Shamans: how do you destroy them?

[Hoax]

Man if the game was half as fun as Theorycraft is I would so be playing still...

I dont believe that 18sec per windfury proc either unless there was a nerf I missed which is possible, I've tried to stay on top of the changes but some patches I've only read the priest and pally tweaks closely.

[Zetor]

There's also a known bug with earthshock and similar interrupts like counterspell that send a huge spam of ACTIONBAR_UPDATE_COOLDOWN events to the client, freezing those with lesser computers (like me) for 2-4 sec. It's real fun when an earthshock acts as a 4-second stun, let me tell you. Oh, and this is not getting fixed until 1.7 (1+ month from now).


<3,

-- Z.

[Sairon]

Man if the game was half as fun as Theorycraft is I would so be playing still...

I dont believe that 18sec per windfury proc either unless there was a nerf I missed which is possible, I've tried to stay on top of the changes but some patches I've only read the priest and pally tweaks closely.

18 sec / windfury is the average if we're talking about Arcanite Reaper. And as an actual shaman I've experienced that it's pretty much the case. Thing is most oponents don't remember that time when you're whacking away not procing, they remember the times when you proc like crazy. It IS 20%, the description says so, and after watching my tauren swing his weapon quite a few times I feel pretty safe to say that it actually is 20%.

One thing which is pretty intresting though is procs seems to be affected by the oponents defense skill vs your weapon skill. For example if I come across a lowbie I'm almost guaranteed to proc like a mofo. Same goes for whacking away at criters, proc every swing. And it's the other way around when you fight very high mobs, on Molten Destroyers ( lvl 63 ) in MC it feels like it never procs.  So I'm guessing that 20% is when your weapon skill is the same as your oponents defense skill.

[Ironwood]

Is that not just because you're succesfully hitting more ?

[kaid]

I believe those proc rates and for others like it are at that listed percentage against something of your level. If the target is higher or lower your milage will vary.

kaid

[Samprimary]

It'd be cool to know the average 60vs60 proc times on Hand of Edward the Odd.

[Zetor]

Slightly OT, but where the 'eck does the Hand of EtO drop? The druids in my guild have been in a frenzy ever since they saw some pally with it...


-- Z.

[Trippy]

Slightly OT, but where the 'eck does the Hand of EtO drop? The druids in my guild have been in a frenzy ever since they saw some pally with it...

It looks to be a random world drop:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=2243
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=21012

[Zetor]

Figures... I thought it was a BoP instance-only drop like the sunrazor. Ah well.


-- Z.

[Samprimary]

A random world drop = IT CAN BE URS FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF MONEYS ON EBAY.

And holy crikey, it's a deadly piece of kit. Over the time it takes to melee a single battle, you get 2 or 3 free chain lightnings/healing waves, about.

[Calantus]

/start aside

Druids with the Hand on PVP servers make baby jesus cry. If you're on a pvp server please point out to them that they will be mince-meat if they spend too long in caster form, and in bear form they don't benefit from weapon procs. The only Hand to drop on our server went to a druid and he wishes he sold it instead of equipped it because it's not very good for him. On a PvE server... yeah some druids put on OoC and whack at mobs for free spells, and this would be nice for 'em.

/end aside

[Samprimary]

Ok, we've been doing a bonanza of mage/shaman fights.

The imbalance is clear and powerful, but patterns are pretty established at this point in time.

Mage is going to get off a sheep if they've learned the ES/grounding timers well. This puts any shaman without NS at some risk (triple-tree is still better than ele spec against mages), but there's still an issue of duel disparity. Also, fear spell reflection. Trinkets are nasty.

The priority of the mage is going to be to try to get out of the range of shocks at all times. If one is super-cool enough to keep track of earthbind totem cooldown, they can appropriately time a frost nova and a blink.

Don't blink behind the opponent; if your opponent is a decent fighter, they know easily how to re-face and interrupt spellcasting easy. Blink to range, use it to keep distance.

Since shocks are centered around spell interrupt, the earthbind totem is going to be used often. It will be dropped whenever the mage is within melee range. It will also be dropped in response to a frost nova fly-by, to prevent a run out of shock range. Perhaps if the shaman's feeling gutsy, you'll get an odd frost shock, but I rarely ever do this.

Melee range happens. Both grounding and ES interrupt spells on the fly as the shaman runs, where the mage must be holding still to attempt spells. Don't panic when this happens, expect it and learn how best to deal with the confrontation. Correct use of blink and frost noval are critical at this point, and a failed frost nova can spell doooooom, as can a well-timed windfury proc.

Get sheep off and bandage. Poke totems with wands in this period. If a shaman sees the inevetable sheep coming, they'll do various things, like drop a fireball spittin' totem. Get rid of any red totems you see before you start bandaging, as it sucks to have a searing totem whack you within seconds of your bandage. This also offers an opportunity to get rid of resistance totems which are otherwise not worth concentrating on.

Frost mages seem to do better, as they have the most ability to get and keep a shaman at range long enough to wear them down, but so far as of yet it appears that any situation like this that will throw a match to the mage has to be the result of avoidable shaman error. Also, given the complete lack of benefit from armor class, a versatile shaman will pull out a powerful 2h staff/axe/mace to maximize the DPS in a mage fight.

Factors involving the start of the duel matter too. Does the duel start at a fixed range? Is it 20? 30? Does the shaman pre-place totems, such as the handy 10y-spaced grounding with the 15 second cooldown expired? This gives the shaman three consecutive interrupts.

The worst way for a mage to have the duel start is if the shaman is allowed the liberty to waltz around, drop whatever totems he fancies, then sits at 10y or at point blank. We experimented by starting matches with no totems dropped until the battle began and with a fair-seeming starting distance between mage and shaman. We did allow the battle to be started with wf and lightning shield, though, just as most classes will 'buff up' before a duel. The Lightning Shield is convenient in that it's free added damage against the mage over the course of the duel.

If the shaman starts with totems pre-dropped, begin the match by running and blinking away past the distance of the originally placed totems. If the shaman is at range for shocks and/or earthbind, blink immediately away from them (behind, likely) and just keep running until you have decent timer on the next blink. Then work the anti-spell timers for your first chance at a sheep, which will take practice. Then bandage away damage, and then the fight begins with the opening situation now favorable to the mage.

Arduous.

Man, druids have it much easier against grounding, because they can always blast off a l1 moonfire to clear grounding from the target. Mages are somewhat lacking in the 'poke' spell department, so it's a clear liability. Also, being purged naked of all buffs at the drop of a hat is a terrible liability, but not so much as the liability to Druids being unable to utilize Regeneration on account of Purge. Or, for that matter, Shaman tremor-spam fear protection against priests and warlocks.

[Zetor]

After 1.6, shaman can obliterate any non-druid caster at will.

The reason? Grounding totem is broken. Instead of absorbing one spell every 10 seconds, it absorbs AN INFINITE NUMBER OF SPELLS as long as they don't do direct damage. A fight vs a competent shaman now goes like
*cast a spell from surprise, successfully* *start spell with casting time* *earthshock* *grounding totem* *try instacasts* immune immune immune immune immune immune dead. Fun. :P They said they'll fix this, so expect a fix in 2 months I guess.

(the first person that says "wand the totem" gets a shadowbolt in the face, yo.  )

Edited to help the content / whining ratio: My guild's been thinking about rolling horde on the pvp-rp server whenever it comes out. Do you guys think an all-troll guild would be viable? In pve (up to ubrs) and pvp (solo, group, wsg, av). If not, which class do you think we'd be missing most, warlocks or druids? Thankyas.


-- Z.

[Evil Elvis]

You'd miss Warstomp/WotF/Stun Resist more than druids or warlocks.  Each one is extremely valuable on a PvP server.

[Righ]

They said they'll fix this, so expect a fix in 2 months I guess.

It's not broken in the "my fucking character isn't working", it's broken in the "holy crap, this is easy, I'm rolling a Shammy" sort of way. So, given that people are able to get a PvE content advantage out of it, it will be hotfixed very very soon. They don't give a rats arse about Shammies owning you or whatnot. If you PvP you are expected to roll the FOTM class, not bitch about balance.

Prediction: Shaman will be buffed and Hunters nerfed until you Elf retards start playing Horde in reasonable numbers.

[Bunk]

Which makes all us Dwarf hunters cry.