Skill Planing

[Wolf]

So for the first time after I started playing several months ago I decided it was high time I stopped clicking on random skills and go for something. For a couple of days I planed what I wanted to go for and chose the skills I can't live without 'till I get there. I came up with a list and started following it. Today was really slow at work, so I did a bit of calculating and came up with the number of days it will take me to finish everything I have planed. The number is around 235 days O_O. That's 8 fucking months. I haven't made plans this long term about my life and here I am doing it in a game. It's scary. So how much time 'till you get to what you're gunning for?

[Venkman]

I originally was going for the Assault Frigate. From two weeks ago when I calculated it, I would have needed until June 5th :P Then I dug in and realized just how expensive the things can get both ship and equipment wise, and while I hope to be all sorts of rich by June 5th, I ain't going to do that sitting in a Station.

So I've gone a bit more incremental. There's always like 12 skills I need, so I stagger them such that I can ALT-TAB throughout the day to learn to level 2, do some at night and then set a long string of 12hour-1day skills. For the last week I've been almost entirely focused on weapon, capacitor, and navigation support skills.

By next week I want to be using a MWD.

By the following I want to be in a Rupture.

Beyond that I want to be using T2 weaponry.

Throughout I want to make some cash, get some of that into the Corp coffers, and beat back the enemy :)

[Polysorbate80]

Dunno really.  I try not to plan that far in advance because it's too intimidating to contemplate in one large chunk.  Rather like when I used to bicycle up a 2000-foot high grade in 100-degree heat; looking up the whole side of the valley from the base you'll just say "Fuck this noise", go home and drink beer.  If you instead focus on just the next few yards ahead of you, and keep saying "I can do this little stretch no problem", next thing you know you're at the top and enjoying the long coast down to the bottom.

Stupid motivational bullshit aside, I like to do a wide mix of things (except for mining.  Mining am boring, k?)  Tons of skills at 2-4, very few Vs, although I bit the bullet and started the jump to advanced learning skills and now have about two weeks left on training them to IV.

I'm not going for a particular ship, so instead of requirements for particular ships, I focus more on things that apply to all vessels--i.e. upgrades to weapons, shields, engineering, armor, etc.  After learning skills finish, I'm thinking finishing drones V and the skills that opens up; my Raven needs to be able to melt frigs a little faster.

[5150]

I find its easier to set short term goals and just keep an eye on the long term.

I was looking at covert ops but all told thats about 2 months (electronics upgrade 5 and Frigate 5 are both about a month each) of training (and doesnt include buying using anything other than the prototype cloak!) so I changed my perspective

I've just created an alt to do all the 'shadier' jobs my main cant or wont do (mainly to get the blackmarket skill at character creation) hes now almost at the point of being able to do everything he needs to in order to pvp in a kestrel (just need engineer 5 to cram the last launcher on!), total training time is about 2 weeks - for the times when he didnt have any skills over 8 hours long to learn (which I do while I'm at work) I'd swap back to my main and make some headway into those month long skills overnight)

I've also looked at battleship for my main, but Cruiser 4 is quite an undertaking and I dont have any weapon skills for battleship either (well I have torps but really need cruise and large hybrid) plus the fact that I dont have the cash to buy a bs, and I dont have the minerals [yet] to make one from the BPC I picked up - once either of those things change I will re-evaluate the situation.

[Wolf]

I'm at the point where there really are no short term goals. I just need to finish up some left overs. I fly a BS with enough skills to handle a triple BS spawn in 0.0 and I fly a ceptor for med sized pvp and my Domi is the bane of anything in solo pvp. Within a month or something I'll be able to fit my Mega enough to be able to take part in big fleet battles. After that I want to go for t2 guns for the mega, but due to the gayness that is the gunnery tree that will take me a good 3 months, where I'll be getting a lot of skills I'll never use. That's what bothers me :(

The mega-long-term goal I have is to one day fly a carrier but that's a good 5 months from BS 5 to the point where I'll have enough skills to do some damage with it and not die in a second :) The thing is that once I go for the carrier I won't have ANY improvement on my current ships for literary MONTHS. After BS 5 you have to get Advanced Spaceship Command, which is basicly spaceship command but for capital ships. Than you have to get the Capital Ships skill, which won't even be usefull for the carrier and a bunch of stupid stuff like Warp Drive ops 5, Science 5, Leadership 5... That's why I changed my plan to go for carrier right away and pushed it back after the T2 Guns for my Mega. Anyway, I just felt like ranting about it 'cause there's stuff in the skill tree I just DONT get (Like the gunnery tree vs the rockets tree, or the requirements for Tech II Drones...).

[Cougar]

Training for Carriers/Dreads is brutal, and definately a good long term goal. I do agree with your decision to go after T2 Large Weapons first however. Many of the skills that you will train up with work equally well with a carrier or a dread, and having large weapon 5 is a minimum for capital guns that dreads will field (or torp 5 for the caldari dread and citadel torps).

I think I've spent the last 8 months training for capital ships, maybe 6. I can now own and fly a carrier very well, but still have 1.3 months left in training to use a dreadnaught (stupid Adv Weapon Upgrades 5). All of this was not counting any skills I already had at the right level before really starting the capital ship push (although I took a small break to train for recon cruisers in there, 2 weeks whoopie).

On a day to day basis, you'll see more benefit from T2 guns (of all sizes) than you would of capital ships. I've got 4 kills in my carrier, and used it on a single fleet op since it got built 3 weeks ago. I've used T2 Large, T2 Med, and T2 Small guns at least one a day in those same 3 weeks.

hrm... I think there was a point when I hit the reply button. I shall now make with the obtaining of the caffeene.

[Wolf]

Wait, wait. You use guns on the carrier? Or I didn't get something. Don't you have to use them fancy drone control modules?

The thing is I'm skipping HACs as part of my progression, because honestly I see them as a dead-end kind of thing. Which would effectively mean that I'll be training a ton for med sized hybrids and tech 2 med rails which I will never ever use :) That's why I think that the gunnery tree is ghay :)

[Cougar]

Forgive my pre-soda ramble: You cannot use guns or missles on a carrier. But having to train BS5, Adv Spaceship 5 means that if you train for one, you are pretty damned close to the other in terms of Dreads and Carriers. Note: Pretty close is really a mislabel, both of them has their own special type of ass pain involved for skills needing to be trained up.

And the drone control modules aren't released yet :(  I have smart bombs and heavy neutralizers on my carrier in my high slots.

Skipping HAC's... well, with the prices on them these days, I can see why you would. But you HAVE to have T2 Medium to get T2 Large weapons, an idiosyncracy that T2 missles don't share. So if you are getting T2 Large guns, you will have T2 Small and T2 Medium guns. Flying a HAC into battle gives you alot more survivability than if you were flying a normal cruiser (if you are wanting to fly that ship class - and there are advantages to it), especially if you are using them as a T2 weapons platform.

Basically, if you only ever PVE/Mission run, I can see why you would think you would never use medium or small guns. In PvP, that just isn't the case. Sometimes it is really enjoyable to fly around in a completely disposable cruiser, and sometimes a fleet makeup needs them. Either way, large gun 5 is needed for capital guns (if you choose to go down the Dread route) as well as T2 guns. Everyone always welcomes T2 Large Guns on the field of battle, except maybe the guy you are shooting...

[Silus Fromme]

The thing is I'm skipping HACs as part of my progression, because honestly I see them as a dead-end kind of thing. Which would effectively mean that I'll be training a ton for med sized hybrids and tech 2 med rails which I will never ever use :) That's why I think that the gunnery tree is ghay :)

Ever seen a HAC in action?  When they were stress testing the new cluster I was in a roving gang of 5 mixed BSs, and all of us together could barely break the tank of this one guy in a HAC.  After about 20 minutes we'd popped half a dozen other BSs and uncounted BCs, cruisers, and frigs, but this one guy was still orbitting us just shrugging off everything we threw at him.  Eventually we just recruited him so we could move on.

The market for them has to crash eventually, hopefully as an extension of revamping the BPO lottery.  Here's to hoping that's sooner rather than later.

The gunnery tree just has way more usefull stuff in it than missles taken as a whole.  Considering few people use defenders, fofs, or even lights often enough to go for t2, and there are fewer support skills, and torps are really only used by mission runners, you can skill up in missles to where you want to be faster but you have less places to want to be.  With guns there are a couple more support skills, and every "branch" of the gun tree is worth following provided you're flying sympathetic ships, and every level of the tree (small, med, large) is tied more tightly to ship class than missles as well.

[Hoax]

I'm not sure the market will crash HAC's are the primo mission running and solo ganking ships period.  They move and allign with speed, have crazy resists and can dish out insane damage.  I've actually died faster to a Ishkar then I have to a Raven.

[Murgos]

Next tier of BB's coming soon I think...  I wouldn't be surprised if that takes some of the edge off HAC prices.

[Wolf]

The thing with the IshTar (:P) is that it basicly has the firepower of a dominix on a cruiser (it's a bit better even, because it's drone dmg bonus is at the cruiser skill level, which is 5 by default if you're flying it). And good resists. It's an amazing machine, don't get me wrong. But it's not that different from a Dominix - slap a N-type thermal and kinetic hardners on the two extra low slots you have, voila (same thermal, -15% kinetic). What you get is a bit slower Ishtar with 3.3x Armor, 4x cap, that can fit 4 Heavy Noses instead of 4 Medium Ones. One ship costs 150 mil, the other ~60 (if you buy it off the market, and don't build it yourself from reprocessing loot, it's probably the cheapest BS) And you know what? One is insureable over 17mil, the other over the full 60 (added bonus of collecting your insurance even if you don't get your ship blown up, so you don't lose money). So what's the difference at Battleship 4 on one side and Cruiser 5, HAC 4 on the other? Absolutly the same drone bay and 10% Dmg/Durability on drones and +15 Kinetic resistance for the Ishtar. Hell I can live with being slower, turning like an old lady and having the sig radius of a moon.

My other option? The Deimos? People with Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 have trouble fitting that ship. Don't call on poor lil' noob wolf to fit it :) Plus I really don't think melee-close range fighting works in that game. It's my general feel that meleers just don't work.

I'm not dissing HACs in general, I'm just saying from the gallente options one is HUGELY overrated, small version of the most awesome battleship in service and the other is extremly hard to fit for most people (me included). I've flown the Eagle on a buddy account (sniper setup, optimal 160km) and god that thing simply DECIMATES frigates and locks capsules in 2 seconds. It's amazing. I'm hearing only good stuff about the other HACs, but my two options are just not feasable to throw myself that deep in a skill tree without any further development in sight.

Oh, almost forgot:

But you HAVE to have T2 Medium to get T2 Large weapons, an idiosyncracy that T2 missles don't share. So if you are getting T2 Large guns, you will have T2 Small and T2 Medium guns.

Hence my comment about the gunnery tree being ghey.

[Raging Turtle]

Question - I'm two days away from Basic Int skill V, and I've got Advanced Memory at III right now.  Once I get Advanced Int to III, would it be better to A: Train Learning to V, B: Get Advanced Int and Mem to IV right away, or C: Get Advanced Perception and Willpower up right away and not worry so much about Learning or advanced Mem IV and Int IV as they won't make a huge difference right now?

[Yoru]

My advice? Do adv mem and int to 4, forget about learning 5, then do the perc/will ones. In my opinion, learning 5 isn't worth the 4+ days you'll put into it unless you hang around for over a year.

[Hoax]

The math on learning V is terrible if I remember right.

I suggest taking Adv Int to at least II right away, because those are fast.  If your going to be doing learning skills either way take it to III.  If you wanted to take a break there and train up some basic combat skills (I-III's) do that, your fun meter will thank you. 

As for advanced INT/MEM to IV I wouldn't worry about those untill its time to start training either high level skills (things like large weapons, battleships, the more advanced gunnery skills like trajectory analysis) or you've got some V's you just have to have.

Taking both to III then taking PER/WP to III then getting some combat skilling is the way I would go personally.  But that's the nice thing about EvE you can pick and choose how and when you ding more or less so you know if you need the satisfaction of that extra 5% something cool right away or not.

[Reg]

After I got my advanced mem and int both up to 4 I took a long break and trained more interesting skills. There are a ton that depend on mem/int so it's not like I lost anything by doing that. And it kept me from going mad with boredom.