30 or 40 times harder to kill than a blaster, which is the current norm, which leads to all the insane one-shotting at higher levels and the problems with blasters, defenders, and controllers dieing because some random enemy decided to take a swing at them or they got too close to an aoe attack.

4.  SO's. 33% is too much.  Attacks right now are completely worthless unslotted.  Completely.  Things like 15 pets being out at a time are insane.  3x difference in effectiveness is just too big a gulf.  The devs in thier infinite wisdom realized this for defensive powers when they reduced effectiveness of sos to 20%, but they left everything else alone.  This by itself is why we had things like perma-xxxx, this excacerbates every problem in the game because an overpowered power isn't now just overpowered, when you throw SO's in it it's MASSIVELY overpowered.  One set of fire imps isn't really that much more impressive than one Jack frost.  4 sets of fire imps is a hell of a lot more impressive than 4 jack frosts.  Etc.  Reduce all SO's to defensive power levels.  225% is enough of a max to be achievable by a character alone, and leaves plenty of room for HamiOs, defender buffs, etc.

Of course, after all that, you'd have to spend a month or two on:

5.  Rebalance enemies from 1-50.  Redo the con system so it actually means something, and enemies don't go from Stupidly Easy at +3 to Fucking Impossible at +5 or 6.  Make it so a white enemy is the same threat whether you're level 1 or level 50 (or make it where you can take on MORE enemies of the same con as you level up, but cons are appropriately HARDER as they go up in color from 1-50).

and

6.  Balance XP so that it doesn't take 1500 fucking hours to get to level 50 with the above changes.  For every increase in difficulty or reduction in power give more experience per kill.  300 hours which seems to be about average to 50 now for scrappers is an appropriate amount of time to spend on a single character.  This should NOT be changed.  Nor should sets be busted down to make the time LONGER without giving anything back, as is going on now on live.

All this sounds extreme, but that's what it's going to take to get the game the devs want.  So do it.  Stop fucking around with stupid shit like borked pvp, nerfing travel powers, gimping already gimped sets, etc.  Take 5,7,10 months and go into hiding, then come out with COH 2.0, put it on test server for 3 or 4 months to make sure it's solid as a rock, then get it PERFECT, then put it on live and DON'T FUCK WITH IT ANY MORE.

/rant off

[CmdrSlack]

Eh, what's the difference when all the nerfs are going in anyway?  Bad testing, good testing, Cloak of Fear is still getting castrate despite DA coming in last among scrappers in testing,  Elude is still getting castrated, MOG is still getting castrated, Regen enhancements are still getting their effects cut by 50%, what's changed exactly?  The only thing is that rather than the justification being based on a false test it's being based on a more accurate one.


The only difference between COH and other devs is that the COH guys patiently explain why they are going to fuck you in the ass.

I hate to say it but the downward spiral is now in full force with COH.  Fixing crap that didn't need to be fixed (Started with fulcrum shift, now on to travel powers anyone?  Energy absorbtion?  Cloak of Fear?  Nerfing the acc on invincibility?  Does anyone really think the ACC boost on invincibility is what's making invuln so great?  Hello?)  Not fixing crap that does need to be fixed (stamina - why isn't this an inherant power?   Hasten - how did this power make it out of beta as a permable power?  SO's - as much as I hate to say it, 300% is too much.  It was too much with defensive powers, what makes offensive powers any different?)

If the devs really wanted to balance COH (and this crap should have been done in beta) they'd do 4 things:

1. Make fitness inherant like brawl or sprint, you still need to slot them but don't have to waste 3 slots and they're availible from the beginning.  This is key along with the below because it lets you actually balance early and mid-late level content, you don't have a giant jump in player ability at 20-25 and you don't have a giant gap in capability between newbies and those "in the know".

2.  Ditch hasten.  Give hasten as it is now to SR, put quickness from SR in it's place in the speed set.  What idiot designed this power?  Who's idea was it to make a power that gives TWICE as much benefit as any other recharge boost in the game (SB, quickness, amplify metabolism - all are in the 25% range)?  And then make it availible ALL the time?  As the FIRST power in a power pool availible to everyone? Hello?  Anyone in there?

3.  Defenses.  Slash them across the board.  Two good suggestions I've heard are dividing all def and resists currently in the game by 2, or making resists and defense multiplicative (IE RPD at 15% + TI at 30% = 1-(1-15%)(1-30%) = 40% rather than 45%).  This becomes important as you reach higher numbers.  Right now the game is impossible to balance at high levels, because in order to threaten a tanker with 2000 HP and 90% damage resistance, AVs and even bosses are having to hit for crazy high amounts like 1500-2500.  Amounts that one shot blasters, defenders, and controllers without those defenses.  It's appropriate for a tanker to be 3 or 4 times harder to kill than a blaster.  It's not appropriate for a tanker to be 30 or 40 times harder to kill than a blaster, which is the current norm, which leads to all the insane one-shotting at higher levels and the problems with blasters, defenders, and controllers dieing because some random enemy decided to take a swing at them or they got too close to an aoe attack.

4.  SO's. 33% is too much.  Attacks right now are completely worthless unslotted.  Completely.  Things like 15 pets being out at a time are insane.  3x difference in effectiveness is just too big a gulf.  The devs in thier infinite wisdom realized this for defensive powers when they reduced effectiveness of sos to 20%, but they left everything else alone.  This by itself is why we had things like perma-xxxx, this excacerbates every problem in the game because an overpowered power isn't now just overpowered, when you throw SO's in it it's MASSIVELY overpowered.  One set of fire imps isn't really that much more impressive than one Jack frost.  4 sets of fire imps is a hell of a lot more impressive than 4 jack frosts.  Etc.  Reduce all SO's to defensive power levels.  225% is enough of a max to be achievable by a character alone, and leaves plenty of room for HamiOs, defender buffs, etc.

Of course, after all that, you'd have to spend a month or two on:

5.  Rebalance enemies from 1-50.  Redo the con system so it actually means something, and enemies don't go from Stupidly Easy at +3 to Fucking Impossible at +5 or 6.  Make it so a white enemy is the same threat whether you're level 1 or level 50 (or make it where you can take on MORE enemies of the same con as you level up, but cons are appropriately HARDER as they go up in color from 1-50).

and

6.  Balance XP so that it doesn't take 1500 fucking hours to get to level 50 with the above changes.  For every increase in difficulty or reduction in power give more experience per kill.  300 hours which seems to be about average to 50 now for scrappers is an appropriate amount of time to spend on a single character.  This should NOT be changed.  Nor should sets be busted down to make the time LONGER without giving anything back, as is going on now on live.

All this sounds extreme, but that's what it's going to take to get the game the devs want.  So do it.  Stop fucking around with stupid shit like borked pvp, nerfing travel powers, gimping already gimped sets, etc.  Take 5,7,10 months and go into hiding, then come out with COH 2.0, put it on test server for 3 or 4 months to make sure it's solid as a rock, then get it PERFECT, then put it on live and DON'T FUCK WITH IT ANY MORE.

/rant off

Psycho.

Had to be done.

[Llava]

Speaking from the perspective of a level 50 MA/SR scrapper with experience in a perma-elude build...

Anyone who didn't see the perma-Elude nerf coming was dreaming.  It was overpowered.  It's getting fixed.  That's what SHOULD be done.  With perma-elude I was able to solo, among others:
Tyrant
Psychic Babbage
Psychic Clockwork King
Dreck
Mother Mayhem
Bobcat
Nightstar
Requiem

And for folks who relied on perma-elude for PvP, the devs are doing you a favor by taking it away from you.  Perma-elude doesn't work well in PvP, since you can die and all your click powers will still be down when you respawn.

I also run a level 40 DM/DA who makes almost no use of Cloak of Fear.  Just cause the forums say "This is the ONLY way to play this power set!" doesn't make it true.  Personally, I'm doing just fine using 6 slotted Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud and Obsidian Shield with Acrobatics.  This is especially the case for PvP where, with a little support, I far outperform other scrappers due to the simple fact that I lack an achilles heel.  Toss on a constantly pulsing fear that hits everything around me and basically makes every fight I'm in into a 1 on Whatever-I-Have fight until I'm ready for the next one and yeah, I'm overpowered.

Regen I haven't played beyond 14, so I can't say with certainty that the nerfs to it were needed.  Though I have a hunch.

But all this is aside from the point.

The point is that Cryptic really does run the numbers, and they're accurate numbers.  Bitch all you want, they're doing their homework before they nerf someone.  And if it turns out that they were still wrong, they've taken it back in every case that I can think of.  Burn nerf, undone.  Accelerate Metabolism nerf, undone.  Regen nerf, undone.  And beyond doing their homework, they're communicating honestly with the player base.  Just because you think they're wrong doesn't mean they are.  So far they're doing a better job at being a dev team than any MMOG I've seen.  Christ, a year after release and you can still shoot the lead developer a PM and expect a response in about a day.  It's hard to beat Cryptic for just plain charisma, even if you don't think they're taking the right path with the game.  Personally, I agree with their changes.  I've got a guy in my SG complaining about the perma-Elude nerf.  He's fucking dreaming.  It was overpowered, deal with it.  Next time, don't jump on the "OMG THIS IS THE BEST POWER EVAR" bandwagon and you won't get fucked.

And no, they shouldn't lower the defenses available in the game.  Tankers are awesome at taking/avoiding damage, at an epic level even.  They should stay right where they are.  I look at a CoH tanker and I think "THAT is a freakin TANK."  I look at a Warrior in WoW or a Hero/Armsman/Warrior in DAoC and I think "Are they /really/ that much better than a Paladin/Druid/Blademaster/Mercenary/Berserker?"  Tankers in CoH are what every other MMOG promises defense-heavy melee characters.

All that said, I do agree that something needs to happen with Stamina and Hasten to avoid locking players into these paradigms.  Though I hesitate to remove Hasten, as so many sets are just plain MORE FUN with it.  And more fun=good.

[MaceVanHoffen]

I'm going to have to take the other side on this one.  I had faith in Cryptic, but it's starting to waver.  I just don't see where most of these nerfs are needed, especially /regen and the travel power nerfs.  In my experience, having played to 50 as an MA/regen, I can't do anything other scrappers (and other AT's that aren't melee) can't do.  I find it hard to believe the game was so broken as to require such major changes a year after its release.

The devs haven't taken every nerf back.  The salient example:  The mysterious dropping of Integration's effectiveness is still there on live.  That was pretty insulting to all those (me included) who put in time testing the change.  Why should we bother testing if the devs will secretly change parameters after an Issue is released?  I let it go at the time.  But now, with all the changes to accomodate something I wasn't interested in when I bought the game (PvP), my patience is wearing thin.

I find it fascinating that people will say, "It's only on test, not on live!"  There's a problem inherent in that defense.  What goes on test is indicative of the devs' thinking.  It's disturbing that anyone would even conjure the thought that SS and SJ need accuracy debuffs, regardless of whether it makes it to live.  That's the kind of game design EQ engaged in, where "difficult" means "pain in the ass for no reason other than being a pain in the ass".  Cryptic is beginning to show signs that they've forgotten why games exist in the first place:  for players to have fun.  They do not exist so that developers can mentally jackoff over "pure" and "balanced" game mechanics.

[Sky]

It's disturbing that anyone would even conjure the thought that SS and SJ need accuracy debuffs

They don't?

That's a smack in the face to this flyer...

[MaceVanHoffen]

It's disturbing that anyone would even conjure the thought that SS and SJ need accuracy debuffs

They don't?

That's a smack in the face to this flyer...

I play fliers too.  Don't be quick to take umbrage.

Here's a thought:  Why not remove the accuracy debuff from Fly?  The devs had three choices:  leave things alone, increase the effectiveness of one power, or nerf multiple powers.  Which choice did they put on test?  That's right Merv, I'll take door #3.  That is as much a statement on Cryptic's current psychology as an inkblot test.

[Strazos]

I'm not even playing anymore, and I still have no problem with my SS being nerfed for accuracy. The only people who leave these on while in active combat are exploiters. Nerfing SS and SL accuracy makes as much sense as nerfing Fly's accuracy.

[eldaec]

Personally I think it's daft.

heh - SS actually had a def bonus at launch.

Beats me why even fly really needs an acc debuff. I'd rather they increased the end cost on SS & SJ if for some reason they needed nerfing.

And all the travel powers are irrelevant in pvp anyway as you can turn them off as a ground rule.

[Jain Zar]

6.  Balance XP so that it doesn't take 1500 fucking hours to get to level 50 with the above changes.  For every increase in difficulty or reduction in power give more experience per kill.  300 hours which seems to be about average to 50 now for scrappers is an appropriate amount of time to spend on a single character.  This should NOT be changed.  Nor should sets be busted down to make the time LONGER without giving anything back, as is going on now on live.

300 hours is an acceptable timeframe to level 50?
There isn't enough to make it fun for 100 hours to 50 with the same toon. 
Half the fun in this game is making new characters and playing with them for a while.  Make levelling up fast but give reasons to try out new archetypes and powers.

300 hours is SIX long solo player games with lots of content.  Im not sure there is 300 hours of content in this game for every character class COMBINED.

[Llava]

Personally I think it's daft.

heh - SS actually had a def bonus at launch.

Beats me why even fly really needs an acc debuff. I'd rather they increased the end cost on SS & SJ if for some reason they needed nerfing.

And all the travel powers are irrelevant in pvp anyway as you can turn them off as a ground rule.

Yeah, you CAN turn them off.  Shouldn't have to, though.  And if you've played against some folks... such as a spines scrapper using Super Speed to do hit and run ranged attacks and be completely immune to return attacks from some characters... you'll see why it's a pretty damn decent idea.  I don't even get why people are so against this, unless they were planning on using that cheeseball strategy.  Did you leave your travel powers on during combat?  I know I never have the endurance to do that on any of my characters.

[eldaec]

With super speed I sometimes do, mostly my concern is that I will often at least enter combat with them on, and I don't especially wish to lose my first attack to the -acc effect not disappearing quickly enough.

Also, even if it does disappear instantly: keyboard macros. You can't macro multiple powerexec commands in game, but it would be trivial to macro speed off, attack, speed on in the operating system layer. Maybe they could get around this by putting in an activation delay, which I would also hate due to the effect it would have on my ability to escape in pve or pvp.

I guess my issue with all of this is that I see city of heroes pvp as an mildly interesting diversion rather than anything more, and to be quite honest I don't really care if it's balanced. I'm only really judging these things on whether they will make pve more or less fun.

[Glazius]

With super speed I sometimes do, mostly my concern is that I will often at least enter combat with them on, and I don't especially wish to lose my first attack to the -acc effect not disappearing quickly enough.

Also, even if it does disappear instantly: keyboard macros. You can't macro multiple powerexec commands in game, but it would be trivial to macro speed off, attack, speed on in the operating system layer. Maybe they could get around this by putting in an activation delay, which I would also hate due to the effect it would have on my ability to escape in pve or pvp.

I guess my issue with all of this is that I see city of heroes pvp as an mildly interesting diversion rather than anything more, and to be quite honest I don't really care if it's balanced. I'm only really judging these things on whether they will make pve more or less fun.

You _can_ macro speed on, move, speed off. There's a bind program called "Speed on Demand" focused around creating binds for just such an occasion.

--GF

[eldaec]

It breaks easily though - and it's based on changing binds rather than macros.

Effectively you bind a button press to speed-on and a button release to speed-off. Problem is you can only use it while going in one direction without causing potential problems if another key is pressed before the first is released.

And it still means that either the -acc wil screw with people's first attacks, or more inventive players can work around the -acc restriction in the OS layer.

[Llava]

If you jump and shut off super speed in mid-air, you'll stay at that speed until you land.  So just do that before running into the middle of a group.

[MaceVanHoffen]

I'm not even playing anymore, and I still have no problem with my SS being nerfed for accuracy. The only people who leave these on while in active combat are exploiters. Nerfing SS and SL accuracy makes as much sense as nerfing Fly's accuracy.

Don't be an ass.  You must've just totally missed basic concepts to think that.  If you're a squishie, SS is one of the only defenses you have post 30, as it gives you a reliable mechanism to move around a combat doing your thing (buffing, blasting, etc).  For a blaster, that means attacking.

Nerfing the accuracy only makes sense if you believe making a game difficult is synonymous with making it a pain in the ass.

[eldaec]

If you jump and shut off super speed in mid-air, you'll stay at that speed until you land.  So just do that before running into the middle of a group.

Jolly good. But fundamentally, if I can work around it in PvE, then exploiters can do the same in PvP.

If I can't work around it in PvE, the game just got slightly less fun.

Only slightly, but it's still something the devs need to be sensitive to given that I suspect most people in game see pvp as a fun diversion rather than a core game objective.

The reason I'm looking forward to CoV is much more about how much the devs have improved their pve content in the last year (Striga Island >>> Perez fucking Park), and about how CoV promises a whole city of Striga Islands, than it is about pvp.

[shiznitz]

Request for small derail:

I stopped playing CoH before Striga. What is so good about it? Level range? I have a 24 blaster.

[Glazius]

Request for small derail:

I stopped playing CoH before Striga. What is so good about it? Level range? I have a 24 blaster.

You're in range! It goes from 20 to 29.

What's so good about it is that the spawns are a lot more dynamic. Council soldiers will actually be out on patrol around their base, a trade will be going on at the docks with Warriors and Family wheeling carts back and forth, the Banished Pantheon are "recruiting" in the cemetary with picks and shovels, the Sky Raiders are trying to blow the Council mechs out of the air and doing test flights out of various hangars. Vampyri and warwolves come out at night and start prowling.

The missions there also give some nice long-lasting temporary powers. Holy shotgun shells, a magic ring that adds about 50% resist everything, and a whistle to summon up your own puppy! (Puppy may be seven feet tall with lethal claws.)

It all caps off with the Ernesto Hess taskforce, which has you running up the scaffolding of a GIANT ROBOT inside a SECRET VOLCANO BASE which then SELF-DESTRUCTS.

--GF

[Strazos]

Word. I need to try this out with my high-20's Scrapper before my sub ends.

[Llava]

If you jump and shut off super speed in mid-air, you'll stay at that speed until you land.  So just do that before running into the middle of a group.

Jolly good. But fundamentally, if I can work around it in PvE, then exploiters can do the same in PvP.

If I can't work around it in PvE, the game just got slightly less fun.

Only slightly, but it's still something the devs need to be sensitive to given that I suspect most people in game see pvp as a fun diversion rather than a core game objective.

The reason I'm looking forward to CoV is much more about how much the devs have improved their pve content in the last year (Striga Island >>> Perez fucking Park), and about how CoV promises a whole city of Striga Islands, than it is about pvp.

It would be extremely awkward to pull this off in PvP.

The problem with the PvP is the "hit and run" attacks that make players with super speed virtually untouchable to a good number of archetypes.  The complaint is that this effects the "super speed in and PBAE" tactic that lots of people use in PvE, but it really doesn't as noted by my solution posted above.  There's nothing wrong with using that tactic in PvP either, as it leaves you vulnerable to attack for a period.  It's the endless kiting that doesn't work well with PvP.

As a note, the endless kiting strategy doesn't work in PvE because nearly every enemy has a significantly powerful ranged attack.  So doing what people are using it to do in PvP is a waste of effort in PvE.

So no, this shouldn't really affect your PvE game.  The only strategy it impedes is the "zoom in and PBAE" technique which, as noted, can still be done with slightly more effort.

[Llava]

Well, even though I still think it's a bunch of silly whining it seems that Cryptic is still listening to the players, despite what some of the players say:

From States-

First of all, thank you for everyone who got on the Training Room server and gave us feedback. It was always appreciated.

Secondly, I've got some news for the Superspeed and Super Jump crowd. The Accuracy debuff, though only equal to Flight, has negatively impacted players' gameplay. I challenged myself and our team to come up with a possible alternative to a flat out debuff - and yet still address the PvE and PvP issues with both powers.

Our solution: suppression. When someone attacks, they temporarily suppress their speed or leaping - making them temporarily vulnerable to attack (and we've removed the accuracy debuff). We're playtesting it internally now and we hope to get it up to the Training Room server for your input ASAP.

Inevitably: so why did we push the update live? Basically, some problems are "showstoppers" and others aren't. Yes, the Accuracy debuff is unpopular (as most power tweaks or nerfs are perceived), but it doesn't cripple the game. I didn't think that this single problem should derail our publishing process.

Now - Scrappers and defensive sets. Yes, there are discrepancies overall in some of the capabilties of the defensive sets. That's pretty obvious from our posting of internal test results. And yes, some of the already disadvantaged sets received balance changes. Basically, we are now looking at all the defensive sets and trying to bring balance to them all. In short, I understand that there are imbalances and we are working on them.

Lastly, let me talk about balance and fun. Balance for the sake of balance is useless - there needs to be a goal. In this case, the goal is fun. Right now, certain Archetypes and builds laugh at missions set on the HIGHEST difficulty levels. So, they eschew missions. Just don't do them. They completely bypass that content and instead hit the streets in order to find a worthwhile challenge. And missions are some of the best parts of the game! Now, you can say that this isn't true - and I'm sure that it's a subjective thing. But missions offer the same variety as street spawns, but new art, new objectives, etc. When people seek challenges on the street only, they're missing some of the best fun.

The obvious comeback - "make missions harder" - we did. Players can ramp a mission up to +4 levels. And there some hard caps on what else can be done on that level. "Make mobs harder" - we tried that with bosses in I3 and the forums didn't like it much.

So are we nerf happy? Are we dooooommmmmeeedd? I've always said that risk = reward. What does that mean? Well, once we do some more internal testing and put stuff up on the Training Room server, I'll be able to explain that better.

Another post from States a bit later-

    TY Statesman. Thats all I wanted and you did it. You continue to break the mold when it comes to developers.

Thank you - and to all the other great fans out there.

I'll wax personal for a moment, if only because something bothers me a little. We really do care. We listen. We read. And, where possible, we adapt. People say - "the devs don't care - it's their game", etc., etc. Yet each issue we've gone to great lengths to listen to the community and make changes. I freely admit that I could post more - and I really try to get on the boards alot. I know that I could post more things like "I'm still reading, but believe that our changes are still for the best" to at least people know that we're still listening. It's just that by now, I'd hope that you guys know that we really do take feedback and respond.

[eldaec]

The SS/SJ change sounds much better - though it will be interesting to see how long 'temporarily' is.