Gamasutra Interviews creator of PaRappa the Rapper

[schild]

Rodney Greenblat interview here. My Favorite bit:

Gamasutra: Were you disappointed then with how they released it?

Greenblat: Well they did a pretty good job; they had TV commercials, billboards, and they really blasted it out there to the best of their ability. But they were marketing it towards little kids and I knew that wasn't going to be good, because it was a little too hard for little kids. Our audience in Japan was [made up of] teenagers and college kids... but here it was little kids which was a mistake. Which they tried to change with UmJammer Lammy; they pointed that directly at teens, but they overshot. [laughs] The U.S. Sony never got me, never figured out what I was doing, never figured out Matsuura's thing.

Gamasutra: Did you have any direct contact with someone at Sony America?

Greenblat: Only with marketing people after the game was slated to be sold here. I went to the opening… we had a big roll-out for the game here.... and did some interviews and press conferences. Mostly press people; they were all very nice and did the best job they could, but they really didn't have much support from corporate Sony.

Gamasutra: Many folks don't know that PaRappa became a mascot for the PlayStation in Japan.

Greenblat: That was what I was really hoping and really fighting for. I think Sony could have made PaRappa into their Mario. Nintendo has a Mario, and Sony didn't have that kind of identity; I was thinking that they needed a face for that company, and PaRappa was the perfect face. He's about music, he's about energy, and he's cool... he's like a happening little guy. He's not like an Italian plumber that you never figure out why that makes sense [laughs]. It was so perfect; I was really hoping that was the direction PaRappa was going.

Obviously, I'm more interested in the comments on corporate Sony America. Of course, given the success of things like Katamari over here, if the game had been released as something new (now), I think America would have discovered it and given sony a good smack with the cluebat. As it stands, SCEA seems to have had "not a clue" back in 1996. Sort of in the way Microsoft is handling designers for the 360 now - here's dev kits Mistar Japanesy Developer - CREATE MAGIC.

[Raph]

I have to admit that I tend to think of Masaya as the creator of Parappa. Guess that betrays my greater interest in game design than art. ;)

[schild]

I have to admit that I tend to think of Masaya as the creator of Parappa. Guess that betrays my greater interest in game design than art. ;)

When did game design and art become so removed from each other? Or are we just talking semantics here?

Edit: Engrish.

[Raph]

Well, I was being somewhat goofy there. :) I'm not putting down art at all.

Masaya Matsuura is basically the pioneer of rhythm games... he's really seminal for all that sort of game. And I tend ot think of Parappa as being really his creation. There's no doubt that the art style in Parappa is a huge part of it, but I wouldn't call Greenblat "the creator of Parappa" in that way.

I'm biased anyway--Masaya is a friend of mine, and I don't know Greenblat. :P

[schild]

Masaya Matsuura is basically the pioneer of rhythm games.

I agree.

I'm biased anyway--Masaya is a friend of mine, and I don't know Greenblat. :P

You know, rhythm games are a great way to apply the Theory of Fun to games, as you mentioned in the other thread. Maybe you should take a break from this virtual world mambo jambo and relax a bit with some straightforward console gaming design. Flex the mind, not the questwriters.

[Raph]

In the last year, I've designed around a dozen puzzle games, and a few arcade games. I've mostly implemented only the puzzle games (except that I was really hungering to play Crystal Quest, and there was no decent PC port, so I wrote one).

Felt really good. ;)

[Xilren's Twin]

In the last year, I've designed around a dozen puzzle games, and a few arcade games. I've mostly implemented only the puzzle games (except that I was really hungering to play Crystal Quest, and there was no decent PC port, so I wrote one).

Felt really good. ;)

Can i request you add these games to whatever the next MMORPG you work on please?  More mini-games FTW!

Xilren

[WayAbvPar]

In the last year, I've designed around a dozen puzzle games, and a few arcade games. I've mostly implemented only the puzzle games (except that I was really hungering to play Crystal Quest, and there was no decent PC port, so I wrote one).

Felt really good. ;)

Can i request you add these games to whatever the next MMORPG you work on please?  More mini-games FTW!

Xilren

Good call. Mini-games can add a bunch of fun. Look at the new generation of slot machines these days- the most popular ones have mini-games attached which keeps the quarters (and nickels and dollars) comin'.

[schild]

In the last year, I've designed around a dozen puzzle games, and a few arcade games. I've mostly implemented only the puzzle games (except that I was really hungering to play Crystal Quest, and there was no decent PC port, so I wrote one).

Felt really good. ;)

Or you can give them to us and we can offer them to the masses. Eh eh.

[WindupAtheist]

Raph, please remake UO but add shiney and subtract unrestricted griefing.  Also no Wookies.  Given how the genre has regressed since you let EQ ruin it, the above is all it will take to be hailed as the new Jesus.  I mean WoW is kinda fun and all, but bleh.  Better can be done.

(No, I have nothing to say about Parappa.  I just want to repeat the above at Raph until it burns itself into his brain.)

[Xanthippe]

Minigames if I can bet on them.  In-game poker playing would get me out of the auction house, maybe.  Assuming my fascination with gaming the economics of a game continues.

[HaemishM]

Given how the genre has regressed since you let EQ ruin it

Don't blame that one on Raph. That is squarely and directly on the players' heads for eating that shit up in not just one forms, but many.

And yes, that includes me. Especially me.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm of the school of thought that EQ might have been less dominant had UO not attached itself so irrevocably to the stigma of being a PK/griefer madhouse.  I mean, I was explaining the fact that the PK problem had been corrected for YEARS after Trammel came out, because "UO = gank" was all most casual gamers knew about it.  EQ got to take in every single gamer to ever be interested in the concept of an MMO, but who didn't want to be shivved by Rasix and his roving death squad just for trying to go to a dungeon.  EQ got to have every single person who just wanted to play a computer RPG with lots of other people, and not partake in some Lord of the Flies virtual social experiment.  And here we are today.

[HaemishM]

It was also incredibly immersive, due in no small part to its full 3d FPS style of graphics. For all its faults, there was nothing else like it on the market at the time.

[WindupAtheist]

EQ certainly would have been successful regardless of what UO did, and would probably still have become the bigger player, but the contest could have been MUCH closer.  Maybe close enough for one of the new entrants to try combining UO gameplay with EQ shiney, in an effort to one-up them both.  Instead UO took every last player (and potential player) who didn't think the whole purpose of the game was to 0wn n00bz, and handed them to EQ wrapped up with a bow.

I mean UO was the first real MMORPG, yet it had almost zero influence on anything that came afterward.  How is that possible?  It's possible because Raph allowed the entire world to write it off as "that PK game" while he wanked off to the idea of a virtual society.

I mean, just to make a pointless Star Wars reference:  Raph is like Darth Vader, and Sony is like the Emperor.  Raph could have kept evil from taking over the galaxy, but instead he joined it.  There's still good in him though, and now I wait patiently for him to throw Emperor Sony down a mineshaft and make a "virtual world" that doesn't blow.  Because really, he's the only one who can.

[Raph]

Uh, nice analogy. I think. 

I don't think it's quite right to say that UO had no influence though. In the end, it wasn't central philosophies that got adopted, but a lot of the more peripheral things certainly were. And a lot of the thinking that arose FROM it has turned out to be influential in a wide array of ways.

[WindupAtheist]

Well okay, I'll give you that, but here's what I'm really pushing at...

In the history of the Western MMORPG market, there were only three games that really mattered:  UO, EQ, and now WoW.  Each one expanded the market signifigantly, and the differences between each game and it's predecessor help illuminate what had been keeping customers out of the market previously.

WoW is widely held to have triumphed over EQ due to a decrease in grinding and general catassery.  It demonstrates that there was a larger market out there than what EQ captured, and that the grinding/catass aspects of the genre were a barrier to entry.

By the same token, I hold EQ to have triumphed over UO largely due to a lack of griefing and PK asshattery.  (Graphics quality also, but not entirely.)  I believe it demonstrated that there was a larger market for an MMORPG out there than what UO managed to capture, and that the game's terrible reputation for grief became a barrier to entry.

There was only one problem... EQ fucking sucked!  It was simple, derivative, and hugely lacking in terms of features.  But you could play and kill monsters and whatnot, without getting murdered and looted by c00L10.  And that was enough to make the difference.  UO's blackened name helped the mantle to be passed along based on something besides features and gameplay, and when the glut of MMOs came a few years later, they went to copy the game that was owning it's grief-scarred competition.

Slam down on the "realistic" PVP system and rampant grief early, and UO could have been much larger than it ever was historically.

[Arnold]

Slam down on the "realistic" PVP system and rampant grief early, and UO could have been much larger than it ever was historically.

The Notoriety system was killed very early.  I think the rep system was great.  You still had PKs out there, but they were throwaways and easily defeated when faced alone, or in small numbers.  If a gank squad showed up, a player who wasn't asleep could recall 9 times out of 10, and by the time you recalled back, they were in a different dungeon.

To me, without the opposition of other players, UO just wasnt UO.  I had experienced a watered down version of UO in my early days.  When I joined the O/C system with a character I played all the time (yes, even with 10k on me to buy regs), I got a glimpse of the real UO.  Finally, when SP came out, I got to experience UO in all its glory.

[HaemishM]

How can you say UO had almost zero influence on the industry that came after it? That is a retarded statement, even considering the glut of DikuMuds that followed EQ's success.

It showed a lot of things. It showed that wide-open PVP had an audience, which meant Shadowbane got built. Much of Shadowbane was built around the PVP aspects that were designed out of UO. As you yourself said, EQ would not have been as big as it was without the UO=PK Grief association in people's minds. Star Wars Galaxies would not have been made, or at least not as it was when released. Shit, SWG's PVP system, which was in direct opposition to UO's open PVP would not have been done without UO.

UO taught a lot of lessons that other games have tried to correct, such as DAoC attempting to add PVP without the asshat griefing, or SWG's attempt to make PVP palatable to everyone with its ultimately failed PVP switching system.

Also, the sheer amount of people who went through Origin/EA's university system of corporate rape would not have gone on to be developers in the MMOG industry for someone else. You'd be amazed at the number of people now working in the industry (both names and no-names) who got their first corporate game dev ass-raping at the hands of UO's overlords.

[WindupAtheist]

Ok, by influence I generally meant positive influence.  If you want to count as influence all the ways UO was an example of what NOT to do, and the way everyone sought to avoid it's fate, then yeah it comes off as a bit more influential.  But really, the reason everyone wanted to avoid being like UO was because EQ came along, did things differently, and made a shitload more money.

I mean Jesus, by your standard, the most influential aviator of all time was the guy who strapped wooden wings to his arms and jumped off a roof to his death.  Because everyone who tried to fly later knew what didn't work.

So anyway, now we're looking at a genre that is almost entirely the legacy of EQ, with UO's only real offspring being the marginally successful SWG.  Shadowbane was sort of a bastard half-breed, a Diku with ganking, and failed miserably besides.

[Pococurante]

Often the most useful knowledge *is* knowing what not to do...

[HaemishM]

I mean Jesus, by your standard, the most influential aviator of all time was the guy who strapped wooden wings to his arms and jumped off a roof to his death.  Because everyone who tried to fly later knew what didn't work.

I'd imagine the Wright Bros. were pretty goddamn happy that guy went out and did his experiment before they did.

[WindupAtheist]

Well okay, but to polish the analogy, UO did fly.  It flew higher and further than anything that had come before.  Problem was, the crew didn't give a shit if the passengers spent their time screaming and trying to stab each other with their dinner forks.  Then EQ came along with an aircraft of inferior performance, but took over the market because it had a shiny coat of paint and enforced a "no stabbing" rule.

PS:  Raph, lest it look like I'm just flaming you for the hell of it, I should point out that if I were filthy Bill Gates rich, I'd hand you a blank checkbook and tell you to make me some UO 2.0 goodness.  Nobody else in the industry seems to even be trying.

[schild]

Nor should they. Take off the rose-colored glasses, shitcock. It's time to move on.

[Jain Zar]

I look at UO in a similar way to Games Workshop games.  Magic too now that I think of it.

The designers genuinely thought adults and "gentlemen" would be playing it, and would appreciate the artistic and creative aspects more than the built in gameplay. 

Upon hitting the real world it was discovered that the dreams of the designers had almost squat to do with the actual live player to player play of the game, which seemed more about "pwning noobs" than exploring a virtual world or playing with lovely toy soldiers painted with care.

[WindupAtheist]

Nor should they. Take off the rose-colored glasses, shitcock. It's time to move on.

Schild, I love the way you enlighten every conversation you enter.  Now go back to playing your fucking mangina CoH toon.  Jubilee 4 life?

[Shockeye]

Nor should they. Take off the rose-colored glasses, shitcock. It's time to move on.

Schild, I love the way you enlighten every conversation you enter.  Now go back to playing your fucking mangina CoH toon.  Jubilee 4 life?

I don't think he plays CoH anymore. Get your facts straight, shitcock.

[schild]

I haven't played CoH since 2 months after launch.

[Raph]

I really have to point out...

- crafting, fishing, housing, localization, mounts, vehicles (boats), pets, books, avatar customization (clothing in UO's case), and even gray shards. Some of this started getting copied while UO was still in beta. Some of it hasn't been fully absorbed today, but will continue to slowly make its way into everyone's games. I am sure others can add to the list.

- SWG is closing in on a million copies sold. This is not "marginally successful."

[schild]

Numbers only speak to the success of a franchise, not the quality of a game.

Look at Halo 2.

Edit: Also, number of copies sold speaks to the amount the press and consumers managed to be brainwashed. SW:G would be a 6 on the richter scale. Halo 2 would be a 15. GTA:SA would fall somewhere inbetween. One of these is not like the other. One of these might be good.

[WindupAtheist]

Well don't get me wrong.  UO was far ahead of it's time in most regards, and I'd push WoW off a cliff to play it right now if they'd quit fagging it up with robots and ninjas.  (Does any other game have mounts that aren't just a new character model plus a speed buff?  I liked having a horse that needed fed and might die.)  However, it's evil reputation kept far too many people from ever experiencing it's good points during those critical early years, and instead sent them marching over to EQ.

As for SWG...  I don't know.  I've been flamed all over these boards for being both a UO fanboy and a Star Wars fanboy, but I could never get into the idea of a Star Wars MMORPG.  I really wish fate had allowed it to be made as UO2, removing the need for anyone to ever give a thought to the nightmare of balancing Jedi.  But you know, to be totally frank, a million boxes is marginal success for a big-money corporate game now that we're living in the age of WoW.  From a strictly financial perspective, WoW is the new UO, and everyone else is Meridian 59.

[Margalis]

SWG is marginally successful in the ways that matter to consumers. Nobody really likes it, it hasn't made a big splash in anyone's conciousness, and it was overhyped and underdelivered. In ten years it will be totally forgotten, with not even a cult following.

From a producer's standpoint the best you can say is that it sold copies and made some money.

[HaemishM]

SWG is closing in on a million copies sold. This is not "marginally successful."

Great, that means it probably made back its production budget on box sales. Are those million copies all copies of the original game, or does that count original game + expansion-only boxes? If that million boxes is not one million original game boxes, i.e. if each of those million boxes allows the person buying it to play the game without having to purchase any other box, ok then.

Now, has it ever had 1 million subscribers? Over 350,000? And I don't mean total subscriptions ever, I mean subscriptions being payed for at one time. Please to give us some actual, tangible subscriber numbers if e-peen measurement is being bandied about.

I believe marginally successful is relevant mainly because of the industry's perception that SWG would be the first million-subscriber MMOG in North America.

[WindupAtheist]

Schild, so far your only contributions to this thread have been:

#1 - "I hated UO!"

Which doesn't mean much, since you hate everything.  You hate UO, you hate the grindy EQ clones that have taken over, and you pretty much hate MMOGs in general.  Your own idea for the "next generation" thereof consisted of taking SWG and adding Magic cards to it, indicating that your thinking on this genre is so far out in left field as to defy meshing with the thoughts of normal humans.

#2 - "Not every game that sells is good!"

Which, let me tell you, is a startling and brilliant revelation in a thread where I'm bitching about how a crappy game (EQ) took over the marketplace.  Please, share more of your sage wisdom.