PvP Rewards made permanent

[Der Helm]

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Honor system reward item’s rank requirement will now be based on a characters highest lifetime rank rather than the character’s current rank.

Good news ? Bad News ?

Discuss ...

[kaid]

I think it is good news. It takes a TON of work to get to the highest ranks to lose your spiffy toys if you ever had to go away from a week sucked most of the fun out of it. Most higher end pvp folks I know were doing the AV instance for AV faction to get those rewards instead of bothering with the PVP rewards they had access to. Their reasoning is they would rather have a lesser item that they can always use than a greater one that they cannot count on.


kaid

[jpark]

I am uncertain what to make of this.

My concern is that the pvp gear is quite good - possibly better than that obtained from instance running.  In theory, everyone can reach a very high pvp rank at one time or another - bestowing upon them the gear that so far as I can see is far superior to pve instance gear.  Does this sound correct?

I would feel more comfortable with this if they toned the pvp gear rewards vs. instances.

Obviously this is a positive change in some ways.  But the net effect concerns me.

What I want to see addressed is the "grouping" for pvp instances which can be much worse than a pve group.  In PvE groups you choose your mates.  But for Warsong, to reduce the wait time, most of us enter the que solo and then group up inside.  This leads to "ghetto" grouping as any idiot can get a "group" in Warsong since technically there is no "invite".

[kaid]

Due to how the honor system works I frankly don't see it as any faster or better option than instance running. To really get to the higher ranks you need to be level 60 for the max honor per kill and you need to devote an astounding ammount of time to pvp.  Yes a worse player who was just stubborn could get these items that they may have trouble getting in an instance. However how many people in a 40 man group are all top notch folks many times you will have a smattering of not so good players who are riding coattails so its the same deal either way.

Hell I racked up something like 300 or so HK last week and I was not able to move up from private to the first real rank yet. Also the more people this change lures to PVP the harder and harder the grind becomes for everybody. It is not a straight you need x kills its you need x more kills than x many people to gain a rank. If people start flocking to PVP gaining ranks becomes GLACIAL especially during summer when the kids can play all freaking day long. If you are in a good guild it would be FAR FAR easier just to run the instances than it would to become a top ranked pvp force high enough to get the good toys.



kaid

[Zane0]

Good, good news.  It takes a lot of damn work to reach the higher ranks anyways.  Also, PvP gear used for high level raids aren't so great anyways, because they're so tooled for stam and pvp abilities; as a priest, I would hesitate to use a lot of the reward gear.  I always saw the rewards as a joke until now- with the time commitment more reasonable, it's far more tempting to get out there for a couple pieces.

EDIT:  Still won't though. I don't have time to wait for Alterac Valley all day!

[El Gallo]

Good news that I can wear my bracers again despite being busted down to 1st sergeant.  Does this mean that you have lifetime access to the officer barracks if you are ever an officer?  If so, I'll bust my ass to gain 2 ranks just so I can buy the potions whenever I want.

[kaid]

I am not positive but I don't think so. You can keep what you already got but I dont' believe you can get back in to the officers quarters to get more.


kaid

[Sogrinaugh]

Is this good news?!?

Your kidding right?

This change is GREAT, though rogues with that uber 2.0 speed dagger will be a fucking nightmare, still shouldn't be to many of them.

Jpark, the most efficient honor-farming route by far is Warsong, and 10-man prefab groups are the best for winning that.  If you get say, 7, your wait time might be very long since you need to be paired with exactly 3 others + the other side.  When you have a full 10, the game just needs to find alliance players in que (of which on my server at least, thier are many).  With 10-man groups, we tend to not wait very long at all (typcially, 2-5 minutes).  I assure you, that good groups will farm honor much quicker then random_fucktard_036751 that waits for you to die so he can grab the flag and return it.

Its just a matter of putting together a tight set that can knock these things out in (preferably) under 15 minutes.  Only time they take longer is when we are up against another (good) guild group.

[jpark]

Also the more people this change lures to PVP the harder and harder the grind becomes for everybody. It is not a straight you need x kills its you need x more kills than x many people to gain a rank.
kaid

Confused.  Ranks are based on percentile standing not absolute numbers so it should not matter if 100 or 10000 players are involved since all the ranks are relative and proportional?  I don't follow your point that more people in pvp makes getting these ranks harder.

Jpark, the most efficient honor-farming route by far is Warsong, and 10-man prefab groups are the best for winning that.  If you get say, 7, your wait time might be very long since you need to be paired with exactly 3 others + the other side.  When you have a full 10, the game just needs to find alliance players in que (of which on my server at least, thier are many).  With 10-man groups, we tend to not wait very long at all (typcially, 2-5 minutes).  I assure you, that good groups will farm honor much quicker then random_fucktard_036751 that waits for you to die so he can grab the flag and return it.

Thanks for this.  I will try queing with preformed 10 man groups.

My buddy has 2 interpretations of this recent change:

1.  Catering to whiners.  Those assholes that ganked and zerged as TM are losing their ranks with Warsong - so this change prevents that by allowing them to keep their loots.  Blizzard is responding to the masses on this point by allowing those early "honor farmers" to retain their work and gear.

2.  Inflation.  This gives level 60's less reason to stick around since they do not need to maintain ranks.  This will lead to more alts and more inflation in the economy.

[XMackenzie]

Most higher end pvp folks I know were doing the AV instance for AV faction to get those rewards instead of bothering with the PVP rewards they had access to. Their reasoning is they would rather have a lesser item that they can always use than a greater one that they cannot count on.

That's what I've been doing mostly lately.  Since BG release it seems I'm right stuck at Knight rank so ninja looting my way to faction seemed like a better option since I wouldn't lose those rewards - any HK's were purely incidental heh.  With this change, maybe I'll try to power up my Contribution points and see if I can't get Knight-Lieutenant boots and gloves at least.    

[Threash]

I am uncertain what to make of this.

My concern is that the pvp gear is quite good - possibly better than that obtained from instance running. 

The only thing thats better than pve stuff is the grand marshall weapons.  60dps 2.0 speed dagger really is better than anything else out there, and i believe so are the other weapons.  The armor sets are slightly worse than their blue/purple counterparts, unless you really really have a hard on for shit loads of stamina at the expence of other stats.

[jpark]

I am uncertain what to make of this.

My concern is that the pvp gear is quite good - possibly better than that obtained from instance running. 

The only thing thats better than pve stuff is the grand marshall weapons.  60dps 2.0 speed dagger really is better than anything else out there, and i believe so are the other weapons.  The armor sets are slightly worse than their blue/purple counterparts, unless you really really have a hard on for shit loads of stamina at the expence of other stats.

Stamina for pvp - yes I do.  The big Shadowbane lesson Stamina > all.

As a priest in Warsong pvp - buffed - my stamina is 185 (level 45 with pvp oriented gear on).  It has to be - since as one of the few priests that actually heal - I am public enemy number 1.

That's encouraging about the Grand Marshal weapons - thanks.

[Merusk]

Also the more people this change lures to PVP the harder and harder the grind becomes for everybody. It is not a straight you need x kills its you need x more kills than x many people to gain a rank.
kaid

Confused.  Ranks are based on percentile standing not absolute numbers so it should not matter if 100 or 10000 players are involved since all the ranks are relative and proportional?  I don't follow your point that more people in pvp makes getting these ranks harder.

Because like any ladder or ranking system, ties are all put into the same tier, then everyone else is bummped-down by that many spaces.   For example in a race if  you have a solo first and second place and a third place tie, the next guy isn't fourth place, he's fifth.   If it were a 4-way tie he's down at seventh because he was seventh best. So you have to get x+1 to get out of the situation where you're bumped downward by all those ties.  The more people in the system the more likelyhood that there's multiple ties above you.   If you had enough HK points to make, say seargent, but there were enough ties to bump-out all the seargent positions, you just wind-up staying at private.

[Paelos]

I think it's great news. It will give more turnover to the high ranks that people were gunning for just for the loot. That's a good thing.

[Threash]

This are the rewards btw:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/rewards-armor.html

I have access to the full blue rogue set, but i only wear three of the pieces.

[schild]

Ya know, the black outlined pictures on that page make the characters look about 500x better. /derail

[SurfD]

Im not sure how I view this, and will probably have to hold my opinion untill Black Wing Lair comes out, so we can compare the new Ubber PvE weapons to the current changed PvP rewards.

[chinslim]

Hmm, seems like a good fix.  The idea of constant rank maintenance turned off alot of players. 

Of course, I haven't PvP'd in over a month and the only useful pvp reward for me is the trinket(yay caster itemization!).  Where I was getting close to the point of having to do "maintenance" pvp to maintain grunt, now I no longer have to =D

[pants]

Im not sure how I view this, and will probably have to hold my opinion untill Black Wing Lair comes out, so we can compare the new Ubber PvE weapons to the current changed PvP rewards.

Thats a good point - everyone is saying OMG - leet PvP gear - its most likely Blackwing will have a nicely mudflated collection of PvE gear as well.

[Samprimary]

No surprise to me. Top ranks were too limited and flighty a domain to be of any real appeal.

[jpark]

I think it's great news. It will give more turnover to the high ranks that people were gunning for just for the loot. That's a good thing.

At the very least it needs more twinking.  I noticed Warsong changed last night.  Folks just want to kill now without really winning capture the flag or playing defensive positions.  They probably need to boost / make more visible the honor obtained for strategic victories (flag capture wins) over individual kill credits.

[jpark]

Ya know, the black outlined pictures on that page make the characters look about 500x better. /derail

El Gallo's quote in WUA sig <-------------
"Schild crying because WoW shrunk his e-penis is not newsworthy."  --  El Gallo

 

[Margalis]

There was a 100% chance this would happen. The old system would never have survived when enough people made top rank then lost their shit and started complaining. And honestly, the system was stupid.

[Threash]

People still seem to think this items are easier to get than pve items.  Thats FAR from the case.  Let me use myself as an example since lately ive been letting out my inner catass.  I am currently rank 10.  I've been rank 10 for the last three weeks.  During the last three weeks i earned 110k, 85k, and 98k cps which put me in the top 15-12th every week.  I'm still rank 10, i expect to still be rank 10 next week and i don't expect to see epic items for at least a month or more if i can keep the pace.  The first week of BGs i played around 12 hours a day, it wasn't good enough to break the top 10.  Not even as a rogue, not even getting the top in most BGs i played.  I could join an MC guild and have a full set alot easier and in alot less time raiding a few nights a week a few hours a night than pvping all god damn fucking day, winning alterac valley after alterac valley fight and not gaining rank.  Those rank 14 weapons deserve to be the best weapons in the game because it takes a shit load more individual effort to get them, but of course the pve catasses don't want people who dont join uber guilds to have uber loot.

[MrHat]

Still hard to make Grand Marshall though, since you have to get a certain # of points per week right? Since every week your points are reset?

[Paelos]

1.6 will add a bar that will at least give you an idea of where you are in rank in a visual sense.

[jpark]

Still hard to make Grand Marshall though, since you have to get a certain # of points per week right? Since every week your points are reset?

This is my interpretation:  they must use some weighted average of your kills over the past X weeks in determining your rank.  So kills you did 6 weeks ago do not count as heavily as kills you did last week.  And of course all of this is relative so over time, each successive person to get grand marshal gear will have a harder time unless there is a steep drop in the player base in Warsong.

Observation:  I attained Scout.  But the following week went to Grunt, with very little additional pvp and my numeric rank slipped (from about 190 to 210 or some such).  I think the added people just starting with poor kill records made me look better even though I had not put in additional effort.

Not sure I like what I see in Warsong - people, like in TM, are ignoring strategic objectives and focusing on kills.  This leads to the obsolesence of support classes and tanks on the battlefield.

[Calantus]

There was a post from a Euro CM (why the fuck do they get helpful info from their CMs? I didn't think CMs did that) that basically said it compares your standing from last week with your standing from this week and gves you a new standing somewhere in the middle.

On the plus side, getting a full set of blue honor rewards is now worth doing. I don't know if I'd ever get a purple, but I do think I could get the full set of blue gear and maybe even pick up an honor mount.