Whats a really good AGP video card?

[Mrbloodworth]

Looking for a high end AGP card for an older computer.. Something better than Radeon 9700 pro with 128mb on it.

Thanks ahead of time.

[Viin]

AGP? What is that?

[ahoythematey]

If you have enough wattage from the PSU for it, a geforce 6800gt is pretty awesome for the price.

[Murgos]

ATI are the only ones really supporting AGP anymore.  That said, you can get their HD 3850 for AGP for 250ish.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161226

Or the 2600XT for a buck and a quarter.

[Trippy]

Something like this should work if you didn't want to spend as much as that ATI:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

[Lantyssa]

Something like this should work if you didn't want to spend as much as that ATI:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

I don't remember if it was an EVGA brand, but that's the card I got last year for my old system and it was pretty good.

[Morat20]

Something like this should work if you didn't want to spend as much as that ATI:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

I'm buying that today -- well, the PNY version of it. PNY - Verto GeForce 7600 GS Graphics Card.

I was about to start a thread in this very forum about it to make sure it was worth 170 bucks. I didn't really want that big an upgrade (I have a 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro), but with only an AGP slot and only 305W power supply (fucking dell) I didn't really have a lot of choice. I could swap out the Radeon for the GeForce equivilant (side-grade for 100 bucks) or do a moderate upgrade (required a 350W supply) and end up paying just as much when you add in a new power supply.

My real concern is heat, since that model Dell is the one with the passive cooling. It's not really the best case. I also shelled out for another gig of RAM (to bring me up to 2 gigs) but that won't arrive for a few days.

Not sure it's worth 170, since I'd buy it at the local Best Buy (I'm too lazy to wait on shipping). Any thoughts?

[Ironwood]

Currently running the GeForce 7800 GS.  At the time it was billed as the fastest AGP card around and, to be fair, I think they then stopped making them.

But I haven't checked in a while.

[Morat20]

Currently running the GeForce 7800 GS.  At the time it was billed as the fastest AGP card around and, to be fair, I think they then stopped making them.

But I haven't checked in a while.

You get a lot of heat off that thing? My case's heat dissipation isn't the best. I was under the impression that the dual-chip ones like the GeForce 7k series ran cooler than single chip ones, but I might be totally wrong there.

Edited to add: Ha! Turns out Dell is an idiot on their power supply labels. They label median output, not peak load. So their 250W is everyone else's 350, their 305 is everyone else's 400. Also checked a number of people who did the identical card upgrade on the same system with no problems. So hopefully I'll snag the new card on the way home.

Also threw in two gigs of RAM  -- meant to just get one gig, accidentally ordered a single stick (need matched pairs) argued with customer service when I realized it (too late to cancel) and just said "Fuck it" and ordered another gig stick. So my 3.0GHz P4 is going to 3 gigs of RAM and from a 128MB card to a 512MB card. I won't see all the shiny (AGP card and the single-core is another minor bottleneck), but I ought to see better performance and get another year or two out of the system for less about 350 bucks.

Could be worse.

[Mrbloodworth]

Heres the thing,

I was looking at the AGP's on Newegg, and had seen the ones you guys recommended. Problem is, i really do not know what any of the numbers mean anymore (besides ram), and if any of them are any form of equivalent to PCI-E.

I am hoping to spruce up my older , but still good AGP computer.

Its a:

P4 3.06 hyper threaded
2 gigs (i need to look up the type, its about 6-8 years old)
and a Radion 9700pro with 128 on it.

I AM shooting to get it to run Age of Conan so my girlfriend can play. I am targeting the Video card, as i think its really the only thing i may be able to upgrade at this point.

Did i mention its a dell? 

So, i am looking for "Bang for buck" suggestions, i know i can't change the motherboard, and quite possibly the ram is too old to buy or the slots won't take anything else. If more accurate Specs are required, i will be digging out the old order form soon.

Thanks to all who suggested, and all who will.

[Morat20]

Heres the thing,

I was looking at the AGP's on Newegg, and had seen the ones you guys recommended. Problem is, i really do not know what any of the numbers mean anymore (besides ram), and if any of them are any form of equivalent to PCI-E.

As best I understand, the real difference between AGP and PCI-E is bandwitdh. PCI-E shoves more data across at once, so -- the even more can be offloaded onto the GPU without increasing any sort of internal latency.

From what I've read, jumping from a 128 to a 512 will see a significant improvement. However, it wouldn't be nearly what you'd see if you went from a 128 AGP to a 512 PCI-E. AGP to AGP you're seeing strictly card improvement (more RAM, the GPU handling more calcs, the GPU taking more off the CPU's load, etc). AGP to PCI-E you're seeing both card improvement AND a big jump in effective speed.

I'm making the exact same upgrade (and adding RAM), so I'll be happy to let you know how it works. I don't know Age of Conan's specs. :)

[cmlancas]

Last time I was pricing AGP cards, I noticed it was less expensive for me to pull out my motherboard and upgrade to a PCI-E board than to pay the markup on AGP cards.

That was in uh, late 2006 though, I think.

Is that an option, MBW?

[Morat20]

Last time I was pricing AGP cards, I noticed it was less expensive for me to pull out my motherboard and upgrade to a PCI-E board than to pay the markup on AGP cards.

That was in uh, late 2006 though, I think.

Is that an option, MBW?

The AGP cards suggested here range from about 100 to 180. I can't see that being more expensive than a new motherboard + PCI-E card.

[Salamok]

Last time I was pricing AGP cards, I noticed it was less expensive for me to pull out my motherboard and upgrade to a PCI-E board than to pay the markup on AGP cards.

That was in uh, late 2006 though, I think.

Is that an option, MBW?

The AGP cards suggested here range from about 100 to 180. I can't see that being more expensive than a new motherboard + PCI-E card.

A few older AGP cards peaked right before they released the GeForce 7800 GS and ATI 1300/1600/1800 series that supported AGP.  Prior to that there was like a 3 year period where the best AGP card money could buy was the radeon 800/850 series.  Prices on the higher end versions of that  shot up over $300. 


Either way you aren't looking at a cheap upgrade to go from an AGP based system to PCI-E.  It's pretty much gutting your entire system (MB, RAM, Video Card, CPU at the very least).

Anyhoo, pushing 1 of the newer AGP cards on a stock dell power supply is gonna be dicey so good luck with that.

[Morat20]

Anyhoo, pushing 1 of the newer AGP cards on a stock dell power supply is gonna be dicey so good luck with that.

Nah. Several people have managed it quite successfully, and Dell's power supply numbers are...well, wrong. Their 250W is really a 350, and their 305 is a 400. They just rate them by average use not peak, and video cards "need XXX Watt power supply" are for peak demand on startup.

So I'm running basically a 400Watt system -- 1 hard drive, 3 gigs of Ram, a CD burner, a DVD/CD burner, a single floppy, and the usual mouse/keyboard/monitor mess. The card I'm picking up requires 300. I've got plenty of power.

[Trippy]

Something like this should work if you didn't want to spend as much as that ATI:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

I'm buying that today -- well, the PNY version of it. PNY - Verto GeForce 7600 GS Graphics Card.

The GS is slower than the GT -- the GS has half the memory bandwidth of the GT and a slower core clock speed.

[Trippy]

Heres the thing,

I was looking at the AGP's on Newegg, and had seen the ones you guys recommended. Problem is, i really do not know what any of the numbers mean anymore (besides ram), and if any of them are any form of equivalent to PCI-E.

As best I understand, the real difference between AGP and PCI-E is bandwitdh. PCI-E shoves more data across at once, so -- the even more can be offloaded onto the GPU without increasing any sort of internal latency.

From what I've read, jumping from a 128 to a 512 will see a significant improvement. However, it wouldn't be nearly what you'd see if you went from a 128 AGP to a 512 PCI-E. AGP to AGP you're seeing strictly card improvement (more RAM, the GPU handling more calcs, the GPU taking more off the CPU's load, etc). AGP to PCI-E you're seeing both card improvement AND a big jump in effective speed.

I'm making the exact same upgrade (and adding RAM), so I'll be happy to let you know how it works. I don't know Age of Conan's specs. :)

The extra bandwidth you get from PCI-e x16 compared to AGP x8 is not as significant as the fact that the higher-end GPUs are only available on PCI-e. To put it another way an AGP x8 version of an older mid-range GPU should give nearly identical performance to the PCI-e x16 version despite the fact that PCI-e x16 offers twice the maximum bandwidth. Even with a top-end GPU (which aren't available in AGP versions) the performance difference between running it in a PCI-e x8 slot vs. a PCI-e x16 slot is small as you can see here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-meets-pci-express,1761-3.html

[Morat20]

The GS is slower than the GT -- the GS has half the memory bandwidth of the GT and a slower core clock speed.

I got a different card anyways, and I'm not happy with it. Some testing indicated my old radeon is better. I'm going to have to return it tomorrow. UGH. The GT looks like my best choice, it appears.

Found an EVGA video card for 85, so once I return this -- should be golden. :)

[Trippy]

Did i mention its a dell? 

So, i am looking for "Bang for buck" suggestions, i know i can't change the motherboard, and quite possibly the ram is too old to buy or the slots won't take anything else. If more accurate Specs are required, i will be digging out the old order form soon.

Thanks to all who suggested, and all who will.

How big is the power supply?

[Morat20]

How big is the power supply?

Either 350 or 400W by normal parlance. I think the latter, but hell if I know. I'm holding off on the graphics card for now. My best bet looks to be the 7600GT, which improves everything across the board by about a third. Most everything else is a wash or an actual downgrade -- I'm a bit surprised by that, actually.

I'm going to slot the two gigs of RAM when they arrive (moving me from 1 to 3) and see how that affects things. I'll probably move to the 7600GT next month. RAM + Card is a bit more than i wanted to spend at one time.

[Mrbloodworth]

Did i mention its a dell? 

So, i am looking for "Bang for buck" suggestions, i know i can't change the motherboard, and quite possibly the ram is too old to buy or the slots won't take anything else. If more accurate Specs are required, i will be digging out the old order form soon.

Thanks to all who suggested, and all who will.

How big is the power supply?

I will have to open it up and look. Ill post it soon. The comp was top-of-the-line when i bought it (8 years ago)...so it may have more than "standard". But i really do not know.

[Salamok]

Heres the thing,

I was looking at the AGP's on Newegg, and had seen the ones you guys recommended. Problem is, i really do not know what any of the numbers mean anymore (besides ram), and if any of them are any form of equivalent to PCI-E.

As best I understand, the real difference between AGP and PCI-E is bandwitdh. PCI-E shoves more data across at once, so -- the even more can be offloaded onto the GPU without increasing any sort of internal latency.

From what I've read, jumping from a 128 to a 512 will see a significant improvement. However, it wouldn't be nearly what you'd see if you went from a 128 AGP to a 512 PCI-E. AGP to AGP you're seeing strictly card improvement (more RAM, the GPU handling more calcs, the GPU taking more off the CPU's load, etc). AGP to PCI-E you're seeing both card improvement AND a big jump in effective speed.

I'm making the exact same upgrade (and adding RAM), so I'll be happy to let you know how it works. I don't know Age of Conan's specs. :)

The extra bandwidth you get from PCI-e x16 compared to AGP x8 is not as significant as the fact that the higher-end GPUs are only available on PCI-e. To put it another way an AGP x8 version of an older mid-range GPU should give nearly identical performance to the PCI-e x16 version despite the fact that PCI-e x16 offers twice the maximum bandwidth. Even with a top-end GPU (which aren't available in AGP versions) the performance difference between running it in a PCI-e x8 slot vs. a PCI-e x16 slot is small as you can see here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-meets-pci-express,1761-3.html

The main performance hit from the 7800GS vs the 7800GT was more of an intentional cockblock by nVidia than anything else, if memory serves me correctly they limited the number of pipes on the GS cards for no other reason than to degrade performance (most likely to encourage more upgrades). 

edit: in other words a bottleneck of greater proportions was placed on the card itself making the BUS bandwidth a total nonfactor in performance (for this particular card anyway).  No doubt AGP was forced to die an early death by the industry though.

[Morat20]

The main performance hit from the 7800GS vs the 7800GT was more of an intentional cockblock by nVidia than anything else, if memory serves me correctly they limited the number of pipes on the GS cards for no other reason than to degrade performance (most likely to encourage more upgrades). 

edit: in other words a bottleneck of greater proportions was placed on the card itself making the BUS bandwidth a total nonfactor in performance (for this particular card anyway).  No doubt AGP was forced to die an early death by the industry though.

Amazon has the card I want (nvidia 7600GT for AGP) by a company called EVGA for less than a hundred -- never had a card by them. Anyone know anything about them?

[Murgos]

I just bought an EVGA, seems excellent.

[schild]

EVGA is fine.