PvP flag idea

[tazelbain]

Everybody has a state: PvP+, PvP-, or PvP.  Players can flip between them no restrictions. PvP+ and PvP can fight each other without restriction. PvP- can only attack or be attacked by others in red zones.

Every area has a state: red,yellow,green.  Areas are the natural green state.  When a PvP+ enters an area it becomes yellow and timer starts.    After that timer ends, if there is still a PvP+ in the area, the area goes red.  Area will revert back to green once all the PvP+ leave and another timer expires.  Everybody has a widget which displays the area status and timers.  Everybody has a map of area status in the region.

So, the purpose is so the players can fight anywhere but no one can be ganked.  Carebears can inhabit the world without be perpetual victims.

[Trippy]

Why would you ever want to be PvP (no + or -)?

Carebears can inhabit the world without be perpetual victims.

No that's not true. All zones would be perpetually red, just because.

[tazelbain]

Because you are xping/crafting/hanging out, but if the zone goes yellow you want to fight the enemy and not wait for the timer, and you don't want to turn the area red and have your team's PvP- flee.  I figure this state hardcore pvpers would be in while on their home territory.  It's to their advantage to use the color system as warning on their home turf.

If you kept timers short and the areas small, most of the world stay green.  Again, it is in their interest to keep your team's areas green and there could be economic incentives to keep your area green.  At the very least, if your PvP- have to flee good areas, they don't have as much to contribute back to the team.  But some high traffic areas will stay red unless someone kicks all the PvP+ out.

[Trippy]

Because you are xping/crafting/hanging out, but if the zone goes yellow you want to fight the enemy and not want for the timer, and you don't and don't want to turn the area red and have your team's PvP- flee.  I figure this state hardcore pvp would be while in their home territory.  Its to their advantage to use the color system as warning on their home turf.

Okay that makes sense.

If you kept timers short and the areas small, most of the world stay green.  Again their is insentive to keep your teams areas green and there could be economic incentives to keep your area green.  At the very least if you PvP- have to flee good areas, they don't have as much to contribute back to the team.  But some high traffic areas will stay red unless someone kicks all the PvP+ out.

The problem is it only takes one PvP+ to start the timer even though there could be lots of PvP- people in it at the time. As we've learned from other PvP games, the hardcore PKers and PvPers are always more organized and determined than the "casual" PvPers and Carebears. So unless there are a bazillion different areas it'll only take a small number of skilled PvP+ players to activate the timers in all the zones. As we've also learned from games like UO the "defenders" aka the anti-PKers are not as organized as the PKers even if potentially there are a lot more of them which means a single experienced PvP+ has a good chance of turning an area Red all by him or herself and a small group of them working together is almost a guarenteed success.

It would be better if the number of PvP+ needed to start the timer was a function of the total number of PvP and PvP- people in the area. That'll give Carebears that congregate in particular areas a form of programmatic "safety in numbers" protection.

[Kail]

I don't see this as being great for carebears.  If I'm playing as a PvP- character, and a PvP+ character comes into my area, my options are to either 1-fight him, or 2-run.  Those are the same options you'd get if you saw an enemy on almost any other PvP game, the only difference is that you can "see him coming" from farther away with your system. 

It could work nicely in a game like EVE or something, where you've got player controlled spaces to defend, though.  It could be a handy way of establishing battle lines and things.  But the carebears who don't like PvP are still going to feel dependant on/harassed by the PvP players, I think.  They just want to chop their lumber in peace; having to constantly keep one eye on the Terror Alert Level isn't going to give them the sense of security they're after.

[pxib]

Back in the 1980's and 90's Knotts' Berry Farm, a lesser known amusement park in Southern California, didn't have communication between security its different themed areas. Hooligans would screw around in Fiest Village until they got too much "heat" and then simply move to Ghost Town for an aggro reset.

A PvP guild could red flag every area in the territory with one PVP+ apiece. Those individuals don't even need to attack, they can just come in and grind or harvest or hide in a closet and hump a tradeskill. Heck, they could just sit around chatting on guild chat. The whole map would be red and single evasive individuals are causing it... the PVP defensive players go on high alert and start scouting. They don't know where the main force is and they have to coordinate across the entire map in order to keep track of who's scouting where. A gank squad or two can then cheerfully stroll between areas finding the PVP- folks who wanted to have their peaceful fun and slaughter them with impunity, sliding to a new area whenever necessary to keep "security" off their tail. If the spy who's holding an area yellow gets killed or logs off, somebody can replace him.

With less effort than raiding requires, one medium-sized guild could turn the whole game PVP+ every night of the week.

Even if the PVP defenders were just as organized and had a single channel to communicate in, they'd be chasing ghosts... and the PVP- people would be wondering why they're playing a PVP+ game.

[sinij]

First, why are you even talking about PvP in PvE game? You ether do PvP game and there are no carebears or you clone DIKU and PvP will be an afterthought tucked away in some instance with no bearing on the rest of the game. PvE and PvP don't mix well, so trying to is futile and counterproductive.

With that said, you are better off by letting players do what they like. Give PvPers some PvP objective to turn zone red and give PvErs some PvE objective to keep zone green. This way zone changes hands only if PvPers outkill each other more so than PvErs can outgrind each other.

Even better - you simply have game PvP where zone, once controlled by some faction, has to be attacked in certain(siege for example) way to be able to PK faction's members.

[tazelbain]

I have been think about this for a while and I have come to the conclusion that any safety switch that relies on the aggressors to trigger it is doomed.  It would be much better for defenders to control it.  First with a territory system determine who owns any piece of land. And then with an infrastructure system that determines how developed a piece of land is.  So for any given nation the least developed areas would be pvp+ and the most developed areas pvp-.

It be a mini game for nation to expand their borders and set up nice safe areas for the for the carebears (and reap the economic rewards). Carebears get a safe to play and get to be apart of the big warring nations.  It be a zero sum game, so only a set percentage of territory can be pvp-.  To destroy an enemy nation you'd have to take over their pvp+ areas to open more of their territory to pvp+ until they had no more territory. But carebears would have plenty of warning when zones flip so they can retreat to another pvp-.