This leveling business.

[lamaros]

So I resubbed to WoW a month or so ago. Today I cancelled my subscription again, with it running out on the 20th. Right now I'm thinking I'll probably subscribe again for WotLK when it comes out, assuming that is the end of this year, but there are many things making me think "maybe not":

The main one, the real problem I have with WoW above and beyond anything else (and I have a lot of issues with it), is this leveling business.

I made a Warlock at original release and leveled it up to about level 50 before I got bored. I then switched over to a Priest and got him to about level 40 before things started to slow down; I got sick of repeating the same quests and dungeons I'd just done with my Warlock. So I switched back to the lock. I got to 60 and found the game lacking and stopped playing. I'd had a couple of months of fun, some frustration, and was done with the game.

I came back and gave the game another go when the news about TBC looked like fixing some of the problems I had with the game, and giving enough new stuff that I would at least enjoy it for a while. I hopped back on a month of two before the expansion came out and leveled my priest up to 60. It wasn't so bad doing the quests and dungeons again because I hadn't played for over a year and things felt newish again. When the expansion came out I played my Warlock leveled up and raided for a while. Then I stopped again.

So when I came back this time I had a couple of options; I could play my level 70 warlock, my level 60-something Priest, or I could play a new character. Given that I had spent most of my time on my Warlock I was complately sick of it and didn't want to play it anymore, and my Priest was also a bit boring, so I decided that I'd go for something new and level up a Paladin.

My Paladin is now level 61, with around 4 days /played and I'm getting bored again. Doing the early stuff up to level 60 was pretty fun really. I hadn't done a lot of that stuff for nearly 4 years so it felt newish, and there have also been a lot of changes in certain places also (extensive reitemization of dungeons, some zones and quest chains fixed or expanded). On top of that there is so much content there that I could just skip the bits I didn't like and go level somewhere else. The expansion zones are not the same though; because I did them only a year and a bit ago things are much less new, because they are even more linear there is almost nothing I missed doing the first time around, and there have been very few changes in other areas. All in all the idea of doing everything again is frightfully boring. I'd like to get the Paladin to 70 and mess around, but I don't really have the motivation to spend so much time getting there given that time will be spent repeating things.

Now as far as all this goes it's just a personal story, so I want to give this a wider application:

When WotLK comes out people will be enjoying new content primarily in the level 70 to 80 bracket. To enjoy a completely new experience they will therefore have to use the highest level character(s) they currently have. So someone buying the expansion is basically commiting to playing the character they already have. For people like me, who just don't want to play that character (my 'lock) at all, I have to make a further commitment. To plough through old content and get the character I do want to play up to the level cap. People wanting to play a different character will have to have a *heap* of free time. I know the game fairly well and played almost every day for two months and got a character to level 60. I expect if I rushed I could have got my Pally to 70 by now, but it would not have been as fun and I would have had to play even more.

Blizzard would love me, and people like me, to buy the expansion. They obviously realise how annoying the leveling process is if all you want to do is see the new stuff too, because they're starting the DK off at level 55, so why don't they address it more directly. Why don't they let us make any class starting off at level 55? Or better yet at 70? Or why not give us an option to 'reclass', to change the class of one of our characters, permenantly for a fee, to an equal level character of a different class. I was willing to turn my level 70 Warlock into a level 55 DK if I had to, I would be willing to pay to turn him into a different class too.

The fact you can start a DK at level 55 is the reason I will probably buy the expansion. If you couldn't then I likely would not. However knowing that I have 60-70 in repeated content ahead of by before I can even get to the stuff I would be buying the expansion for is making me think 'is it really worth it?'. Were it not for the fact that I will likely have the time to catass to 70 and thus rush past the TBC stuff I would probably not buy the expansion, even though I would want to play it.

Which is of course absurd. Not buying something you want to play because you are unable to py it without first replaying something you've already played. 

This is perhaps a polite rant, but I wonder how much longer it will go before Blizzard bites in the inevitable bullet and makes the game more accessable to those who enjoy playing it, but do not enjoy being forced to spend *days* in the game doing stuff they've already done to continue doing so.

[Fabricated]

I imagine the only reason Blizz is letting us roll a DK at 55 is because we only get ONE per server. Letting people insta-roll equipped level 55 toons of any class for example would completely fuck just about anyone who was truly new to the game since they'd have a lot less people to group with (and a lot less veteran players to give some advice/help). The leveling/itemization changes were perfect for people rerolling IMO. 50-60 is pretty drag-ass still but 1-50 just blows by now and it blows by even faster if you actually bother to do 5-mans because you get a LOT of experience running those with roughly equal level players, not to mention that a lot of the gear is *gasp* useful now.

60-70 isn't too bad IMO as long as you can grit your teeth through whatever zone you hate (and everyone has one). You can quest 60-70 very very easily without ever setting foot inside of an instance. Typically you'll end up overleveling content if you run each instance more than 2-3 times as you get to them.

[Selby]

60-70 isn't too bad IMO as long as you can grit your teeth through whatever zone you hate (and everyone has one).

Unfortunately I hate Hellfire Peninsula and only managed to get to 62 from 60 before the quests were up and I hated most of it (fucking giant elite 70 and nasty hogs that aggro forever).  Not even sure where to go from there as if it is more of HF Peninsula style zones, I am going to HATE it.  Everyone calls me a n00b for riding a standard L40 mount =P

[ShenMolo]

Blizzard has steadily made the 1-60 game easier to level through. They will most likely continue to do so, perhaps not as quickly as many would like (myself included). I think they understand the desires of what I'll call serial re-subscribers (again, myself included) who want to come back from time to time but want to avoid the tedium.

Have you played both factions?

Also, if you have never played a hunter before I would highly recommend it. There are quests & mobs hunters can do at levels that other classes can't. Kinda spices things up taking down red bosses (or what used to be elites I guess). Pally and Priest are kinda painful for leveling.

Are you grinding or questing? If you enjoy questing mainly, find and download either Joanna's (Horde) or Brian Kopp's (Ally) leveling guides. They aren't perfect, but I find it fun nowadays to try and level a toon in the most efficient way possible and these guides help. There are also mods which do the same thing.

If your tired of the solo scene, keep an eye on the guild recruitment forums for re-roll guilds. You can meet new folks while leveling up a new toon. If it doesn't work out with the new guild then you can just transfer the toon to your other server or join a different guild.

[Fabricated]

60-70 isn't too bad IMO as long as you can grit your teeth through whatever zone you hate (and everyone has one).

Unfortunately I hate Hellfire Peninsula and only managed to get to 62 from 60 before the quests were up and I hated most of it (fucking giant elite 70 and nasty hogs that aggro forever).  Not even sure where to go from there as if it is more of HF Peninsula style zones, I am going to HATE it.  Everyone calls me a n00b for riding a standard L40 mount =P

Nah, each of the zones are pretty distinct in design/layout. Zangarmarsh always comes after HFP in terms of raw levels, but that zone I hate since I get sick of seeing blue. Nagrand is fantastic, Terokkar is pretty cool, Blade's Edge is...eh, Netherstorm/Shadowmoon Valley are a matter of preference but they're not bad either.

[Kitsune]

Zangarmarsh is fantastic if you're an alchemist.  Everything's a walking herb, you just need to hit them with a stick for a bit to stop them moving around long enough to stick in your bag.

[Nebu]

First time to 70 the game was fun.  Lots to see, inside humor to find, and quests to explore. 

Second time to 70... ok, still fun.  New class abilities.  New people to meet.  Some quests missed the first time. 

Third time it's getting to be like a job, but still a well-crafted game.  Appreciate some subtleties I missed before.  Finally got to experience some group content. 

Fourth time... chore.

All in all, I'd say that WoW did a good job for holding the attention of someone that's played it all.  I want to complain, but it's really just minor.  I even hated the cartoonish graphical style and it kept me playing. 

I've learned a lot about why I like mmo's and what I like/dislike about them from WoW.  It surprises that I can be completely over this game and yet can still speak of it pretty positively.

[lamaros]

I imagine the only reason Blizz is letting us roll a DK at 55 is because we only get ONE per server. Letting people insta-roll equipped level 55 toons of any class for example would completely fuck just about anyone who was truly new to the game since they'd have a lot less people to group with (and a lot less veteran players to give some advice/help). The leveling/itemization changes were perfect for people rerolling IMO. 50-60 is pretty drag-ass still but 1-50 just blows by now and it blows by even faster if you actually bother to do 5-mans because you get a LOT of experience running those with roughly equal level players, not to mention that a lot of the gear is *gasp* useful now.

60-70 isn't too bad IMO as long as you can grit your teeth through whatever zone you hate (and everyone has one). You can quest 60-70 very very easily without ever setting foot inside of an instance. Typically you'll end up overleveling content if you run each instance more than 2-3 times as you get to them.

You make a good point about starting at level 55 impacting new players, however I would counter with.

If you have the option to turn a level 70 into a level 55 you're not actually impacting on this, because if you're playing the level 70 otherwise.
Some servers are pretty empty when leveling anyway, and the gmae is very solo friendly while leveling.

So overall, letting players convert a level 70 character to level 55 or whatever wouldn't be a huge deal in this regard. If the choice is between sticking with the level 70, making a DK, or just not playing, then anything that keeps them playing is good for the server population, and nothing has an impact on new leveling players.

As for questing...

Questing is my other big issue with WoW. I hate questing. I wish I could level just as fast going around exploring areas and doing instance runs. I hate the fact that I am compelled to do all these inane tasks simply to get experience as fast as everyone else. Quests are for the most part just as boring to me as grinding, but with the added restriction that I cannot just do them anywhere like I could with grinding.

I would much rather do instances, however that's what I did the first time I leveled with my Warlock and when counting Heroics too I've done every outland sinstance many many times. The fact that they are on the whole pretty boring just makes it worse. And to top it off it is actualy reasonably annoying to get a group for them, there just aren't that many people playing the game.

If they retuned the 60-70 leveling like they did for the rest of the game I couldn probably suck it up and just quest through to 70, but as it currently is I just can't; I have better things to do with my time that I enjoy more.

Have you played both factions?

Also, if you have never played a hunter before I would highly recommend it. There are quests & mobs hunters can do at levels that other classes can't. Kinda spices things up taking down red bosses (or what used to be elites I guess). Pally and Priest are kinda painful for leveling.

Are you grinding or questing? If you enjoy questing mainly, find and download either Joanna's (Horde) or Brian Kopp's (Ally) leveling guides. They aren't perfect, but I find it fun nowadays to try and level a toon in the most efficient way possible and these guides help. There are also mods which do the same thing.

If your tired of the solo scene, keep an eye on the guild recruitment forums for re-roll guilds. You can meet new folks while leveling up a new toon. If it doesn't work out with the new guild then you can just transfer the toon to your other server or join a different guild.

I have never played an Alliance character above level 12. This is probably my third big issue (behing levels and quests) with the game; forced faction seperation. I know there is a whole lot of stuff Alliance-side that I haven't seen, and I know it would be interesting. But I would not be able to comminicate with the people I know who play this game and I would still be repeating most of the content generally speaking. I cannot justify that time commitment, as much as I would like to, just to see the same things from the other side. I don't play WoW as a single player RPG, if I want to play a single player RPG I'll play a good one where the story, quests, and leveling curse is more fun and natural, I'm not going to play WoW for that. And because the people I know play horde, and the people I plan to do stuff at level cap are hordeside, and because the only real advantages from playing Allicance are seeing some newbie areas and different towns, I just can't do it. I tried a number fo times but I have never gotten out of the starting-ish areas.

Warlock is probably even more powerful that Hunter for a lot of things. I've done most of the quests in the game I'd guess. Pally is not that hard to level at all either. It's once you hit about level 55 that it gets annoying, but up to then it's a breeze. Leveling as Ret you can solo fine, can tank dps or heal for groups, which makes getting one much easier, and the itemisation is pretty decent these days. Once you hit 60 it becomes a joke though, the problems of the class start to show up and leveling slows right down. I'm still pretty useful in instances, tanked and healed Ramps in two different groups, but other things are meh.

I tried looking at a quest guide at once point. I had to stop though. It's not fun for me when I'm reading what someone else tells me to do and then doing it. I play the game to play it myself, not follow guides. I would rather not play than do that. Or buy a character or pay to get it leveled. None of those options are attractive to me.

[Fabricated]

I recommend goofing around with classes you haven't played until you find one you like. If you find you like a class enough to level, just play to 68-70 and then cancel your sub until WotLK drops. You'll have a class you like and just roll on into Northrend to snap up some Kara-level greens and experience fresh content.

[lamaros]

I recommend goofing around with classes you haven't played until you find one you like. If you find you like a class enough to level, just play to 68-70 and then cancel your sub until WotLK drops. You'll have a class you like and just roll on into Northrend to snap up some Kara-level greens and experience fresh content.

I plan to play a DK. I know I'll like it. :) But unfortunatly I don't have the option to level it before the expansion. The Paladin is also fun, but the leveling to 70 is less fun than the idea of having one at 70 for the reasons stated above, so it won't be happening. The issue is the getting to 70 being so repetitive and boring, not the inability to get there quickly if I really wanted to.

[Fabricated]

I recommend goofing around with classes you haven't played until you find one you like. If you find you like a class enough to level, just play to 68-70 and then cancel your sub until WotLK drops. You'll have a class you like and just roll on into Northrend to snap up some Kara-level greens and experience fresh content.

I plan to play a DK. I know I'll like it. :) But unfortunatly I don't have the option to level it before the expansion. The Paladin is also fun, but the leveling to 70 is less fun than the idea of having one at 70 for the reasons stated above, so it won't be happening. The issue is the getting to 70 being so repetitive and boring, not the inability to get there quickly if I really wanted to.

DK's look like they're going to be pretty powerful so instancing/grinding/questing to 70 probably won't be too bad. Go whatever their tank tree is and I imagine you'll be popular.

[Dren]

If you have the option to turn a level 70 into a level 55 you're not actually impacting on this, because if you're playing the level 70 otherwise.
Some servers are pretty empty when leveling anyway, and the gmae is very solo friendly while leveling.

So overall, letting players convert a level 70 character to level 55 or whatever wouldn't be a huge deal in this regard. If the choice is between sticking with the level 70, making a DK, or just not playing, then anything that keeps them playing is good for the server population, and nothing has an impact on new leveling players.

AFAIK, you don't "turn" your level 70 into a DK.  You just get to create a new DK in its own special slot on each server that you have at least one level 70.

As to why this couldn't be done for all classes, I can't answer.  On the surface, I don't think it would be all bad.  The drawback would be all the rep., items, etc. that you would not have by bypassing everything to 55.  These days though, the rep doesn't matter much and gold is extremely easy to come by especially since you would already have a level 70 on that server (the prereq for going the lvl 55 alt route.)  You could semi-twink a character with 100 gold or less easily. (2-5 gold per item for sub-optimal gear, but enough to level with no problem.)

[Merusk]

If you have the option to turn a level 70 into a level 55 you're not actually impacting on this, because if you're playing the level 70 otherwise.
Some servers are pretty empty when leveling anyway, and the gmae is very solo friendly while leveling.

So overall, letting players convert a level 70 character to level 55 or whatever wouldn't be a huge deal in this regard. If the choice is between sticking with the level 70, making a DK, or just not playing, then anything that keeps them playing is good for the server population, and nothing has an impact on new leveling players.

AFAIK, you don't "turn" your level 70 into a DK.  You just get to create a new DK in its own special slot on each server that you have at least one level 70.

You're close but don't quite have it.  The only bit you missed was that you can roll a DK of any faction on ANY server if you have a level 70 ANYWHERE. They clarified this a few weeks ago, and I'd link to it if I could hit their site at work.

I look forward to all the level 80s ganking the fuck out of newbie DKs who thought they could reroll and be johnny badass on all the PVP realms.

[Xanthippe]

60-70 isn't too bad IMO as long as you can grit your teeth through whatever zone you hate (and everyone has one).

Unfortunately I hate Hellfire Peninsula and only managed to get to 62 from 60 before the quests were up and I hated most of it (fucking giant elite 70 and nasty hogs that aggro forever).  Not even sure where to go from there as if it is more of HF Peninsula style zones, I am going to HATE it.  Everyone calls me a n00b for riding a standard L40 mount =P

Part of your problem is the standard mount.  Epic ground mounts are kind of necessary to outrun the crap that aggros.

I am not fond of Hellfire, but I enjoy Zangarmarsh (although yes, I also grow tired of blue before I'm done).  Next is Terrokkar, which you can do in conjunction, or after Zangar.  Then Nagrand - my favorite WoW zone of all.  I think it's just beautiful, in a Fantasia sort of way.

Blades Edge isn't bad.  Shadowmoon Valley - hate it, but not as much as Netherstorm.  Neither of those are bad with a flying mount, but I don't like the constant tilt of the horizon.

[Nebu]

I am not fond of Hellfire, but I enjoy Zangarmarsh (although yes, I also grow tired of blue before I'm done).  Next is Terrokkar, which you can do in conjunction, or after Zangar.  Then Nagrand - my favorite WoW zone of all.  I think it's just beautiful, in a Fantasia sort of way.

Were it not for Nagrand, I'd have never gotten to 70 with any of my toons.  SMV and Nether make me cry.  I avoid them as much as possible until I have a flier.

[Fabricated]

I am not fond of Hellfire, but I enjoy Zangarmarsh (although yes, I also grow tired of blue before I'm done).  Next is Terrokkar, which you can do in conjunction, or after Zangar.  Then Nagrand - my favorite WoW zone of all.  I think it's just beautiful, in a Fantasia sort of way.

Were it not for Nagrand, I'd have never gotten to 70 with any of my toons.  SMV and Nether make me cry.  I avoid them as much as possible until I have a flier.

SMV and Netherstorm suck ass without a flying mount and are good zones if you have one. Both have great quest rewards, with Netherstorm being the better of the 2 IMO since most of the best rewards in SMV are connected to retardedly long chain-quests you're not gonna find ANYONE doing outside of the Netherwing startup and the Teron Gorefiend set.

[Morfiend]

If you have the option to turn a level 70 into a level 55 you're not actually impacting on this, because if you're playing the level 70 otherwise.
Some servers are pretty empty when leveling anyway, and the gmae is very solo friendly while leveling.

So overall, letting players convert a level 70 character to level 55 or whatever wouldn't be a huge deal in this regard. If the choice is between sticking with the level 70, making a DK, or just not playing, then anything that keeps them playing is good for the server population, and nothing has an impact on new leveling players.

AFAIK, you don't "turn" your level 70 into a DK.  You just get to create a new DK in its own special slot on each server that you have at least one level 70.

You're close but don't quite have it.  The only bit you missed was that you can roll a DK of any faction on ANY server if you have a level 70 ANYWHERE. They clarified this a few weeks ago, and I'd link to it if I could hit their site at work.

I look forward to all the level 80s ganking the fuck out of newbie DKs who thought they could reroll and be johnny badass on all the PVP realms.

You also missed one bit. It was announced that you dont need a level 70 now, only a level 55.

[lamaros]

Hopefully someone found that info useful, I already knew all that. I was just suggesting they could use one of the many proposed options for other classes too.

It's very tempting to make an Ally DK because of it, however that would mean I don't have access to the 8k gold I have saved up hordeside.

[Merusk]

You also missed one bit. It was announced that you dont need a level 70 now, only a level 55.

Wow, yeah I didn't hear that.  That's good to know, it gives folks who gave BC a pass reason to check out LK.

[Dren]

You also missed one bit. It was announced that you dont need a level 70 now, only a level 55.

Wow, yeah I didn't hear that.  That's good to know, it gives folks who gave BC a pass reason to check out LK.

Great information.  Thanks.  It sure has changed a lot since the first announcement.

[lamaros]

60-70 significantly lowered in the Beta. Will remain to some degree in WotLK.

Good stuff!

[K9]

Looks to be around 200K less xp needed from 60-61. So that's a 40% reduction.