Great Arcane/Fire Mage gank video

[Triforcer]

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=1035

Catchy soundtrack, and shows the power of my preferred build...the 31/20 arcane/fire Mage.  This guy obviously has an FPS background.  Long live three-shotting!

[SurfD]

god damn fuckit, I am SOOO re-speccing tomorrow.  11arcane/30 fire is broke after watching that.  Guess I will join the rest of the mage legions and become a cookie cutter powergamer spec.

Sigh.

[Threash]

Catchy song.  There was alot of skill involved there, not just the spec or the class.

[SurfD]

I can sort of guess what his arcane spec would have been, but it makes me wonder, what fire talents did he take?

fairly certain he had:
Improved Fireball 5
Ignite 5
Impact (at least 1 cause i saw him stunning people, but likely up to 3)
Incinerate 2 (more chance for crit strikes)
Imoroved fireblast (hard to say, but i am pretty sure his fireblast was recycling fast enough to warrent at least 4)
Pyroblast (obviously)

I am going to guess he would skip burning soul completely, since he seems to completely ignore the need for resisting interupts on fire spells.

[SurfD]

Catchy song.  There was alot of skill involved there, not just the spec or the class.

While this is true, no non PoM/AP spec mage out there could match the burst damage of that AP, Fireball, Fireblast, PoM, Pyroblast, Fireblast combo he liked to wip out.

Edit: Watched a few more vids, seems I have been neglecting the importance of Scortch.  God i suck at PVP

[Triforcer]

I can sort of guess what his arcane spec would have been, but it makes me wonder, what fire talents did he take?

fairly certain he had:
Improved Fireball 5
Ignite 5
Impact (at least 1 cause i saw him stunning people, but likely up to 3)
Incinerate 2 (more chance for crit strikes)
Imoroved fireblast (hard to say, but i am pretty sure his fireblast was recycling fast enough to warrent at least 4)
Pyroblast (obviously)

I am going to guess he would skip burning soul completely, since he seems to completely ignore the need for resisting interupts on fire spells.

The standard spec among most mages I know is 5 Improved Fireball, 5 Ignite, 5 Impact, 2 Flame Throwing, 1 Pyroblast, and 2 incinerate.  Getting those stuns up to 10% is absolutely key.  I just don't think improved fireblast is worth it. 

That being said there are some very good scorch-centered mages out there that do go more for incinerate, burning soul, etc.

[Jobu]

I didn't know mages had 1K damage fireballs that they can cast... WHILE RUNNING! Eep.

Impressive how he switched between toolbars as he was fighting for his different spells. And his blinks were expertly timed.

[Threash]

They have a talent that lets them cast their next spell instantly, but its only once every few minutes.  Still makes that whole poly, slow fireball, instant fireball combo extremely good.

[SurfD]

I didn't know mages had 1K damage fireballs that they can cast... WHILE RUNNING! Eep.

Impressive how he switched between toolbars as he was fighting for his different spells. And his blinks were expertly timed.

yeah, with Presence of Mind, you  can make any spell with less then 10 second cast and instant.  and Pyroblast (if i get a crit on it,) routinely crits for around 1200-1400 damage on my mage (+ an additional 40% over 4 seconds :P) bringing that up to nearly 2k damage in roughly 4 seconds.

[Rasix]

Man, what a badass.  Reminds me of how a friend played AC2.  He made a video (back before they were popular) of his Tumerok healer just destroying person after person in rapid succession (of course, AC2 was a joke in the balance department). 

This is probably the only PVP video that has really impressed me.   The rogue ones aren't usually against such relenting pressure and it's not impressive to see a gank class maul a bunch of people AFK fishing.  It would have been a little better though if the majority of people he fought in that video didn't react like complete tards.

Too bad rolling a mage was like #4 on my list after shaman/druid/warrior at launch.  It would have been nice if something in my brain clicked and realized just what staggering damage potential combined with utility a mage has.   Fuck, our group of shaman/shaman/mage probably would have been even better with 2 mages.

[Triforcer]

This is probably the only PVP video that has really impressed me.   The rogue ones aren't usually against such relenting pressure and it's not impressive to see a gank class maul a bunch of people AFK fishing.  It would have been a little better though if the majority of people he fought in that video didn't react like complete tards.

Agreed.  The six alliance in the group pvp scene, in particular, deserve to be shot.  He still did more than most would have been capable of, but some of those people had to be AFK at for most of that encounter.

[sidereal]

It would have been a little better though if the majority of people he fought in that video didn't react like complete tards.

Agreed.  There were also a couple of cases where he clearly died but that got edited out of the video.  The fireball/instant/fireball combo is pretty devastating, but he can obviously only do it once before a long timer wait, so in group on group PvP he'd blow his wad early (and a big heal would clean it up).  He can make a pretty badass video by cherrypicking.

Also, wtf is up with all of the jumping around like a jackhole?  Is he not aware that it's an auto-aim game?  He's obviously a Counterstrike jump-knifer.  Bastard.

[trias_e]

I'm a mage, and I do the jumping thing as well.  I have no idea why...just some weird habit I've picked up.

[SurfD]

I'm a mage, and I do the jumping thing as well.  I have no idea why...just some weird habit I've picked up.

the jumping thing has a lot to do with the fact that regardless of "auto-aim" in the game, bunny hopping around and happening to land behind someone fux them up.

Nothing like winding up for a spell and having someone end up behind you before it goes off, or trying to hit someone who is giveing you "faceing wrong direction" 1 out of every 3 hits.

Plus, its distracting in group PVP when someone might be trying to Mouse Click you to target your character.

[Jayce]

jumping

What he said.  As a warrior it's really hard to keep someone in front of me to land the hits.  A lot of rogues have done it to me as well.

[trias_e]

To tell you the truth, I think I started doing it because of PvE.  I almost always jump around like an idiot after Frost Novaing something, mainly because if I have agro the people in the group need to realize this and I need to draw attention to myself.  It just sort of extended to everything else (I do it whenever I'm relying on instants in ANY situation, whether it be PvP or PvE).

And about his spec:  Yeah, its pretty sick.  30 Fire/21 Arcane is better in my opinion:  You can't get Fire Power dispelled like AP, and its on all the time, and increases mana effenciency.  but 31 Arc/20 Fire IS the 1v1 spec of choice, period.  I personally am 33 fire / 18 arcane, which most people think is gimped compared to those two specs.  However, I'm not into 1v1 PvP as much.  For large scale stuff, combustion blastwave absolutely owns.  And its not like you can't use combustion in 1v1 fights as well!

[sidereal]

What he said.  As a warrior it's really hard to keep someone in front of me to land the hits.  A lot of rogues have done it to me as well.

Fair enough, but don't you move faster and more accurately on the ground?  If I want to stay in someone's rear, I just run straight towards them.  I agree it helps against people who click to target, but holy christ, learn the hotkeys.

[Threash]

I just do it because im a night elf.  Its required of us to jump around like idiots.

[Sogrinaugh]

Arcane Fury vid is iight iimo.  The thing is, this guy is primarly killing people under the influence of Arcane Power, which essentially allows a mage to frontload/manadump quicker.  Pretty much everyone knows about the Poly -> Fireball -> PoM'd Pyro -> Fireblast bit nowdays, and under AP its just 30% more devastating.  Not sayin the man aint got skills, what i am sayin is i find the gameplay of say, Otherguy (sorrow hill vids) more impressive, simply because scortch seems to require alot more interaction with your opponent in terms of footwork, rooting, etc.  As far as i can tell, the primary goal of the AP build is to simply get your Alpha-strike to the point where interaction is minimized, by the time your opponent can do ANYTHING  60%+ of thier hp is already gone, and if you get a crit or Impact proc in thier is GG.

Another problem i have with this vid, is that he doesnt showcase much of the mages hardest matchups (Priests and Druids).  Otherguy answered this critisism soundly in SH4 (several battles vs priests and druids both).

My primary beef with the build is that it leaves you drained after that gankage, and you have around 2 minutes of relative impotence before you're ready to go again.  Sorta rogue-ish, but without the stealth to compensate or allow control of target selection...

Still, for sheer 1v1 pwnage i cant knock the build or the skills.  Could have used abit more footage of opponents actually fighting back and not just standing around like deer in the headlights, tho.

[Sky]

This is why there will never be a casual mmog.

And using "iight" in a serious manner should be bannable imo.

I'm Sky, an asshole, and I approved this message.

[Amp]

Sky seriously if you decide to play again go roll a frost mage if you happen to play alliance.  (Shaman 4tehwin if you play horde)
This fire mage is nothing against a frost mage (and is a pretty fun character to play if you like to take control of a situation with all the snares, burst when you need it,  shielding). Especially if the fire mage stupidly sheeps him first and gives away the surprise shot.  I just noticed last night that we can ice block out of sheep now?  That must be new.  I couldn't do it before, though i'm not sure exactly when it went in.  Still,  it doesn't help when you are surrounded by a sea of red.  You just get to read all the /laughs at you  emotes coming in a little longer.

Now put me against a druid and i'm toast.   I still haven't figured them out yet, but I guess we all have our bane.  That is an evil mage combo he uses but it depends on the class.   As a hunter I could understand your frustration with this game Sky.  I don't see that as one of the strong pvp characters or even very versitile.  To be honest I think they are a boring character.  And when you get to the endgame I don't see many in dungeons.   If you decide to start again roll a caster.  Druids are alot of fun if you don't want to go with the "cookie cutter" mage.

[Sky]

My hunter is a great character, very versatile and enjoyable.

I was talking about the way people discuss tactics, it betrays a dedication that casual players simply will never muster, thus another symptom of why mmogs will always and forever be niche products. I'm about at the point where I've given up on the genre entirely once again. If you don't dedicate that kind of time to tactics and game knowledge, you may as well not play. Guess which one I'm leaning toward.

[Jayce]

If you don't dedicate that kind of time to tactics and game knowledge, you may as well not play.

I guess this depends on your interests.  I'm more casual even than you (to all appearances, because I'm only 51 and have played at least as long as you) , but yet I love following tactics and build discussions. 

I fall into the explorer Bartle type predominantly, though, so I like talking about game mechanics in general.  Even moreso than exercising that knowledge probably (that makes me a Theorycrafter I suppose).

The dedication comes in when instance running and so forth.  If you did nothing but debate tactics and duel around your capital city, you could probably spend less than an hour a day once you hit 60.  That DEFINES casual, to me.

[Triforcer]

Sky seriously if you decide to play again go roll a frost mage if you happen to play alliance.  (Shaman 4tehwin if you play horde)
This fire mage is nothing against a frost mage (and is a pretty fun character to play if you like to take control of a situation with all the snares, burst when you need it,  shielding). Especially if the fire mage stupidly sheeps him first and gives away the surprise shot.  I just noticed last night that we can ice block out of sheep now?  That must be new.  I couldn't do it before, though i'm not sure exactly when it went in.  Still,  it doesn't help when you are surrounded by a sea of red.  You just get to read all the /laughs at you  emotes coming in a little longer.

Now put me against a druid and i'm toast.   I still haven't figured them out yet, but I guess we all have our bane.  That is an evil mage combo he uses but it depends on the class.   As a hunter I could understand your frustration with this game Sky.  I don't see that as one of the strong pvp characters or even very versitile.  To be honest I think they are a boring character.  And when you get to the endgame I don't see many in dungeons.   If you decide to start again roll a caster.  Druids are alot of fun if you don't want to go with the "cookie cutter" mage.

Beating druids is tough...besides priests, its the only class my arc/fire mage has less than a 50% win rate against.  However, I have won against the last several druids I've fought WHEN we see each other at the same time or I ambush him.  The secret in those situations is to not blow the AP POM pyro/fb wad at the beginning.  Get him to 40% ish hp, Improved Counterspell, AP, POM, Pyro and Fireblast and then do something like CoC if you are close or arcane missiles if you aren't.  If you are quick enough, this might kill him before he can get off the instaheal.  Alternatively, if he gets the instaheal off, survive long enough to get him back down to 40%ish hp.  I have no idea how a fire mage or especially a frost mage could ever win this one.

The problem is that GOOD druids will always heal around 60%, and if you counterspell the first one, its really hard to get that last 60% hp unless you are arc/fire and have AP/POM handy- then its heal city.  The only way I ever beat these is through my Goblin Rocket Helmet (where I can bandage/evo potion to full).   

[sidereal]

I was talking about the way people discuss tactics, it betrays a dedication that casual players simply will never muster, thus another symptom of why mmogs will always and forever be niche products. I'm about at the point where I've given up on the genre entirely once again. If you don't dedicate that kind of time to tactics and game knowledge, you may as well not play. Guess which one I'm leaning toward.

I don't understand why that argument would only apply to MMORPGs.  If you read message boards populated by hardcore Diablo 2 or UT2K4 or Civ3 players, they're completely speaking another language, and the tactics are way out of any casual player's league.  And yet these aren't niche products. . the players just self-segregate so great players only play other great players.  If that's the only difference between blockbuster games and niche games, I'm sure you could come up with a mechanic pretty easily that would resolve it.

The problem is that GOOD druids will always heal around 60%

And often.  It's very difficult to prevent a druid from getting multiple full-heals off.  Swiftness gets you one, and between roots, the Tauren stomp, and Barkskin they're likely to be able to grind out at least one more.  Plus any Druid worth his nuts is an Alchemist and has an infinite supply of big healing potions, so that's one more.  Big downside is the DPS.  An Int/Spirit-heavy build just can't do much melee damage.  And a Druid's best damage spell is a slow DoT.  Unless he can double-crit his opening Starfire/Moonfire (for over 1K.  booyah) or reliably root into Starfires, he has to wait for a lot of Moonfires to finish their DoT.

Unless you're low enough and he has enough mana to just ignore the DoT and insta Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire, dead.  But now I'm just gushing.

[Trippy]

My hunter is a great character, very versatile and enjoyable.

I was talking about the way people discuss tactics, it betrays a dedication that casual players simply will never muster, thus another symptom of why mmogs will always and forever be niche products. I'm about at the point where I've given up on the genre entirely once again. If you don't dedicate that kind of time to tactics and game knowledge, you may as well not play. Guess which one I'm leaning toward.

That shouldn't be an issue as long as the game allows you to play solo. And there are plenty of other like-minded people playing these sorts of games so grouping is doable as long as you hook up with the right people.

[Hoax]

I have to say Sky is off his fucking rocker on this one.  I've read allot of casual gamer whines before but that just doesn't make sense.  In any fps there are many servers that will ban people if they suck.  There are ladders where you must join a clan (not solo) in order to participate, also you have to be good to join.

In Rts games, esp those with a matchmaking system w/ rankings (b.net and I think Dawn of War) nobody will play with newbies except those looking for farm them for their own ranking.  I remember when the b.net ladders first came out it was fucking rediculous took 20min to get a game going because everyone had to be happy with the rank/record/race of everyone else.

"If you don't dedicate that kind of time to tactics and game knowledge, you may as well not play. Guess which one I'm leaning toward."

That quote is just stupid, esp if your playing a hunter its not like hunter tactics are confusing 

[Sogrinaugh]

Sky seriously if you decide to play again go roll a frost mage if you happen to play alliance.  (Shaman 4tehwin if you play horde)
This fire mage is nothing against a frost mage (and is a pretty fun character to play if you like to take control of a situation with all the snares, burst when you need it,  shielding). Especially if the fire mage stupidly sheeps him first and gives away the surprise shot.  I just noticed last night that we can ice block out of sheep now?  That must be new.  I couldn't do it before, though i'm not sure exactly when it went in.  Still,  it doesn't help when you are surrounded by a sea of red.  You just get to read all the /laughs at you  emotes coming in a little longer.

Now put me against a druid and i'm toast.   I still haven't figured them out yet, but I guess we all have our bane.  That is an evil mage combo he uses but it depends on the class.   As a hunter I could understand your frustration with this game Sky.  I don't see that as one of the strong pvp characters or even very versitile.  To be honest I think they are a boring character.  And when you get to the endgame I don't see many in dungeons.   If you decide to start again roll a caster.  Druids are alot of fun if you don't want to go with the "cookie cutter" mage.

I dont know if i could disagree with you more.  I went from 1-52 as a frost mage.  It had its moments of uberness (blizzard in sunken temple 4tw) but overall frost leaves you underpowered, particularly in 1v1 pvp, and still slightly underpowered in small-scale group pvp (the 2 most common types of engagements in my experience).  I avoid TM/SS like the festering cancer it is, i dont know if its my 1.7ghz celeron, or my geforce 2, or if its a network issue, but whatever it is, it FUCKING SUCKS.  And that seems to be the only place that a frost mage really shines (mass pvp).

I switched from Frost to arc/fire (going for a scortch full-crit 28/23 build) and its like playing a whole new character.  When reading the posts of others about how UBER OMFG something is, i tend to take it with a grain of salt, since most things in this game are simply a tradeoff and gaining any real advantage is extremely difficult.  So without exagerating to make a point, i will simply state arc/fire feels more powerful in the styles of gameplay i enjoy (small-group questing, small-scale to mid-sized / 1v1 pvp, instancing).  The bottom line for a frost mage is, even tho things like Frost barrier are cool and ice block is indeed teh pwn, your best single-target weapon (frost bolt) takes too long to cast (even when improved).

To me, the useful weapons in pvp are (in order of most frequently/repeatedly employed)
Scorch
Fireblast
Cone of Cold
Frost nova
Arcane Explosion
...
...
Fireball/pyroblast for use when opponent is sheeped, which is much less common now with trinket, or with Presence of Mind (useable once per 3 minutes).
A few other spells get used as situation warrents (rogue vanish outta your frost nova = lvl 1 blizzard, etc)

When you analyze the spells you will most commonly employ, it then makes most sense to enhance those spells the most.  In  my (long) experience with frost, i found things like Shatter very underwhelming, particularly since it seems that blizzard can't crit.  Frost definately has a home in Molten Core, but i haven't completed those quest chains yet, and from what i hear a new raid zone is right around the corner so i cant see spec'ing for one damn instance.

And Sky, i type the way i think/speak, if you dont like it, fuck you.

[Righ]

Frost definately has a home in Molten Core

It seems reasonable to assume that, but in fact it turns out not to be of marginal value there too. Improved Frostbolt, Ice Shards, Piercing Ice are useful talents, but nothing else frost helps much. Fire actually works out better against the trash mobs, which have insignificant resistances, and mages will often be relegated to curse removal at boss encounters, particularly in Horde groups.

[Amp]

I have no idea what a Frost mage is like in MC cause i'm not in a catass guild and will probably never see the place save a random group invite.   I saw random invites for Onxyia last night,  which I'm sure went as wel as our random group to kill Lord Kazzak...

Well I never posted I had an I WIN button on the frost mage.   I never wanted one or I would have went fire like the other million fire mages.
But what I did state is that I eat Fire mages for breakfast.  And I do.  I attack them as soon as I see them whereas now I run from druids (which btw doesn't work).  As a frost mage Shamans are now a 50/50 fight and now that I know how to fight them so are priests...yea even shadow ones.    With the fire resist I have on, dampen magic, and my mage armor along with fire ward my ice barrier and especially ice block, I can waste half your mana bar and not even lose a hp.  I love fighting fire mages.  It's almost an I WIN senario in 1vs1.
In pvp with others I slow the fight down and wear my opponent down.  That's the frost way.  My frostbolt when it crits hits for over 1100, I get 2 cone of colds, 2 ice barriers, 2 ice blocks (though this last patch broke cold snap's cooldown, it's now a crap shoot whether or not your shields get renewed....another wonderful mage bug to add to the list) evo when i'm out of mana which never happens in a 1vs1 because i'm either dead before this or the other guy is, along with the same instant casts as a fire mage including IAE which most classes can't seem to deal with,  a mage jumping around behind them like a little fairy while blasting them to death with  pinkish  magic..
Sure we get gimped in damage (and yes we do)  but you can't kill me so what's the difference.

As far as instances go from what i've seen (which is everything except MC and Onxiya I believe), frost is the way to go.  I have total crowd control and i've never been reduced to a de-curser.  I'd probably hit the leave group button if I was told to only remove curses.  I'm a team player but I play to have fun, not use one spell in my arsenal.  Having the title taxiing vendor machine is bad enough, I will not remove curses from people.  Fuck I don't even remove them in 5 man groups unless i'm asked.  I am a damage dealer and crowd controller.   Give me dispel magic and give the priest remove curse the way it should really be.  My class was not meant to pay attention to curses.  The fact mages have that remove curse spell makes no sense unless you tie it to the Warlock being our opposite.  In which case thier detect Invisible makes no sense  cause we mages don't have invis anymore.  So send the remove curse over to the priest like it should be and give me my dispel magic.


I should respec to fire/arcane and try it out.  I've played frost all 60 levels (never bothered with shatter myself)..  But I really enjoy the frost strategy and my crowd control abilities.    Plus all my gear is frost damage oriented so i'd have to go shopping.

[Sky]

And Sky, i type the way i think/speak, if you dont like it, fuck you.

Yo, peace homey. Don't h8 da playa.

If you ain't black, you're a pretentious douchebag using urban slang. If you are black, I apologize for poking fun at your cultural handicap. G.

[Rasix]

Who goddamn cares? He's using punctuation and capitalizaiton and has an actual grasp of the quote system. 

Quit being a fucking douche.

[chinslim]

You can get along fine even in the uber instances(MC/Onyxia) with base abilities, so fire mages do fine.  But ice block allows you extra survivability - you can be the Garr puller, and you can survive imp trains and Baron Geddon's 'living bomb'.

Ice mages do better in group or raid PvP because of ice block + frost snap.  They're a pain in the butt for assist trains to finish off quickly, buying plenty of time for their group to grab the initiative.

[Calantus]

Fuck I don't even remove them in 5 man groups unless i'm asked.  I am a damage dealer and crowd controller.

The second a relevant debuff hits someone it should be taken off by someone who can remove it. It takes a key press and a mouse click to (attempt to) remove a debuff, and watching your party frame is not exactly challenging. Seriously, there are a number of tools in the mage arsenal, if you fail to use any one of them in an appropriate manner you get the kick. Plenty more mages out there who can AoE/Nuke/Poly/Decurse/CS as needed.

Also... never go to MC, you WILL be told "just remove curses" on certain fights.