The Armory

[Alkiera]

I am 3 of the 4 Alkiera's.  The 4th is a blood elf pally.  Bloody name thief.  8)  I'm also 3 of the 8 Kelner's.

Altaholic?  Who, me?

--
Alkiera

[lamaros]

I'm the only Ycef.

On the other point. Whether or not Blizzard CAN show this information is not the point. The point is that a lot of people want the option to keep it private, and WoW is still a subscription service, so Blizzard have some good reasons to listen and keep their customers happy.

[Chenghiz]

Double Edit: lol @ 400+ entries for "Legolas", I'm fairly certain this only searchs active accounts.

Yeah I don't see any of my characters from my cancelled accounts on there.

Edit: reworded

It's updated as you log off, so I would imagine that might be why you don't see yourself on there.

[Furiously]

I imagine you will start seeing a lot of people logging off only wearing a dress.

[Numtini]

This looks really nice, I hope they don't pull an SOE and try to nickel and dime for it.

I can't really understand any practical reason why people wouldn't want their characters shown other than lying about spec or equipment. Am I missing something?

[Furiously]

Lying about their spec would be a huge one I would think.

"Group looking for Protection warrior."

Random fury warrior with 5 points in protection says "Prot war here!"

[Righ]

How can there be 400 Legolases (Legolii?).  100 servers = 100 unique names

How did you come up with 100 servers? There are currently 222 servers in the North America / Oceanic region.

[Jayce]

I can't really understand any practical reason why people wouldn't want their characters shown other than lying about spec or equipment. Am I missing something?

In PvP, there is a certain value in knowing someone's exact spec.  But WoW PvP is so consequence-free, I think only the drama queens should really care that much.

[Alkiera]

I can't really understand any practical reason why people wouldn't want their characters shown other than lying about spec or equipment. Am I missing something?

In PvP, there is a certain value in knowing someone's exact spec.  But WoW PvP is so consequence-free, I think only the drama queens should really care that much.

Yeah, but in things like the arena, being about to pull that up beforehand might help.  Or if you keep running into the same guy while hunting/questing in a contested area.  I can kinda see a desire for some secrecy... but on the other hand, after the first fight or two you can probably tell what their spec is anyway.

I'd guess most of the complaining is the e-peen crowd who doesn't want their actual size posted on the web.

--
Alkiera

[Righ]

Makes for some entertaining new wastes of time too - the latest nerf post:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79166617&sid=1

With Armory available, we can begin to look objectively at PvP class balance. Using a computer program, I've calculated the number of players of each class on Arena top-20 2v2 teams. (There are 14 battlegroups, so there are 280 total top-20 teams.)

Druid: 44
Hunter: 47
Mage: 115
Paladin: 106
Priest: 145
Rogue: 123
Shaman: 42
Warlock: 116
Warrior: 85

However, this is not a good guide to balance because some classes are played more than others. To compensate for this, I divided by the fraction of the level 70 population of each class (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=70&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=-1) then normalized the data so the average was 100.

This gives us the CPI2 (Class Power Index (2v2)):
Druid: 52
Hunter: 46
Mage: 90
Paladin: 178
Priest: 142
Rogue: 120
Shaman: 82
Warlock: 124
Warrior: 67

A higher CPI2 means the class is more powerful in 2v2 PvP.

Here's the CPI3 (the same thing, but for 3v3 PvP):
Druid: 61
Hunter: 58
Mage: 87
Paladin: 164
Priest: 129
Rogue: 103
Shaman: 115
Warlock: 99
Warrior: 84

CPI5 (5v5 PvP):
Druid: 69
Hunter: 72
Mage: 81
Paladin: 190
Priest: 105
Rogue: 81
Shaman: 144
Warlock: 70
Warrior: 89


Finally, I combined the three indices using Blizzard's own weightings (5v5=100%, 3v3=80%, 2v2=60%).

Composite Class Power Index:
Druid: 62
Hunter: 61
Mage: 85
Paladin: 178
Priest: 122
Rogue: 98
Shaman: 119
Warlock: 93
Warrior: 82

Higher numbers mean more powerful in the Arena metagame.

[Morat20]

Notice Hunter right the fuck there at the bottom? Makes me giggle at all the "NERF HUNTER!" shit from patch 2.0. Every hunter and their mom looked at the 61-70 gear and realized it was fucking downhill from there. (Ironically, overpowered 60 hunters will never be a problem again -- you'd need the 60 PvP set or T1/T2 gear -- not worth getting with the TBC shit right there...)

Maybe we can get a boost, once they've beaten pallies into bloody submission. (I feel sorry for the poor paladins. Anyone who managed to level one of those fuckers deserves the power. I gave up on mine at level 20.

Surprised to see Druids so low -- I suspect that's a function of their relative popularity. Until 2.0, there weren't a lot druids. Seeing hunters -- one of the most popular classes, prior to TBC -- rated lower than druids after weighting for class population is pretty staggering.

[Righ]

It doesn't actually tell you about their relative worth in PvP directly, but it gives you an idea of their perceived value. Nobody is looking for hunters for (the better) PvP groups, which is somewhat sad, since they sure as hell aren't looking for them for PvE groups either. Although hunters still have useful ranged DPS, it isn't chart topping, and it certainly isn't bursty any more. Their DPS now functions to a very high degree from cast shots, requiring them to stand still, making the dead zone pretty crippling. Running around and firing off weak arcane shots against opponents with huge health pools makes them little more than an annoyance. Its easier to go greater damage while kiting as a mage or warlock. The very high number of hunters, the ease of leveling them without using any of their skills and the comparitive complexity of the class makes it highly likely that any given hunter will be a dribbling idiot unable to properly function.

I'm not sure why druids are so far down the list - they are another comparitively complex class, and one that's had a reasonable population surge (presumably of mostly dribbling idiots who solo feral to 70) due to the perception of  thembeing overpowered. However, they're much more functionally useful in PvP. They may not be as hard to kill while they are healing as a paladin healer is, do the damage of a rogue, but they are very adpatable and can be pretty annoying to kill if they're being played well. Also, having the ability to shape change out of most forms of CC makes them difficult to handle. Must be the dribbling idiot thing. And the fact that most of them are elves.

[Alkiera]

The stats do have some issues, in that many people seem to disagree with the weighting by world poplation ratios.  In that paladins are only recently available to the horde, so their are relatively few lvl 70's, but most of the horde Arena teams contain one.  That artificially inflates their indexed scores.  Whereas the reverse is true for, say, hunters.  Yes, there are fewer of them in arena teams (dead zone and LoS issues in arenas were both brought up), but there are zillions of them at lvl 70, because they are a very popular PvE class.

That of the top few classes scored by this, the #1 and #3 are classes that only recently became available to both sides, and the #2 class is one that people claim are very hard to find in general. (tho the numbers I pulled don't reflect that about the priest, which is an interesting psych/sociology thing)

So I dropped his data into excel, and derived the class population factors he was using, and unapplied them to the final results.  It was.. interesting.

Code:

                    CCPI w/o world
CLASS     CCPI      lvl 70 class ratio
Druid:      62         52
Hunter:     61         62
Mage:       85        109
Paladin:   178        106
Priest:    122        125
Rogue:      98        100
Shaman:    119         61
Warlock:    93         87
Warrior:    82        104

I think that last column is a more realistic index.  It shows the importance of healing in GvG PvP, without artificially inflating the numbers for pally/shaman.  Ironically, druids went even lower... I think there must be fewer lvl 70 druids than people seem to think, or so the population factor seems to bear out.  Also, in GvG, their versatility is perhaps not perceived as important when compared to their 'not as good as the class they resemble' effect.  Specialization 4tw, or something.

--
Alkiera

[Triforcer]

Something I've always wondered about arenas...are there any sort of anti-stealth precautions?  Rogue/druid v. Rogue/druid teams could get pretty boring if everyone is invisible and circle strafing to find others.  And if there are measures, it seems that would really really gimp rogues and ferals as that opener is a big part of their arsenal. 

[MrHat]

I think I read that after a certain amount of time, a perception buff spawns that lets you see invis.

[Hoax]

I'll share here, what I've seen and heard about the top tier pvp (5v5 arena) I also did some research on the forums and on armory the other night so I'm fairly confident in this.  There are basically 4 tiers of 5v5 arena classes.

1st Tier:
Warrior and Pally.

Both of these are on average in every single top group.  Pally is obvious, plate, heals, bubble = 4tw.  Warriors despite many telling me how their gear was weak compared to pre-TBC still are great for damage, also mortal strike is crucial.

2nd Tier:
Mage and Priest.

These are in almost every group, but there are combinations running pally/druid, dual pally or pally/shaman.  Also while dual mage has been showing up sometimes they get dropped by a few teams who are running a class from the next tier instead.  If I was currently playing 5v5 arena I'd plan to face mage/priest/pally/warrior +1 as a general rule of thumb hands down.  It'll be interesting to see what happens after the priest nerfs (which priests I know say are a big pvp deal) but right now they still get lots of pvp love.  Mages have two ice blocks and the best burst dps in the game to thank for their popularity.

3rd Tier:
Shaman, Hunter, Rogue.

Shaman are way more popular then Druids, Hunter and Rogues are interchangeable and in many lineups I saw on armory they are interchanged judging from the numbers.  Not a single group I looked at (most top 5 teams) ran two of any of these classes.  Many of them were not a-team members.

4th Tier:

Warlocks and Druids get about half the love of 3rd tier classes.  Warlocks swear it is because they are always primed and can't survive.  The irony that the two imba classes in everyone's mind dont fit into the early 5v5 metagame is sort of fun.  I'm sort of surprised on the druid front I would expect them to get more play.


Oh also the best 3v3 team imo is:  Warlock, Priest, Rogue.  The difference between 5 and 3 people targeting the first called target are huge according to my Warlock buddy.  In 3v3 its impossible to burn down a good lock before the priest can get off some healing.  If you go for the priest the lock can cast and bring the hurt.  Also rogues are so much more effective in small scale even if they aren't l33t pvp'ers.  Its too bad the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets are such an afterthought as they cater to such different strategies and class builds.  But at the same time the guilds winning 5v5 are winning 3v3 and 2v2 also.

My favorite armory info though is how dominate pvp servers are over their pve counterparts.  Proving that stereotype to be based in fact.  I haven't seen anyone actually compile all the numbers yet but in the battle group I care about most the PvP servers are DOMINATING all but I believe 1 spot of the top 20 5v5 teams.

Also some individual servers are obviously miles past the competition, which is interesting with all the transferring and rerolling guilds have done over the last couple years, it appears that pvp'ers claiming they wanted good competition wasn't entirely bullshit and some people do want a challenge not just sheep to bitchslap around.

Fear not though, there are people winning with some interesting lineups at least at this point.

[Merusk]

My favorite armory info though is how dominate pvp servers are over their pve counterparts.  Proving that stereotype to be based in fact.  I haven't seen anyone actually compile all the numbers yet but in the battle group I care about most the PvP servers are DOMINATING all but I believe 1 spot of the top 20 5v5 teams.

Er.. proving what stereotype? That PVPers pvp more and are therefore better at it?

The folks who WERE top PvPers on my server haven't bothered with Arenas and don't bother with even the BGs anymore.  PvE players are.. um.. PvEing.  PvP was a distraction/ something to fill the time between raids.  Given that everyone's in "Farm Karazhan and  Heroics" mode, this trend isn't surprising.

About the only PvP I even get see people get involved in anymore is the world stuff.  Great fun fighting the people you know again, rather than the unknown Horde from another server.   

[Righ]

Proving that stereotype to be based in fact.

QED your post belongs on the official WoW forums.

[WindupAtheist]

Here's a sterotype for someone to track:  Do all night elves suck ass at PVP, or is it just my perception?  I've never been killed by a night elf that wasn't "level ??" to me or who didn't appear as I was fighting a bunch of mobs.  Basically, I'm not very good at PVP but I've never had a night elf win a fight with me that wasn't ludicrously stacked in their favor from the start.

[Merusk]

Some days I wonder when, exactly, did the Sinij brain virus infect WUA.

 :-D

[Calantus]

Double Edit: lol @ 400+ entries for "Legolas", I'm fairly certain this only searchs active accounts.

Yeah I don't see any of my characters from my cancelled accounts on there.

Edit: reworded

Same. I like how Calantus shows up nothing though. I've never ever ever had my name taken since I started using it in the late 90s, it's pretty cool to never have it stolen. Hell, even I don't use it sometimes (and none of my WoW mains were Calantus).

Makes for some entertaining new wastes of time too - the latest nerf post:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79166617&sid=1

That is actually pretty accurate from what I'm hearing from the PVPers I used to play with too.

I'm hearing that there's basically 2 types of teams: 2 healers and 3 healers. In both cases the healer base is the paladin and priest combo, with a third healer generally being a shaman or a 2nd paladin. The main 2 offence characters are the warrior and the mage, with the groups tending to be made around one of the other, or both. If the warrior is the focus, the group tends to be 3 healers and another melee (rogue/warrior) to emphasise the staying power of non-mana offence. If the mage is the focus the group tends to be 2 healers to allow more offence to burn quickly before mana runs out, with the 2 other offence being some combination of mage/warrior/warlock (the warlock mostly existing to tank so the real offence is free to go off). The hybrid mage/warrior tends to go control by adding another mage or warlock.

Druids and hunters don't factor in unless you know really good people who play that class. Warlocks and rogues tend to go in as compliments to the real offence classes.

It's not surprising though. In most of the 5v5 games that used to exist before arenas the star line-up was priest+(paladin/shaman)+warrior+mage+(warlock/warrior) and anybody who did different was experimenting or had to settle with what they had.

Proving that stereotype to be based in fact.

QED your post belongs on the official WoW forums.

He's right though. I know lots of people who rolled on PVP servers and dislike open PVP, but rolled PVP because they expected to have more/better competition and fellow PVP advocates to play with. I know I did. Infact I had this conversation a month or so before BC with someone I used to PVP with who was thinking of rerolling PVE but was worried he wouldn't have enough good and enthusiastic PVPers to play with. It's just simple fact, people who really want to PVP and compete tend to roll PVP servers because that's what they're for. PVEers aren't as good on average because they just don't want to be (on average).

[Fordel]

My guess is most druids you see in the Arena's are Feral DPS/Cyclone bots, I'm half certain paladins can't bubble out of cyclone, have to test that myself on day.

Druid healing isn't very keen for PvP. It is either too slow or too inefficient, so your heal never lands or you are oom too fast. Also while in heal mode, you are as squishy as a priest, if not more so. Have no idea how Tree of Life fares in the arena but my guess is not so good.

There simply aren't very many druids to begin with really.

[Zetor]

I wonder how many 5v5 teams include an affliction warlock to mess up paladins. Out of all the classes [save maybe priest mass dispel], they have the best tools to deal with them... of course they're soooo squishy it might not be worth it (hi mr. undead mutilate rogue with COS!).


-- Z.

[lamaros]

Warlocks (esp affliction) are like this in the arena:

The longer the fight, the more powerful.

Thus.

They all get killed first.

Thus.

They are pretty much not wanted in 5v5.

I 2v2 with a mage. 15second fight he does 15k damage I do 1-5k. And longer and I catch up then overtake him. I had one fight where I did 60k damage (against a holy and shadow priest team)

[Zetor]

I know, my main is an affliction warlock. :P (37/3/21, gimp pve spec)
I duo with a feral druid, and it's not really an effective group makeup. Sure, we wreck unusual setups like mage+mage or mage+warlock [and even rough up druid+rogue groups... paranoia + druid gloves stealth detection buff = love], but any group with a rogue/hunter/warrior in it just takes me out of the picture too damn fast. Warrior-paladin groups otoh would be very beatable, if I respecced to 41 affliction. (we can almost beat them now, but dispelling roots, fear, and my dots means they win the efficiency race in the end). But we are just playing a few matches whenever the mood strikes me, don't want to get into the 2000+ bracket or anything. I'll say though, for all the crying about overpowered warlocks, they certainly don't seem to do too hot in a group situation when compared to others.

Anyway, 2v2 tends to be very gimmicky, and a lot of matches are determined by the matchup itself (that same 2 frost mage group that didn't pose a problem for us would annihilate a 2-rogue group, which in turn would kick our ass, etc.). I imagine the same is true of 3v3 to a lesser extent [those groups will probably have a healer... a lot of 2v2 groups don't].


-- Z.

[ClydeJr]

who wants to take over / under on the mean time for someone to make a plugin that crawls that site, and checks for names of people you are currently grouped with, so you can tell if they are doing things like rolling on stuff they already have in the instance you are running?

Addons can't interact with outside sources of data. The addon can't interactively take a name from in-game and look it up in the armory. Now you could compile the data beforehand and then load that up when you load WoW. So when you click on "Arrowgorn" who says he's a protection warrior, you can see at least when you last compiled the data that he was a fury warrior.

My guild uses www.rpgoutfitter.com because it includes what characters have which crafting recipes and it also shows what is in the guild's vault character's banks.

[MrHat]

A compiled list would work since you could just do L70's on yer server.