Recommendations on Windows Mobile Devices?

[Baldrake]

People around here seem to know their technology. Or at least, have strong opinions about their technology. ;)

I've been looking at getting a Windows Mobile PDA or smartphone to replace my TREO 650 (which is broken and apparently more expensive to repair than to replace -- don't get me started...) My must-have features are large display, QWERTY keyboard, Wi-Fi and high usability in the PIM apps. Nice to have but not deal-breakers would be GPS and 3G support. I've really enjoyed the 650's phone+PDA in a single unit, but have read that the Windows Mobile smartphones aren't quite there yet - either poor usability, or apps that don't work well with the smaller smartphone display.

This is not for games - my main needs are phone+PDA, but I also plan to do some Windows Mobile development with it (hence some of the requirements above.)

Anyone have any recommendations?

[Viin]

Do you care what carrier?

Personally, I'm getting the Cingular 8525 - Wifi, Bluetooth, 3G network for Internet, full keyboard, no GPS but I think you can get a bluetooth GPS for it.

You can get the non-Cingular version but it's really pricey if they aren't knocking the price down for a new 2year contract.

[Raph]

I have a T-Mobile MDA, which is a Cingular 8125 or an HTC Wizard. No inbuilt GPS. It's a quad-band phone. Supports EDGE with the latest firmware. The 8525 looks like a new revision of that hardware.

I recommend checking out the xda-developers site for forums and tons of detail.

[Baldrake]

Very helpful, thanks guys. Yes, the 8525 seems to be the same as the HTC TyTN. I like that it has a higher resolution screen than usual for smartphones, and the sliding keyboard is cool.

Viin, the carrier is an issue. I'm in Canada, and my carrier doesn't stock any of these phones. They're cool about hooking up phones they don't sell to their network, and I'm figuring that I'll be ok for what I want, though - phone service and maybe web browsing. I imagine I'll have trouble with email, but don't do email on PDA's in any case. I have no idea how GPS works, or whether the phone carrier is even involved in that service.

Since I'd probably have to buy one of these sight unseen, I'd appreciate any comments on usability. How easy is it to do the basic day-timer stuff? Is sync'ing straightforward? Is that keyboard actually any good in practice? Can this operate decently as an MP3 player? (My goal truly is to carry only one thing around.)

Any yeah, they're even more expensive than a PS3.

[Viin]

Yep, the HTC TyTN is the same thing but damn pricey. I should be getting the 8525 for about $400 after discount + rebate.

You can probably find a HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125) on Ebay, though I haven't looked at what, if anything, needs to be done to them to run on another network (other than a diff sim card). With the older one you'd lose the 3G connection though.

For the GPS, you just need one of these. You can find cheaper brands than Garmin, the cheapest being about $120. Has nothing to do with the carrier, just what software you are using with that GPS device. (Most folks have that GPS device setup in their car and then do driving direction apps on their PDA).

A friend of mine has an 8125 that he let me play around with, it's pretty darn cool. He uses it all the time for meetings, notes, alarms, etc.

The keyboard is plenty big for typing stuff with your thumbs, or you can use the stylus to do handwriting instead (or the on-screen keyboard seems popular too). It sync's great, after all it is Windows, so anything with Outlook or Office works fine. You can view excel files, word files, pdfs, all that jazz on the device. Email works fine, but it's a pull (ie: go check every 10 mins) not a push unless you are using Windows Exchange Server for an email server (and sys admins turn it on).

Since you'd probably be on a data plan, pulling email every few minutes won't be a big deal unless you pay by the byte.

Works fine for MP3s, I haven't tried streaming audio but I bet with the 3G it'd work - I just donno how long the battery would last always connected to the data network.

[Trippy]

If you have to have Wi-Fi your options will be limited. From reviews that I've read Windows Mobile *still* is not as easy to use as Palm OS but I don't have any experience with a WM phone myself so I couldn't tell you just how bad (or not) they really are.

[Raph]

You can use WiFi on the 8125/MDA. There's a Sprint model as well that I forget the name of. Plus, you can unlock 'em all.

Push email is no big deal, I found. We only recently got an Exchange server going, and the main difference is that my calendar syncs over the air now instead when I plug the device in.

They also have bluetooth, and pairing to a GPS is apparently no huge deal. Never done it myself.

On T-Mob, I got the Internet plan, which gives me unlimited data plus free access at all the T-Mob hotspots, which are all over the place, particularly Starbucks.

As an MP3 player... they come out of the box with WMP. Which is not great on WM5, it sucks battery and you have to leave the screen on, not dimmed. Most people switch to Mortplayer or GSPlayer (I use GSPlayer because it handles streaming audio from the Net). You will need a hefty MiniSD card to store a decent quantity of MP3s. The 2GB ones work fine, some have reported issues with the 4GB cards. You also have to deal with headset issues -- if you want a bluetooth headset, there's gymnastics involved in making it play the music.

Oh -- get Smartskey. You want it, trust me.

I also run MAME and ATari 8 bit emus on it (MULE on my phone ftw). And I use it as an ebook reader -- probably the thing I use it for most after email. Hurray for the Baen Free Library.

One hassle with syncing -- ActiveSync kinda sucks, and you can only pair to two desktops. I have home desktop, laptop, and work, so that was annoying.

I wrote a few blog posts about my experiences with the Wizard:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/04/09/getting-a-new-phone/
http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/04/13/about-that-new-phone/

[Viin]

One hassle with syncing -- ActiveSync kinda sucks, and you can only pair to two desktops. I have home desktop, laptop, and work, so that was annoying.

Don't you use Exchange for your calendar stuff? What else would you need to sync?

[Bunk]

The general word I have heard from both Realtors and the Palm guys at the conventions, is to stay away from the Treos. Way too many durability issues. We don't release our WM product for another month or so, so I haven't really been looking in to them yet.

I notice Telus supports the Moto Q, I don't know a lot about them though.

[Baldrake]

Thanks guys, this has been amazingly helpful. It looks like it's down to the HTC TyTN or the Treo 750. I actually saw a refurbished TyTN on ebay last night for $350, and was really tempted.

The big downside with the Treo is that it doesn't have Wi-Fi, although you can get a card to provide it. And Bunk, your thoughts on the Treo's reliability unfortunately match with my experience.

[Raph]

One hassle with syncing -- ActiveSync kinda sucks, and you can only pair to two desktops. I have home desktop, laptop, and work, so that was annoying.

Don't you use Exchange for your calendar stuff? What else would you need to sync?

I didn't back then, I was between companies, remember? :) We only got an Exchange server a week or so ago. So I was getting email on Outlook and on my phone via POP. Calendar I only had on my local machine, so I would sync to the phone, then sync to the laptop, which would effectively transfer the calendar over (contacts too).

[Cheddar]

I just bought this phone:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=2200

It should be in Monday- I guess I could let you guys know how well it works.  Nice thing is I get broadband access anywhere within Hampton Roads, and also various places throughout Virginia.  Since I spend so much damn time driving/travelling it will be a boon for my internet habit.

[Oban]

Not sure if you are in Toronto or not, but I buy a new unlocked GSM phone (works on Rogers) from these guys every three months.

http://bongowireless.com/

[Baldrake]

http://bongowireless.com/

Ack, $1,000 for a TyTN! 

[Oban]

Negotiate.

I see it for USD719 from a reputable source in the States, so that is about... CAD850.  Now just tack on importation, warranty, yadda yadda...

Never pay list price for grey market goods.