XBox to release with 2 Models

[Sky]

They've already committed to every title being 720p for the Xbox 360.

I agree with the rest of what you said, though. There is the walmart factor to be considered.

[Nija]

Most xbox games are already 480i and 480p, which are two different resolutions.

PICKING NITS but 480i and 480p are the same resolution. Difference is that both even and odd lines are drawn each frame with 480p, and it draws evens one frame then odds the next frame with 480i.

This always pissed me off with ps2 games that were ported to xbox and did not support 480p. Shit like Dy-nasty Warriors displayed in wonderful 480i, when there is no goddamn reason not to support 480p.

[Shockeye]

Bethesda has said that Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion will not require a HDD for the Xbox 360. I guess that means the PC version will be based on console limitations. Joy.

[Strazos]

So wait, will these new consoles be requiring a HD TV set?

Even if I want a next-gen console, I'm sure as hell not buying a new TV on top of that purchase.

[Shockeye]

Interesting comments from developers over at Next Generation in regards to the Xbox 360 having two different "packages" available.

I found this one especially accurate and disturbing:

Scott Miller
CEO
3D Realms

"One word:  Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base.  So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it's an option that cannot be counted on."

[Miasma]

Interesting comments from developers over at Next Generation in regards to the Xbox 360 having two different "packages" available.

I found this one especially accurate and disturbing:

Scott Miller
CEO
3D Realms

"One word:  Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base.  So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it's an option that cannot be counted on."

I like this one too, it seems like most of them didn't have the guts to badmouth microsoft.

CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.'

[Jain Zar]

Too many of those devs seem obsessed with wireless controllers, one of the most useless "innovations" in gaming.
Id rather have no batteries to worry about thanks.  I am nearsighted and don't play games more than 5 feet away from the console anyhow.

Wireless controller setups don't matter until they manage to make them battery free IMHO.

[MrHat]

Too many of those devs seem obsessed with wireless controllers, one of the most useless "innovations" in gaming.
Id rather have no batteries to worry about thanks.  I am nearsighted and don't play games more than 5 feet away from the console anyhow.

Wireless controller setups don't matter until they manage to make them battery free IMHO.

That, and let me turn on the console using my wireless controller.  If you're going to tout that you don't have to be near the console, why make me go up there and push a button then go back and start playing.

[Shockeye]

Too many of those devs seem obsessed with wireless controllers, one of the most useless "innovations" in gaming.
Id rather have no batteries to worry about thanks.  I am nearsighted and don't play games more than 5 feet away from the console anyhow.

Wireless controller setups don't matter until they manage to make them battery free IMHO.

That, and let me turn on the console using my wireless controller.  If you're going to tout that you don't have to be near the console, why make me go up there and push a button then go back and start playing.

And then have a tray in the console that'll hold 3-5 games so I don't have to get off my ass to change the game.

[MrHat]

Too many of those devs seem obsessed with wireless controllers, one of the most useless "innovations" in gaming.
Id rather have no batteries to worry about thanks.  I am nearsighted and don't play games more than 5 feet away from the console anyhow.

Wireless controller setups don't matter until they manage to make them battery free IMHO.

That, and let me turn on the console using my wireless controller.  If you're going to tout that you don't have to be near the console, why make me go up there and push a button then go back and start playing.

And then have a tray in the console that'll hold 3-5 games so I don't have to get off my ass to change the game.

I'd take that as an add on accessory.  But seriously, there's no reason to not have a remote-on button when it's already an electronic switch and a wireless controller.

[Yegolev]

I agree with the stipulation that you still need memory card slots.  I know plenty of people with consoles who may want to trade savegames/ unlocks with me but who have no broadband access or lack the technical know-how to hook their console into their TV without assistance, much less e-mail a savegame to my X-box (if that were even an option)

The fact that some savegame files simply would not allow copying to a memory card (KOTOR I think) was angrifying.  It wasn't a size issue, either, since I was using a 512MB USB memory stick instead of the standard card.  I am in favor of some sort of transmission, even if it isn't via memory card.

[schild]

Mark Rein
VP
Epic Games

"I think it's a very good strategy given the potential competitive landscape. They get a lower priced version for people who are more cost-conscious and an everything-you-need-for-online-gaming version for those who want the full experience. Developers were always told not to expect a hard drive on every machine so nobody has developed with the assumption it will be there.

"Developers already got our big Xbox 360 gift - we got 512MB of RAM. That was a huge win for developers and customers alike and there was no way we were going to get that and a hard drive on every machine.  The RAM is more important and will make a bigger difference than the hard drive would have. There will be lots of great reasons why you'd want to buy the hard drive and it will be available as an upgrade so nobody is selling themselves short if they can't afford the all-options version because they can buy those options a-la-carte (for more money mind you) if needed.

I hate to be rain on the hate parade, but if Epic is happy (whom I consider by far to make some of the most stable and fun games on the market) is happy, I'm happy. Also, there's a lot of shit that comes with that $399 console. But hey, that's just me.

[Margalis]

All he said was that the hard drive will be basically useless to most people.

[schild]

All he said was that the hard drive will be basically useless to most people.

No, he said that developers should shut their mouths and count themselves lucky that they have half a gig of ram to work with. And I agree.

[Sky]

Too many of those devs seem obsessed with wireless controllers, one of the most useless "innovations" in gaming.
Id rather have no batteries to worry about thanks.  I am nearsighted and don't play games more than 5 feet away from the console anyhow.

Wireless controller setups don't matter until they manage to make them battery free IMHO.

I disagree with what you said.

"Worry" about batteries? I have to change the batteries in my controller maybe once every couple months. They are rechargeables, so I plop in some charged units and drop the dead ones in the charger for 15 minutes. I use a wireless mouse, that gets about two weeks per charge. Both use standard AA.

I'll never use a wired controller again.

But hey, you're nearsighted, let's stop developing products for people who actually wear their glasses.

No, he said that developers should shut their mouths and count themselves lucky that they have half a gig of ram to work with. And I agree

I still think it was a bit light on RAM. It's still shared RAM, and it's got to serve those 6 cpu cores. I just want some high resolution friggin' textures. Going from GTA:SA to BF2 is shocking, and then there's the whole Thief:DS debacle where some homebrew kit adds better resolution textures than the devs bothered to add. Console whoremongers.

[AOFanboi]

And then have a tray in the console that'll hold 3-5 games so I don't have to get off my ass to change the game.

Or have them be downloaded off the net instead. So which will be first, the Phantom or the Revolution?

[Nija]

The x360 controllers charge via USB anyhow, so the whole "batteries" argument is over.

[HaemishM]

David Perry
President
Shiny Entertainment


The PC model is the example, giving gamers the experience they are happy to pay for. Xbox 360 actually beats the PC as there's a common high-quality 3D baseline, so you can only go upwards. I hope Microsoft enjoys the experience from this strategy and truly opens up the model for Xbox 720.  Meaning if I choose to add extra features or enhance features, I can do that.

Yes, because the PC model has been SO GODDAMN PROFITABLE to PC game developers. You fucking twat. The PC model is KILLING developers, what with all the money needed for QA and different dev platforms. The whole fucking point of a console is to have standardized fucking hardware, so that the teeming masses of Joe SixPack doesn't ever have to think about how to make his game work, he just plugs it in and goes. Joe Sixpack and his lazy stupidity is what makes consoles more profitable.

Options is good. But I think after the X-Box, Microsoft should have realized that the HDD shouldn't be an optional package, especially when their competitors don't have a HDD. Following the PC model for hardware on a console is beyond braind dead stupid, especially when no one can really show me how the 360 is a significant upgrade from the X-Box.

EDIT: And lest I forget, I want to give all the current gen console manufacturers a gigantic FUCK YOU, YOU COCKBAGS for ending the practice of packing a free game in the with the system.

[Merusk]

Wow..

He needs to go develop PC games like he seems to want to do, rather than consoles.  When he then whines that there's no money in PC games we can send Haemish over to club him to death with his own arms.

The thing is, I can see Microsoft pushing down that direction. They'll then start to incorporate other features using their OS as the base.  Maybe include an integrated video screen! Yah, they can call it a Kiwi or something similarly fruity.  It'll be revolutionary!

[Trippy]

Xbox 360 Marketing Brochure Leak
 

[Margalis]

Dave Perry is one of the biggest idiots in the VG industry. Whatever he says, think the exact opposite.

What the PC model proves is that the PC model sucks, and that the console standardized hardware approach is far far superior.

Dave Perry is mostly about spouting bullshit and promoting himself. Ask yourself a question: What's the fundamental difference between a PC and a console? Tough one, huh?

[HaemishM]

More profit for the developers?  :-D

[Strazos]

Sorry, I don't like wireless....radio interference = fucked up controls. I had a wireless keyboard for awhile, and it would spaz out at times.

And fuck the console model.....I'll always perfer the PC for controls.

[Shockeye]

According to a chat with Baldy, you will have to purchase a memory card for $30 if you want to save your games if you buy the cheapo system. Or for $70 you can get the hard drive, wireless, etc.

WTF is the reason for the cheapo system again?

[Trippy]

According to a chat with Baldy, you will have to purchase a memory card for $30 if you want to save your games if you buy the cheapo system. Or for $70 you can get the hard drive, wireless, etc.

Actually according to the leaked marketing brochure it's $39.99 (estimated retail price) for the memory card in the US.

WTF is the reason for the cheapo system again?

Beats me.

[Shockeye]

Actually according to the leaked marketing brochure it's $39.99 (estimated retail price) for the memory card in the US.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.

WTF?

[Stormwaltz]

No, he said that developers should shut their mouths and count themselves lucky that they have half a gig of ram to work with. And I agree.

I'm not a programmer, and I'm not speaking for the company, but I'd like to point out that RPGs tend to create large save games due to the many plot states that have to be saved. Also, players tend to build up larger collections of saved games ("Floyd's eyes light up. 'Ooo, are we going to do something dangerous now?'").

Epic's games don't deal with that sort of issue. Of course they're happy that they can keep larger levels in memory. Things might be less clear-cut for the developers of RPGs and other games that create large save files.

Again, not speaking for my company or from personal experience, just observing from the sidelines. Disclaim, disclaim.

[Shockeye]

Again, not speaking for my company or from personal experience, just observing from the sidelines. Disclaim, disclaim.

Not speaking for f13.net or even myself, what you say makes sense.

[eldaec]

I'm delighted with the choice of more ram over a HD.

Because the PC port *will* have a HD.

And 512Mb could well increase time between loading pauses up from 10 seconds to maybe as high as 20. Of course 512Mb still isn't enough - but that's a whole other thing.


The decision to include a fucking webcam over a HD, does, of course, seem rather more bizarre.

WTF is the reason for the cheapo system again?

So that the adverts can have $199 splashed across them in enormous red lettering by the middle of next year.

[HaemishM]

I thought the cheap system was for Halidiots and Maddenorons?

[Shockeye]

I thought the cheap system was for Halidiots and Maddenorons?

Only if they buy the brand new Halo 3 and Madden 360 since you NEED THE HD FOR BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY.

[HaemishM]

I thought it was assumed that all Halidiots and Maddenorons had to have the absolute latest greatest version.

[Shockeye]

I thought it was assumed that all Halidiots and Maddenorons had to have the absolute latest greatest version.

But Halo 3 won't ship until next year. So if they want their Halo fix they'll need the $400 package with the HD.

[Jain Zar]

I think many people have said the cheapie system is just so Microsoft can say "LOOK GUYZ WE ARE CHEAPER THAN PS3 LOL.  (Ps: Find way to post patent something Sony made since its working well against Apple's iPod.)"

Typical bait and switch.  Like newspaper circulars listing coupons and rebates as the actual price, even though they know most folks won't use either.  Just a way to bait the customer in, hoping clerk fast talk and customer stupidity will provide the barbed hook.

[Margalis]

There are a couple reasons for the two models:

1: They can say they cost $300.
2: They can trick people into buying the cheap one, then make more money off them when they have to upgrade.

If you are like me and have component cable in on your TV, to get the cheap version you are looking at $300 + $40 for memory card + $20-30 for component cables. That's retarded. For $30 more I can have the hard drive, wireless controls, etc.

It would only make sense if each of the peripherals were cheap. It's stupid for the consumer, and for the producer. For the consumer for obvious reasons. For the producer because the HD, which should have been standard, is not, which limits the quality of games for no good reason and eliminates a competitive advantage.


The choice between RAM and HD is a red herring, they could have done both and just charged more. Which realistically is what they are doing, since the cheap version is such a ripoff.